Advice please! Low Test and Kaiser Endo is no help!

[goldenboy33]

Hello,

I am 36 and have all the typical symptoms of low test. My primary care physician at Kaiser sent me for lab work and all three tests have come back low. He referred me to the Endo and the Endo seems to think my Test is normal. Quote from Endo, "Your testosterone levels are normal. Take care." Here are the results of my tests:

11/22/10
TESTOSTERONE , TOTAL 277 > 245- ng/dL

01/11/11
TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL 174 > 220- ng/dL
LH 2.3 1.0-12.0 mIU/mL
PROLACTIN 6 2-18 ng/mL
TSH 1.52 0.10-5.50 uIU/mL

01/24/11
TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL 237 > 220- ng/dL

Instead of wasting my time arguing with the Endo, I figured need to go the AA route. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I live in Nor Cal, but would be willing to do the out of state thing. Thanks.

[goldenboy33]

Ok. I know someone must have some advice for me. I just spoke to a AA clinic in Fl and it just seemed too easy. They wanted to send me to get blood work done today, locally ($200). They would have my results in 48hrs. Based on the results, they would write a script, about $600/10 weeks. Does this sound reasonable? I'm just having a hard time giving my credit card to a clinic I found online and not knowing if anybody else has had any positive or negative experience with them. Any refferals would be appreciated.

[Times Roman]

Hello,

I am 36 and have all the typical symptoms of low test. My primary care physician at Kaiser sent me for lab work and all three tests have come back low. He referred me to the Endo and the Endo seems to think my Test is normal. Quote from Endo, "Your testosterone levels are normal. Take care." Here are the results of my tests:

11/22/10
TESTOSTERONE , TOTAL 277 > 245- ng/dL

01/11/11
TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL 174 > 220- ng/dL
LH 2.3 1.0-12.0 mIU/mL
PROLACTIN 6 2-18 ng/mL
TSH 1.52 0.10-5.50 uIU/mL

01/24/11
TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL 237 > 220- ng/dL

Instead of wasting my time arguing with the Endo, I figured need to go the AA route. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I live in Nor Cal, but would be willing to do the out of state thing. Thanks.

What part of NCal? I eventually went to one in Sacto.
I notice you don't have a free test taken yet?
It's all about coming up with a winning story and selling it to a doctor. I was successful where others may have failed with Kaiser.

PM me if you need some detail

[goldenboy33]

Bay Area. For whatever reason they didn't think is was necessary to test the free testosterone . I guess I could try selling it to my docter, but wanted to check out other avenues. I would appreciate it if you can PM me some details. I don't have enough posts to PM. Thanks.

[zaggahamma]

if u got the money i'd go the AA clinic route...you already got ran around like a chicken w/ his head cut off...MOTHER FVCKERS....i heard kaiser was hard to deal with....the AA clinic should be able to use those 3 labs you have done already and there u can save at least the 200...if they dont...theyre definately is.....get your post count up...go over to the lounge and whore up or find a few threads that interest u and u can comment in AND whore up...there are quite a few guys that are using the clinics that can recommend a couple

[goldenboy33]

The Kaiser Endo is an a-hole. Tried to say I needed anti-depressants. The AA clinic I talked to wanted their own labs. Mine are pretty basic and didn't test for E2 or free Test. I'll do some more research before choosing a clinic. They seem legit, but you never know.

[Far from massive]

Just do a search on TRT or HRT clinics. Your test scores are borderline for a 60 yr old man, clearly at your age they are way low. Anyone who would not help you with those test scores has only one thing in mind minimizing short term expenses at the cost of patient welfare. I would suggest you stay away from the real subgrade steroid dispensaries parading as HRT clinics and utilizing "Off Label" usage of things like Deca , Stanazol, HGH etc. while it will be a fun ride for a while you will endanger your long term health and in your circumstance there is no reason why any legit clinic would refuse you treatment.

Good luck,

FFM

PS I would not take my dog to Kaiser!

[zaggahamma]

The Kaiser Endo is an a-hole. Tried to say I needed anti-depressants. The AA clinic I talked to wanted their own labs. Mine are pretty basic and didn't test for E2 or free Test. I'll do some more research before choosing a clinic. They seem legit, but you never know.

that should be criminal....that FVCKING steams me to no end man

[bass]

Kaiser sucks! go with the clinic. is the $600 for the initial script? i am assuming it is and its a good price if it includes other compounds and supplies.

