New, First post, opinions please

[OutLaw8.5]

Hey, i've been lurking for a while now, have learned a ton, thanks for a great site with good knowledgable info. just got my tests back again for the third time. (first time with new doctor). and while my results are very LOW, they are still under the range, but what concerns me the most is my e2 level.

she only tested my total test, but i requested her to also test my e2
total test 360 minimum range 400 (pretty standard i guess)

but my e2 was 40!!!! ****ing 40. on a range from 7-43

I'm 27 5'11'' 200 ish lbs.... decent build, not excessivley fat. probably 15 % right now (i've been slacking, no energy/motivation and been struggling to loose weight....) i can easily (usually) and comfortably go 180-190 at 12%<

all the standard symptoms, moody, SUPER EMOTIONAL, foggy head, forgetful, zero sex drive. Doctor if i experienced and erectial dsyfunction i asked her "ma'am you ever tried shooting pool with a rope?!"

so she's wanting to do 200mg a month 1xmonth and see how that does....

she says they only do test there they don't administer e2, but if needed she send me to a specialist....

while i agree my test is barely low, my main curosity is the strong side of the e2... so i'm just looking for opinions really

i'm glad to be finally on the path in the right direction to getting back to normal.

Thanks

8.5

[flatscat]

Welcome.

What is your diet like? Do you drink alcohol much? At your age, anything out of range is way too low. Sure would like to see what your free t looks like. And your E2 value is way high as you noted. Obviously it is taking up some t.

Free test is king - so you (and your doc) should know what it is. Oh and 200/month will be enough to shut your natty production down and you will be worse off than you are now. If you can't get her to change her mind let her send you to an endo.

Welcome

[OutLaw8.5]

I have the results from my first two tests from the other doctor at the house without e2 I'll post all of those results when I get home. I know it's not the same but maybe give you guys an idea.


I eat six to eight times a day depending on how I feel. I don't eat stage prep clean, but I eat clean. I may drink 4times a year


I put in a call to her with my concern of my e2


Brain fog..... shit..... sighs.....


Thanks!

[OutLaw8.5]

She called and said just one shot a month for now, and couldn't address my e2because ill was still within normal range... she did say that if I was overly concerned she'd send me to an endo.... should it be a no brainer and I go before even starting therapy?

Thanks
8.5

[meathead320]

Testosterone Cypionate has a half life of 5-8 days, 1x a month at 200mg is a roller coaster with a supraphysiologic high point, and a very low long last low point.

The other thing, is that with elevated E2 at your age, I'd suggest seeing the specialist and seeing about a script for arimidex .

If you cut your E2 down to 20-30 pg/ml that alone might move you up the middle or even top 1/3rd of natural test, as your hgih E2 could be keeping you from producing enough testosterone .

E2 levels causing negative feedback and such.

[GotNoBlueMilk]

If she won't adjust your medication to what you need, tell her you want to be referred to an endo.

Other option is if she is letting you self inject you buy some needles and split the does to 1 shot per week.

[OutLaw8.5]

She already said she would refer, so I just called and left a message requesting such. No shots at home and she won't split it into two weeks, so we'll see how the endo pans out... I just don't think I can hang out on this play ground much longer let alone a bigger roller coaster

[GotNoBlueMilk]

The real issue with the roller coaster is that you feel soooo great, then go back to feeling bad. It's worse than feeling bad all the time and forgetting what it is like to feel good.

[OutLaw8.5]

Touche


I asked about aI but she/her assistant said she can't do anything because it's still it the normal range level....


Wish my T level was in the upper fifth!

[VegasRenegade]

1 get a new doc
2 get a male doc
3 get a new male doc

One a month is a very bad Idea

[forrest_and_trees]

I'd have to say I agree with the general consensus, your Test is too low for someone your age. I began experiencing significant symptoms at about your age but unfortunately I did not learn I had Low T *and* high E2 until nearly 15 years later, and I can say without a doubt, no exaggeration, it *ruined* my life. Don't sit still and let some uninformed doc ruin yours... Go to the Endo and if *they* don't cooperate, move on. Part of the battle of living with and treating Low T/ High E2, is finding a doc who will work with you. It's your health, don't take no for an answer!

As for E2, [to the best of my knowledge] it doesn't necessarily prevent the production of Test, what actually happens is some of the Test you have, gets *turned into E2*, this is called aromatization. [ <--Read the links for more info.] Hence the term "Anti-Aromatase" or "AI". Arimidex [and the *much* cheaper generic version Anastrozole], are AI's. These are the most commonly prescribed medication used to lower E.

