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  1. #1
    BigMax88 is offline Junior Member
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    Age 23, received lab results. Need interpretation.

    I was told everything was "normal" but didn't get to speak to my doctor directly. Alrighty, here are the results followed by the normal ranges:

    Estrogen, Total, Serum = 121 (130 pg/mL or less)
    IGF I, ECL = 324 (121-423 ng/mL)
    DHEA Sulfate = 253 (110-510 mcg/dL)
    FSH = 5.1 (1.6-8.0 mIU/mL)
    LH = 2.3 (1.5-9.3 mIU/mL)
    Prolactin = 6.4 (2.0-18.0 ng/mL)
    PSA, Total = 0.2 (< or = 4.0 ng/mL)
    Testosterone , Total, LC/MS/MS = 475 (250-1100 ng/dL)
    Testosterone, Free = 53.2 (35.0-155.0 pg/mL)

    What do you think? Thanks!

  2. #2
    sirupate is offline Member
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    "Normal" doesn't mean optimal. At age 23, I'd have expected your total and free test. numbers to be higher. I think estradiol is what you want tested as opposed to estrogen, but your estrogen is high in the normal range. LH seems low normal, which might explain your low normal test. numbers. The LH number means that your pituitary isn't doing that good a job of signaling your testes to make testosterone .

    Lots of doctors will stop with anything in the normal range and say no treatment needed. I guess it depends if you have symptoms which require treatment in spite of being in the normal range.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigMax88 View Post
    I was told everything was "normal" but didn't get to speak to my doctor directly. Alrighty, here are the results followed by the normal ranges:

    Estrogen, Total, Serum = 121 (130 pg/mL or less)
    IGF I, ECL = 324 (121-423 ng/mL)
    DHEA Sulfate = 253 (110-510 mcg/dL)
    FSH = 5.1 (1.6-8.0 mIU/mL)
    LH = 2.3 (1.5-9.3 mIU/mL)
    Prolactin = 6.4 (2.0-18.0 ng/mL)
    PSA, Total = 0.2 (< or = 4.0 ng/mL)
    Testosterone , Total, LC/MS/MS = 475 (250-1100 ng/dL)
    Testosterone, Free = 53.2 (35.0-155.0 pg/mL)

    What do you think? Thanks!
    You look healthy to me.

    E2 is a bit high.
    IGF1 is strong!
    FSH is a bit high as well. Make sure you're getting iodine in your multi and use iodized salt!
    Total T is a little low of a 23 year old
    Free T is a bit low as well but nothing to really worry about.

    What are your SHBG and Albumin levels?

    IMO, you are a little off in higer E2 and lower Free T. If you don't have any symptoms I would just keep an eye on things year over year.

    If you have symptoms of Low T your Doc probably won't do anything for you as your labs are "relatively speaking" normal. If you want a TRT protocol you'd be better served speaking to a clinic.

  4. #4
    BigMax88 is offline Junior Member
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    IS there any thing to be prescribed for low LH? I do have symptoms of low testosterone . How much, do you think, could I increase my low test by diet & exercise? And how long would it take?

  5. #5
    pyramid is offline Junior Member
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    Hcg can be used to do the same thing that LH does signal the boys to make more test, but I do not know if someone with normal levals should use it.

  6. #6
    sirupate is offline Member
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    The key to getting any medical help, given the "normal" levels will be symptoms that the doctor may be willing to treat. That may also mean finding an agreeable doctor or clinic. But yeah...the low normal LH can be addressed by regular HCG injections. Diet and exercise can be important to feeling better, so I think they are a part of the equation, but maybe finding out why LH is low is the key. Dunno...I'm not a doctor and can't tell you how often low normal LH levels are seen in young men and whether most doctors would say that more investigation is needed. But again, if BigMax88 has symptoms that are bothering him, it is more likely that a doctor will investigate the why and initiate some sort of treatment.