[goldenboy33]

Kaiser sucks big time! I had Health Net before and my primary care prescribed Androgel , but he didn't treat me for long until my dumb ass switched to Kaiser. I guess you get what you pay for! My blood work and symptoms clearly indicate I need TRT, but the Endo denies anything is wrong. They are willing to treat my "depression" though. I think the $600 includes Test, HCG and AI. I found the clinic by googling HRT/TRT, but just don't want to get scammed.

[dosXX]

You need to drop Kaiser.

[goldenboy33]

I'm going to, but have to wait until open enrollment.

[SlimmerMe]

The Kaiser Endo is an a-hole. Tried to say I needed anti-depressants. The AA clinic I talked to wanted their own labs. Mine are pretty basic and didn't test for E2 or free Test. I'll do some more research before choosing a clinic. They seem legit, but you never know.

yea...my AA doc tried pulling that punch with me and I convinced him to use the lab work I had on my own if he would simply interpret them so he could feel he got paid for SOMETHING instead of consultation + padding the BW lab test.....so you might try that approach....

[LeanGreenMachine]

Wow, the AA docs are really raping and pillaging! I wonder if they eat their dead too. I switched to an AA clinic here in South Florida that charges a fraction of that. Same price as goldenboy found in FL.

The problem is that you need to know what you are doing with this shit or you can get in trouble. The AA docs take the worry out of haveing to study and learn everything all at once. I started out with an AA doc that was charging me out the ass, but now that I have educated myself (somewhat), I can pretty much go it on my own. My only problem now is getting the labs bc my insurance has denied my claims... sucks! I will have to pay them out of pocket now $$$.

I am going to check this place out next time (hope this link is ok) http://www.privatemdlabs.com
They have the Hormone Panel for Males for $169 (thats 1/10th of Lab Corp).

[goldenboy33]

Maybe I will call back and see if they will use my current lab work. I am still wondering if this AA is legit though. Any referrals would be helpful. I already googled HRT, TRT, Susanne Somers etc and found some clinics.

[bass]

Wow, the AA docs are really raping and pillaging! I wonder if they eat their dead too. I switched to an AA clinic here in South Florida that charges a fraction of that. Same price as goldenboy found in FL.

The problem is that you need to know what you are doing with this shit or you can get in trouble. The AA docs take the worry out of haveing to study and learn everything all at once. I started out with an AA doc that was charging me out the ass, but now that I have educated myself (somewhat), I can pretty much go it on my own. My only problem now is getting the labs bc my insurance has denied my claims... sucks! I will have to pay them out of pocket now $$$.

I am going to check this place out next time (hope this link is ok) http://www.privatemdlabs.com
They have the Hormone Panel for Males for $169 (thats 1/10th of Lab Corp).

thats who i use, but this one seems to have better prices! http://www.preventivelabs.com/

[The Toad]

Wow, the AA docs are really raping and pillaging! I wonder if they eat their dead too. I switched to an AA clinic here in South Florida that charges a fraction of that. Same price as goldenboy found in FL.

The problem is that you need to know what you are doing with this shit or you can get in trouble. The AA docs take the worry out of haveing to study and learn everything all at once. I started out with an AA doc that was charging me out the ass, but now that I have educated myself (somewhat), I can pretty much go it on my own. My only problem now is getting the labs bc my insurance has denied my claims... sucks! I will have to pay them out of pocket now $$$.

I am going to check this place out next time (hope this link is ok) http://www.privatemdlabs.com
They have the Hormone Panel for Males for $169 (thats 1/10th of Lab Corp).

Look in the upper right of their homepage, you can do a 1 question survey for 15% off. Just did it, that test came to $144.

[goldenboy33]

So I sent an e-mail to my Endo telling him I disagree with his diagnosis. He told me I have every right to disagree but would still not write a script. He is sending me for a second opinion with another Kaiser Endo. My BW speaks for itself, but is there anythig else I can do or say to persuade the new Endo to write me a script? Moreover, a script for injections instead of gel or cream? This is my last try with Kaiser before I go to a clinic or self prescribe.

