Update

[G.P.]

From my old thread http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?447723-Labs

I tried the 200mg inj every other week & felt great for about 6 or 7 days then downhill. I split the dose up to 100mg per week which let me avoid the crash but the dose wasn't nearly high enough.

I was on this for 3 months before I went back in to see endo. After talking to her she was going to put me on 200mg weekly but wanted to double check. Well this other doc comes in & says that test cyp lasts 2+ weeks in the body & it doesn't peak until about day 10 so I had no reason to crash after a week. He's the type that won't listen to anyone else. I don't know where he gets his research from.

Anyway he took me off inj completely & gave me 5mg patches to try. Those were worthless. After the first week I called back & told him they were shit. He said they have a 2mg patch I could add to it so I told him not to bother, I was going to start using 2 of the 5mg patches per day. I've been doing that for about 6 weeks so I can say I gave it an honest try.

I've had labs done 3 more times during over the last 5 months. The last set of labs while I was on patches actually showed a lower test level then before I started any trt.

So I go back to the endo at the end of March & they agreed to put me back on injections but are still arguing over needing it weekly & the dosage. I told him if I'm self injecting it shouldn't matter if I split the dose & inject weekly if that's what works for me. I asked to see the endo I saw the first time since this guy's obviously an idiot by not even being willing to discuss the possibility that he may be misinformed.

We will see soon. Keeping my fingers crossed for 400mg bi-weekly so I can do the 200mg a week.

[bass]

thats bunch of shit! i can't believe this so called doc is playing with your health. put your foot down and bitch about it until they listen, sounds to me the female doc is smarter than him! the patches are shit just like you described, never used them but heard enough to stay away from them. my family doc offered gel and i turned it down. injection is the only way to go. best of luck to you, i hope you get the weekly dose at 200mgs, this seems to be the magic number for many of us on TRT.

[zaggahamma]

so, y did you start a new thread? lol

wow, sorry about the mystery doctor looking over that gals shoulders sounds like she was one of the ones without the God complex
put on androgel after injections...this maybe a first and to sit there and say that it peaks at day 10 when the fvking insert in the fvcking bottle clearly shows day 4/5

...explain why the 100 a week wasnt high enough...what was different than the 200 thru day 6 and 7????

[zaggahamma]

.............

[GotNoBlueMilk]

...explain why the 100 a week wasnt high enough...what was different than the 200 thru day 6 and 7????

I wonder if 100 a week wasn't giving him a high enough spike, and it was only during the high spike period from 200 every other week that he felt good.

[zaggahamma]

I wonder if 100 a week wasn't giving him a high enough spike, and it was only during the high spike period from 200 every other week that he felt good.

yeh thats interesting

bump for op

[G.P.]

guess I could have used original post but it was a few months old. When I inj 200mg I felt better each day until about day 6 or 7 then slow taper down to about day 10-12. That left me with a few days of feeling like crap waiting for the next inj.

When I split the dose 100mg per week there wasn't any roller coaster but I didnt get quite the punch that the 200 gave me. I felt ok with that but would much rather have the feeling I had with 200mg on a steady basis. Maybe it's partly all in my head but I felt a distinct difference within 48 hrs between the 100 & 200.

Going off all the bloodwork, 200mg weekly would put me in the upper part of the normal range for my age but not out of range high, so I feel like that's what I should get if the doc can't give me a legit reason for not going with that dose.

I'll let you know what happens after my next appt on the 25th. It's funny to me that the female endo agreed that more frequent shots are better but they can only prescribe bi-weekly because that's the VA protocol. I'll be happy just getting back on injections & having the freedom to self inject regardless of the dose. At least that will put me in a position to push for the desired dose now that I know which endo to request as my primary.

[zaggahamma]

guess I could have used original post but it was a few months old. When I inj 200mg I felt better each day until about day 6 or 7 then slow taper down to about day 10-12. That left me with a few days of feeling like crap waiting for the next inj.

When I split the dose 100mg per week there wasn't any roller coaster but I didnt get quite the punch that the 200 gave me. I felt ok with that but would much rather have the feeling I had with 200mg on a steady basis. Maybe it's partly all in my head but I felt a distinct difference within 48 hrs between the 100 & 200.