  7. #7
    zaggahamma's Avatar
    zaggahamma is offline Mr. Moderation
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    agree with all above....you have numbers that are usually hard to have a doctor go further..some with or without complaining symptoms but you would have to try that route....what are your symptoms btw...and are you coming off cycle(s) at any time? can u provide stats as well...

    gdevine, can you give a little more info on the fsh...i was a bit confused at why his is high when only a lil over half way past the range...thanks

    bigmax..good luck

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpkman View Post
    agree with all above....you have numbers that are usually hard to have a doctor go further..some with or without complaining symptoms but you would have to try that route....what are your symptoms btw...and are you coming off cycle(s) at any time? can u provide stats as well...

    gdevine, can you give a little more info on the fsh...i was a bit confused at why his is high when only a lil over half way past the range...thanks

    bigmax..good luck
    FSH is heading toward hypothyroidism and I'd like to see Free T3 and more importantly FT4 levels. FSH can be low (remember inverted range for FSH) but if FreeT3 and FreeT4 are in the mid to higher range then I wouldn't be concerned.

    Make sure that you are getting iodine in your multi and use iodized salt...it's really good for your thyroid. I started using iodized salt and my FSH went to 2.6 to 2.0.
    Last edited by steroid.com 1; 05-20-2011 at 12:47 PM.

  9. #9
    zaggahamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdevine View Post
    FSH is heading toward hypothyroidism and I'd like to see Free T3 and more importantly FT4 levels. FSH can be low (remember inverted range for FSH) but if FreeT3 and FreeT4 are in the mid to higher range then I wouldn't be concerned.

    Make sure that you are getting iodine in your multi and use iodized salt...it's really good for your thyroid. I started using iodized salt and my FSH went to 2.6 to 2.0.
    are u confusing fsh with tsh????????? or am in the twilight zone..probably am anyway but..................?????????

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpkman View Post
    are u confusing fsh with tsh????????? or am in the twilight zone..probably am anyway but..................?????????
    Oh man...that's what happens when you're working on a legal contract and then jumping onto these boards at the same time LOL!

    Yes, TSH!!!

  11. #11
    BigMax88 is offline Junior Member
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    Sorry for the long delay. I had given up on my pursuit do to a number of reasons. I just want to ask this: can I increase my testosterone to normal 23yr old levels through exercise, diet and sleep? Like doing sprints, weight lifting, etc...?

  12. #12
    zaggahamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigMax88 View Post
    Sorry for the long delay. I had given up on my pursuit do to a number of reasons. I just want to ask this: can I increase my testosterone to normal 23yr old levels through exercise, diet and sleep? Like doing sprints, weight lifting, etc...?
    try it and then tell us

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigMax88 View Post
    Sorry for the long delay. I had given up on my pursuit do to a number of reasons. I just want to ask this: can I increase my testosterone to normal 23yr old levels through exercise, diet and sleep? Like doing sprints, weight lifting, etc...?
    Your levels are fine, so do you actually feel bad or ????

    You dont want to get on the TRT train, it is a life long ride. Diet and exercise and paramount to a healthy life, period. How long it will take to feel better is up to you and how hard you want to work, but in 30 days of good eating and working out hard you will probably feel pretty darn good

  14. #14
    WHOADY4SHOADY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy67 View Post
    Your levels are fine, so do you actually feel bad or ????

    You dont want to get on the TRT train, it is a life long ride. Diet and exercise and paramount to a healthy life, period. How long it will take to feel better is up to you and how hard you want to work, but in 30 days of good eating and working out hard you will probably feel pretty darn good
    Yeah, but will he be able to pack on muscle at a decent rate, and heal up in a reasonable amount of time. That is my worries after getting my results back recently.

  15. #15
    zaggahamma's Avatar
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    only the individual knows whether they are training and eating properly and making gains or not...should be easy to tell....do things right and if you dont make gains then your prolly gonna do something about it, no?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHOADY4SHOADY View Post
    Yeah, but will he be able to pack on muscle at a decent rate, and heal up in a reasonable amount of time. That is my worries after getting my results back recently.
    If your levels are fine, and you dont feel symptoms of Low T, then you are talking about taking steroids . Its a fine line, but it is there

    I am not making any judgments on somebody for it, but lets all be honest about it. with his levels, he should still be able to put on muscle and heal just fine

  17. #17
    zaggahamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy67 View Post
    If your levels are fine, and you dont feel symptoms of Low T, then you are talking about taking steroids . Its a fine line, but it is there

    I am not making any judgments on somebody for it, but lets all be honest about it. with his levels, he should still be able to put on muscle and heal just fine
    i agree its a fine line and a personal decision..obviously..