Note: AI's were originally developed for women with breast cancer, and have technically not been formulated for men, [yet] which is why most docs don't know, or are hesitant about it's use for men. [Personally, I had to educate my own doc about it who, in turn, went to his pharmaceutical rep and confirmed what I told him.] Also, it's important to know that the stuff is *strong* and the smallest dosage available form a typical pharmacy is 1mg which is *a lot* for a man. [For example, my prescription bottle says 1mg a day, but I personally take .25mg about every 3-4 days.] It's important to note that having *too low* of E2 can be just as bad, if not worse, as too much.

The problem with elevated E2, is your essentially getting double dinged because you're losing out on some of the natural test your body produces, due to the aromatization process, therefore your available test is lowered. Which incidentally is why knowing your Free T level is so important. The second hit is from what the elevated E2 does to you. [Read here for the symptoms of elevated E2. ...Do any of those symptoms sound familiar?]

Unfortunately, some men [such as myself] are naturally predisposed to increased aromatization. Added to that, is the ridiculous amount of *synthetic estrogens we consume* called, "Xenoestrogens". Increasingly, studies are showing the negative effects they have. So simply getting your E2 levels in check could show a significant improvement. ...Which leads to the next issue:

Flatscat is right about T injections shutting down your natural production, so you may want to give something like DHEA a try before begining the T, because once you're on T, there's no going back. It's for life! DHEA is cheap [$10-20 a bottle] and available at just about any pharm or vitamin store.

Meathead320 is also right, you'll be on a hormonal roller coaster if you go with one shot a month. Most of us here inject once, or even twice a week to even out the peaks and valleys. I personally do twice and will have to as long as I'm above ground. That's a *lot* of needle stabbing. But the alternative is far worse. So we do what's necessary. You're still young enough that you may be able to use more natural means to increase your levels and alleviate the symptoms by lowering your E2. So the best thing for you is to continue self educating. Take an active roll in your health and don't let uninformed physicians dictate your life. After all, you have to live with it, not them.

Best of luck and keep us posted!

F/T

[OutLaw8.5]

Thanks Tree, on the road right now. Gonna open my laptop first thing when I get home and read through your links.


THanks again guys

Spoke with her assistant and elaborated my concerns and why she seemed very open and told her about an endo malethat My buddy is using and has opening tomorrow and Friday, she said she would see what She could do about getting me referred to him


8.5

[OutLaw8.5]

here's the results from my first doctor back last july and august- no estrogen checked (my stupidity for not asking....)

total test on his range of 250-1100
First Test: 332
Second Test:413

Free test on range 46-224
first test 40.5
second test 56.7

bio availabe on range 110-575
first test 90.4
second test 119.1


was then 26 191ish lbs....


8.5

[forrest_and_trees]

Yah, I'd say you're close enough that getting your E2 in range would certainly help. If all else fails, you can forego the physician's request for a test and do it yourself on line. There are a number of sites that allow you to order tests without a doc and to get your E2 checked would run about $50. [Give or take $10 to $15.] The good thing is, they use the exact same offices and labs as other physicians and hospitals and there are literally hundreds of locations all over. [There are 5 within 5 miles of were I live.] You get an email response a couple days later with a link to a private site were you can download a PDF of your results. I personally use privatemdlabs.com, and there's a good chance you may be able to get your insurance to reimburse you.

[OutLaw8.5]

Will someone please dumb down dhea's for me! I get the rest of it, having trouble relating the DHEA to self

thanks in advance
8.5

[Epic Ed]

Ask you doc why she insists on putting you on a 1x month protocol when the half life of test cyp is 5-8 days. Remind her of the Hippocratic Oath and that part about "I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone." Let her know intentionally putting you on an emotional roller coaster is definitely going to "do you harm." If she won't let you self administer your injection once a week walk out and go find another doc.

[OutLaw8.5]

Just got my referral to see the endo, curious if he'll just want to try an AI first or he'll want to just go ahead and start with some test.

[steroid.com 1]

1 get a new doc
2 get a male doc
3 get a new male docOne a month is a very bad Idea

I couldn't agree more! She doesn't know what she is doing and will make you worse off. With 200 mg of T will only go to drive your E2 even higher with no AI. Plus you will need hCG to protect your testicles.

Let us know how it goes with your Endo consult.