Going off all the bloodwork, 200mg weekly would put me in the upper part of the normal range for my age but not out of range high, so I feel like that's what I should get if the doc can't give me a legit reason for not going with that dose.

I'll let you know what happens after my next appt on the 25th. It's funny to me that the female endo agreed that more frequent shots are better but they can only prescribe bi-weekly because that's the VA protocol. I'll be happy just getting back on injections & having the freedom to self inject regardless of the dose. At least that will put me in a position to push for the desired dose now that I know which endo to request as my primary.

Theyre def not gonna change from 200 e2w to 200ew....either deal with the lack of punch at 100ew or maybe 125/150 ew would be more likely but i completely understand what you mean and only you know if it was in your head or not...

what are you seeing gain wise these 5 months on trt? i dont see u mention other than feeling fine...do you lift/exercise..what else can u share

[G.P.]

*edit* also just to let you know the doc that put me on the patches said they were far superior to injections. His reason was the VA likes to start with the cheapest way first and injections are the cheapest. He said he would never recommend injections if it were up to him.

[zaggahamma]

*edit* also just to let you know the doc that put me on the patches said they were far superior to injections. His reason was the VA likes to start with the cheapest way first and injections are the cheapest. He said he would never recommend injections if it were up to him.

we've already determined he is a douche licker

[G.P.]

No they won't go to every week due to VA protocol. The way I said it may have been misleading. What the female endo said when I spoke to her on the phone was they could up my dose of 200mg eow to ??? eow.
That's when we had the discussion about more frequent injections being better and was basically said without being said that since I was self injecting I could do ew.
It sounds like she may be looking at 300mg eow for 3 months & then more bloodwork to see where I am & where we would go from there. I understand they most likely won't just double my dose & it may take several more months to get to where I want to be or feel I need to be.

[zaggahamma]

No they won't go to every week due to VA protocol. The way I said it may have been misleading. What the female endo said when I spoke to her on the phone was they could up my dose of 200mg eow to ??? eow.
That's when we had the discussion about more frequent injections being better and was basically said without being said that since I was self injecting I could do ew.
It sounds like she may be looking at 300mg eow for 3 months & then more bloodwork to see where I am & where we would go from there. I understand they most likely won't just double my dose & it may take several more months to get to where I want to be or feel I need to be.

explain

[G.P.]

I exercise 6 days a week. Weights mon/wed/fri, cardio tue/thurs/sat, & usually like to do 15 min of cardio for a warm up on weight days. I'm not gaining anywhere near what I would on a cycle, but don't expect to, so I've been happy with the gains I was making. I was experiencing faster fat loss the first few months as well. Since I've been on the patches my workouts have gone downhill & currently I'm just in a "maintenance" mode trying to keep the fat off & keep the gains I've made. I keep a moderately strict diet & easily pass the military PT test. Even though I weigh in at 32 lbs over my height/age limit, I pass the tape test easily with about 8% to spare.

I'm 41 yrs old & after starting TRT using injections I felt like I did when I was in my early 30's as far as workout levels & energy as well as libido & generally feeling good about myself. I'm not chasing the dream of being 18 again, but I think I can get to a moderately better level. I view TRT as about 25% of the equation & diet/exercise as about 75% of it.

[G.P.]

explain

I expect them to be conservative in upping the dose & doing plenty of bloodwork on a regular basis. I'm fine with that. They like to do things in 90 day blocks so if 300mg eow isn't ideal & 400mg eow is, then it will be at least 6 months before I get there.

[JohnnyVegas]

300mg EOW (150mg/week when you self inject) may do you just fine. Many people do well on 100 a 150mg per week. Take it with a smile if they offer it to you, and don't even mention weekly versus EOW. Just handle that on your own. Anything to get you off this rollercoaster you are on.

I know you are looking for "punch" but feelings aren't as accurate as blood tests. If they get you on a realistic dose for three months and do bloodwork, you will really know where you are at. Then starts round two, or is five, of arguing about the dose.