[Shol'va]

So I sent an e-mail to my Endo telling him I disagree with his diagnosis. He told me I have every right to disagree but would still not write a script. He is sending me for a second opinion with another Kaiser Endo. My BW speaks for itself, but is there anythig else I can do or say to persuade the new Endo to write me a script? Moreover, a script for injections instead of gel or cream? This is my last try with Kaiser before I go to a clinic or self prescribe.

I'm a little suspicious of him sending you to another endo of his choice not yours. But if you go tell the endo that you have no libido anymore and that you are real moody and depressed and have been gaining weight. All typical of of Low-T. I would recommend going online and checking out if kaiser has anymore endos in your area you can see. If they do, call around and find one who prescribes shots for patients diagnosed with low-T, then make anappointment. Where theres a will theres a way.

[SlimmerMe]

^^^ good advice

[zaggahamma]

agree..if u can go wherever you want i would call around and choose one yourself....good luck...hate for another pos endo collect another 200 dollars for doing shiat

[JohnnyVegas]

I wouldn't use any doctor that doesn't insist on doing his own labs. That is the only way the doctor can ensure you aren't cheating, and I have no use for a doctor that just wants to sell me meds, because "sales" is the opposite goal to "health."

Having said that, your situation sucks...good luck!

[goldenboy33]

Unfortuneatly Kaiser is its own entity. Own lab, own pharmacy etc. Hopefully not all doctors with Kaiser have the same brain or lack thereof. I am hoping the new Endo recognizes my deficiency and treats me accordingly. I am not going to hold my breath though. I don't understand why they want to do BW in the morning when your T is at its peak? If its low in the morning, its even lower mid-afternoon. You think they would want to test the T levels at their lowest so your in the "normal" range all day. Anyway, I will see how it goes. I found a local AA clinic that charges $425 for the first one hour appointment and will prorate if it doesn't last an hour. They have reasonable lab prices and its $25 and injection each week.

[Shol'va]

Hopefully it wont come to that. I truly dont understand any Endo saying you are in the normal range at your age. I'm also trying ti understand those tests. Did you have blood drawn three different times for those results? Either way they are all low in my opinion. If you were up around 500 or so I'd say they were right but you ar no where near that. I know guys older then you with those totals that their endo's put them on test right away. Now there a bunch of horn dogs. And some really did have depression issues and that seemed to clear up also. Like I've said I'm no doc but from what the older guys at the gym have told me about their experiences I'm just passing on to you. you also need to realize though that if you go into the office looking or even acting like a bodybuilder, that will raise a red flag with the doc. Wear loose clothes with long sleeves, etc

[goldenboy33]

Those are 3 seperate tests. I also had one about a year prior that was low as well. That is a good point. I will be sure to wear loose clothing etc. I'm nowhere near a bodybuilder, but do have some muscle mass on me. I guess this time I will just have act the part even though I shouldn't have to and reiterate all of my symptoms and how is affecting every aspect of my life. Hopefully, if he writes me a script, I can talk him into injections.

[sierrahiker]

My initial experience with a Kaiser Endo was absolutely disastrous. The guy was a total disgrace and said a 213 T. level was fine for someone in their 40's. I finally changed to my primary care physician at Kaiser. He will not allow me to self-inject and I have to go in once a week for my shot. My dose is 120 a week currently, but I have gone up to 150 mgs weekly and that gets my numbers too high (1200+ and it's not "right" for me, it's too high).

Right now I'm at 901 on 120 mgs. a week and feel great.

The Endo's at Kaiser seem to be TERRIBLE across the board. But the PCP's can be reasonable if you can demonstrate consistently low blood tests below 300. Good luck!

[zaggahamma]

My initial experience with a Kaiser Endo was absolutely disastrous. The guy was a total disgrace and said a 213 T. level was fine for someone in their 40's. I finally changed to my primary care physician at Kaiser. He will not allow me to self-inject and I have to go in once a week for my shot. My dose is 120 a week currently, but I have gone up to 150 mgs weekly and that gets my numbers too high (1200+ and it's not "right" for me, it's too high).

Right now I'm at 901 on 120 mgs. a week and feel great.