    as i read back in the thread i dont see that thyroid tests were followed thru

  18. #18
    BigMax88 is offline Junior Member
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    Update

    I talked with a doc at an anti-aging clinic. She agrees that my test is definitely low for my age(23). Some of you think it's fine, but I have all of the symptoms. Now, she said the first step is to get a cat scan to see if my pituitary gland is fine. I had a concussion via falling on my head when I was 6 years old. I'll get that done later this month. Secondly, if the scan comes back fine, She said I'll start with HCG . I've heard it only works in 30% of men, but don't know how accurate that is. Before that, I must get blood work done. I'm assuming it'll comeback similar to previous tests. I'm cool with boosting my test naturally. I look forward to more facial hair, leaning up, better sex drive/function and greater mood. The cost of the clinic is as follows:

    Cat scan, out of pocket, $200-$300??
    Lab work: covered by ins.
    Initial lab consultation: $300
    Monthly service fee: $150 (includes reviewing follow up labs)
    HCG: $??

    I'll ask her about estrogen too. I already have gyno, since puberty.

    What do you think of this route? If everything works out, I should be on HCG in early De***ber.

    And, I have an appt with another clinic to compare pricing. That's a bit expensive for me. I wash dishes in college, after all.

  19. #19
    zaggahamma's Avatar
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    bout the prices...looks reasonable...

    most importantly this doc sounds competent so although of course finances is a matter u have to way...this is your health bro...

    sounds like you found a good doc and your on the right track man....

    good luck

  20. #20
    BigMax88 is offline Junior Member
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    True. The money doesn't matter relative to the importance of this therapy. I just want to feel good. I can pay for it, barely. I'll update on the other clinic's prices, and once I get feedback on any catscans/bloodwork.

  21. #21
    BigMax88 is offline Junior Member
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    I met with the other clinic and their prices are a lot better. $75 initial consultation, $45 for follow up visits. Probably $120/mo for services and $80/mo for the prescriptions. I'm trying to get on test, hcg and AI. I meet with the doc this tuesday to go over everything and see if we can move forward. I may need more lab work and/or catscan. Everyday is getting slower as I wait. I really can't wait to get on this therapy. It would really change my life! Right now I'm trying to figure out the optimum dosing for test, hcg and AI. Going to read up, but would like some awesome protocols. Thanks!

  22. #22
    zaggahamma's Avatar
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    cheapest ive seen

  23. #23
    Brohim's Avatar
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    what is your diet like and how often do you workout? What is your height/weight?

  24. #24
    BigMax88 is offline Junior Member
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    I'm 6' 1" 193lb around 14/15%bf. I workout 5 days a week, rest sunday, some cardio saturday(optional). I strength train & hypertrophy in random weeks. 3 reps 5 sets one week, maybe 12reps 5 sets another, and inbetween. To basically keep surprising my muscles.

    My diet consists of oatmeal, whey protein, eggs, cheese, fish oil, vitamin(zinc & D3 esp), wheat bread, chicken, steak, tuna, olive oil mayo, spinach, blueberries, bananas, natural organic honey peanut butter, protein bars, turkey, etc...

    I do everything right.

    Tomorrow, my "big day," is when I get the low down from the doc. She's going to look over my labs, see if I need any more labs and/or a CT scan. I already scheduled a blood lab appt for wed just in case. I want to get results asap(thanksgiving isn't helping).
    Last edited by BigMax88; 11-22-2011 at 01:37 PM.

  25. #25
    BigMax88 is offline Junior Member
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    Alrighty! Just got back from the clinic and here's what took place:

    - A ton of bloodwork, mostly to check thyroid levels to see if I need meds for that, and for estrogen.
    - Prescribed testosterone injections @ 200mg 5x per month. That is, every 6 days.
    - Prescribed HCG @ 12,000 (don't know what this means, but the paper has two options to circle, 12,000 or 7,000 and she circled the 12,000). I was told to take this two days before my test injections. Makes sense, because that's the normal protocol right? The test lowers around day 5-7, so I basically take hcg around then to keep me level?
    - Prescribed Anastrozole @ 5mg pills. 12 pills in total(month's worth).
    - 6 needles and 6 syringes.

    All prescriptions above are ordered monthly. All I paid was $143 for all 3: Test, hcg and A.I.