[flatscat]

Great questions and answers on this thread. Details sure help out. Hope you get to where you want to be GP.

[zaggahamma]

yes thanks gp and best of continued success

[The Toad]

I exercise 6 days a week. Weights mon/wed/fri, cardio tue/thurs/sat, & usually like to do 15 min of cardio for a warm up on weight days. I'm not gaining anywhere near what I would on a cycle, but don't expect to, so I've been happy with the gains I was making. I was experiencing faster fat loss the first few months as well. Since I've been on the patches my workouts have gone downhill & currently I'm just in a "maintenance" mode trying to keep the fat off & keep the gains I've made. I keep a moderately strict diet & easily pass the military PT test. Even though I weigh in at 32 lbs over my height/age limit, I pass the tape test easily with about 8% to spare.

I'm 41 yrs old & after starting TRT using injections I felt like I did when I was in my early 30's as far as workout levels & energy as well as libido & generally feeling good about myself. I'm not chasing the dream of being 18 again, but I think I can get to a moderately better level. I view TRT as about 25% of the equation & diet/exercise as about 75% of it.

I agree, but i think TRT lets you get the most out of the diet/exercise. Before I went on TRT it seemed like I had to work my butt off just to stay even, and sometimes that didn't work.

[GotNoBlueMilk]

I exercise 6 days a week. Weights mon/wed/fri, cardio tue/thurs/sat, & usually like to do 15 min of cardio for a warm up on weight days. I'm not gaining anywhere near what I would on a cycle, but don't expect to, so I've been happy with the gains I was making. I was experiencing faster fat loss the first few months as well. Since I've been on the patches my workouts have gone downhill & currently I'm just in a "maintenance" mode trying to keep the fat off & keep the gains I've made. I keep a moderately strict diet & easily pass the military PT test. Even though I weigh in at 32 lbs over my height/age limit, I pass the tape test easily with about 8% to spare.

I'm 41 yrs old & after starting TRT using injections I felt like I did when I was in my early 30's as far as workout levels & energy as well as libido & generally feeling good about myself. I'm not chasing the dream of being 18 again, but I think I can get to a moderately better level. I view TRT as about 25% of the equation & diet/exercise as about 75% of it.

I know that before TRT I couldn't benefit from my workouts. Didn't matter if it was a weight day or aerobic day, I just couldn't get my body to work hard enough. After I started TRT, I can work out much harded not only during weight days but also on my aerobic days. I agree that TRT alone is not the key, but in my case the TRT is about 75% of the benefit, because I was getting very little benefit from my workouts before TRT.

[zaggahamma]

i agree...i think without the right health youre chasing your tail training rather than chasing tail

[G.P.]

just an update.
Had my appt today & even though it was the same doc it was like talking to a completely different person. He agreed that the injections would be best, weekly is fine to keep me feeling more stable, & upped my dosage with bloodwork & a re-eval in 6 weeks to see where I'm at.
Needless to say I'm happy with the outcome.

[zaggahamma]

just an update.
Had my appt today & even though it was the same doc it was like talking to a completely different person. He agreed that the injections would be best, weekly is fine to keep me feeling more stable, & upped my dosage with bloodwork & a re-eval in 6 weeks to see where I'm at.
Needless to say I'm happy with the outcome.

simply...

mah va lous

[bass]

thats great! keep us updated!

[Whitecollar10]

just an update.
Had my appt today & even though it was the same doc it was like talking to a completely different person. He agreed that the injections would be best, weekly is fine to keep me feeling more stable, & upped my dosage with bloodwork & a re-eval in 6 weeks to see where I'm at.
Needless to say I'm happy with the outcome.

It sounds like your discussions with him prompted the doc to read more recent research. If so, he is doing what doctors are supposed to do. Doctors are supposed to be accepting of new information and treatment options when supported by data.

[GotNoBlueMilk]

It sounds like your discussions with him prompted the doc to read more recent research. If so, he is doing what doctors are supposed to do. Doctors are supposed to be accepting of new information and treatment options when supported by data.

Wonder if you can bill him for the education

[Whitecollar10]

Only if the doc asks him to sign off on his continuing education requirements!