The Endo's at Kaiser seem to be TERRIBLE across the board. But the PCP's can be reasonable if you can demonstrate consistently low blood tests below 300. Good luck!

this is good news....sad for the rep of the kaiser endo's ....SHAME...i can only wish bad things for ppl who dont care/follow the oath/USE THEIR BRAINS!

good numbers bro...good for you...hope it continues

[goldenboy33]

Thanks for the info! Maybe I will just talk to my primary care again who noticed my levels were on the low range of "normal" in the first place and referred me to the Endo. I will just tell him the Endo is not willing to treat me and my quality of life is in the toilet.

[Shol'va]

If you truly want to go the injection route which is by far the best way and need some ammo to help convince the doc to put you on it instead of the androgel then read my post #12 on the other thread titled TRT Question started by stevo a few spaces below here...

[sierrahiker]

To clarify, the Kaiser Endo put me on Androgel (4 puny swipes a day, but I used 10 a day becase they gave me more than the prescription called for). The Androgel got my numbers up to 800+ for 4 months and I felt great. But then I crashed down to 113 on the stuff. I literally felt like I was a 90 year old man.

The Endo refused to do anything about it. So I went to my Kaiser PCP and he put me on shots because, as he told me, "A level of 113 is inconsistent with life."

So Kaiser Endo's are useless, but your PCP can help you, as long as you've seen an Endo in their system and they have that on record.

[Jadam]

Every time I mentioned my symptoms to Kaiser they wanted to give me some Prozac. It was so frustrating. I finally went to a clinic to get some help. Been good since, but now I ditched Kaiser and hoping to find a regular doc locally.

Good luck, man!

[goldenboy33]

So here is an update to my quest for Kaiser to treat my low T. Since the first Endo said, "Your T levels (174-277) are normal. Take care", I asked my primary care if he could just treat me and he said, "Unfortunately, I am not trained adequately for hormone supplementation as this is something the endocrinologists do". So I had an second opinion with and Endo and he did more BW including my free T. Before I got my BW back, I got an e-mail from my primary care wanting to test me for sleep apnea, as this could be the cause of my fatique. This whole ordeal is frustrating, yet comical. These doctors are idiots! They keep telling me about all the side effects of T. I asked my doctor if he knows the side effects of aspirin! Touche. I haven't gotten my free T results back but my total T was 161! Hopefully, this will help pull their heads out of their A@#!

TESTOSTERONE , TOTAL 161 > 220- ng/dL

[zaggahamma]

So here is an update to my quest for Kaiser to treat my low T. Since the first Endo said, "Your T levels (174-277) are normal. Take care", I asked my primary care if he could just treat me and he said, "Unfortunately, I am not trained adequately for hormone supplementation as this is something the endocrinologists do". So I had an second opinion with and Endo and he did more BW including my free T. Before I got my BW back, I got an e-mail from my primary care wanting to test me for sleep apnea, as this could be the cause of my fatique. This whole ordeal is frustrating, yet comical. These doctors are idiots! They keep telling me about all the side effects of T. I asked my doctor if he knows the side effects of aspirin! Touche. I haven't gotten my free T results back but my total T was 161! Hopefully, this will help pull their heads out of their A@#!

TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL 161 > 220- ng/dL

hopefully but a lot like the smell o their own shiat

[beeazy]

What part of NCal? I eventually went to one in Sacto.
I notice you don't have a free test taken yet?
It's all about coming up with a winning story and selling it to a doctor. I was successful where others may have failed with Kaiser.

PM me if you need some detail

What office in Sacramento?

[goldenboy33]

Well I got the results back from the latest BW. My total T seems low, but free T seems to be ok. I know free T is very important, but I am a little confused why my total T is low?????

[goldenboy33]

Oops! Here are the lab results:

TESTOSTERONE , TOTAL 246 250-1100 ng/dL
TESTOSTERONE FREE 65.9 35.0-155.0 pg/mL

FYI-Kaiser said they sent the blood sample to another lab to test free T. One lab had my total T at 161 and the other at 246. WTF?

[zaggahamma]

Oops! Here are the lab results:

TESTOSTERONE , TOTAL 246 250-1100 ng/dL
TESTOSTERONE FREE 65.9 35.0-155.0 pg/mL

FYI-Kaiser said they sent the blood sample to another lab to test free T. One lab had my total T at 161 and the other at 246. WTF?

sounds like they paid to have the 161 changed to a 246

if youre stuck with kaiser insurance wise i would bite the bullet and pay cash somewhere