    She wants me to hold off on the A.I. until she looks at my bloodwork in 2 weeks(which she withdrew today).

    The goods come via mail, probably early next week. I'm so very happy I finally got on this.

    Shall I start a blog once I initially inject myself and jump on the horse?

  26. #26
    bass's Avatar
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    congratulations! 200 every six days is the high end dose, but follow your doc's protocol and see what happens. your hCG dose doesn't make sense! the most I've seen prescribed is 500iu on the two days before your test shot, for you it would be 500iu day 4 and 500iu day 5. but you need to find out what is your dose is. only 5 needles? what gauge and length?

  27. #27
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    ^agree with Bass. High end but see what happens with proper bw. Doc seems decent, wanting to review your results before initiating the AI. Speaking of which, I've never heard of 5mg anastrozole. Was that a typo?

    Post your next bw and good luck.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    ^agree with Bass. High end but see what happens with proper bw. Doc seems decent, wanting to review your results before initiating the AI. Speaking of which, I've never heard of 5mg anastrozole. Was that a typo?

    Post your next bw and good luck.
    good catch Kel! i saw that as .5! BigMax, be careful with anastrozole, starting dose for AI is 1mg per 100mgs test, so do the math and don't take more than suggested based on that rule, then adjust based on blood work.

  29. #29
    zaggahamma's Avatar
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    Agree hcg too much and ai dose prolly compounded at .5mg or 5mg for whole month

  30. #30
    BigMax88 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by bass
    congratulations! 200 every six days is the high end dose, but follow your doc's protocol and see what happens. your hCG dose doesn't make sense! the most I've seen prescribed is 500iu on the two days before your test shot, for you it would be 500iu day 4 and 500iu day 5. but you need to find out what is your dose is. only 5 needles? what gauge and length?
    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel
    ^agree with Bass. High end but see what happens with proper bw. Doc seems decent, wanting to review your results before initiating the AI. Speaking of which, I've never heard of 5mg anastrozole. Was that a typo?
    Heh you misread, It's six needles/syringes. In regards to the 12,000 # for HCG , I remember mentioning splitting up 500 IU of HCG during the week as a protocol, and she said no we do it differently. Something along the lines of 200 IU 2 days before test injection. So, I believe it's 200 IU without a doubt because 200 x 6 shots per month is 12,000. Bingo. I can be absent minded.

    The hormone package sheet I was given was a copy, so the "5mg Anastrozole" could easily be missing the period. I'll certainly double check.

    I have gyno since puberty, so I'm assuming I have high estrogen. I'm itching to use the A.I. from the get-go but I don't want to pull that one on her.

    As far as 200x6 for test a month being high, I'm ok with that! As long as i'm in the healthy high range, I don't think it's a problem. With that being said, I think the changes in the way I feel are going to be astounding(hopefully). I really have no idea what changes will occur and when, but I want most of them to be in effect come my 24th birthday in February. Best birthday present ever.

    This is all surreal for me to be honest. I'm still skeptical until I get my "controlled substances" in the mail. I'll be out of town until Monday, and either that day or Tuesday I should have the goods. Just want to extend my grateful thanks for the advice and support. I think it'll be in the best interest of the TRT/HRT community if I start a blog. It's really difficult to find solid, well-documented blogs in this regard. Before and after pics too.

    Will update once I stab myself.
    Last edited by BigMax88; 11-22-2011 at 08:31 PM.

  31. #31
    kelkel's Avatar
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    "Will update once I stab myself"

    Funny! Good luck and welcome btw!

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigMax88 View Post
    Heh you misread, It's six needles/syringes. In regards to the 12,000 # for HCG , I remember mentioning splitting up 500 IU of HCG during the week as a protocol, and she said no we do it differently. Something along the lines of 200 IU 2 days before test injection. So, I believe it's 200 IU without a doubt because 200 x 6 shots per month is 12,000. Bingo. I can be absent minded.

    The hormone package sheet I was given was a copy, so the "5mg Anastrozole" could easily be missing the period. I'll certainly double check.

    I have gyno since puberty, so I'm assuming I have high estrogen. I'm itching to use the A.I. from the get-go but I don't want to pull that one on her.

    As far as 200x6 for test a month being high, I'm ok with that! As long as i'm in the healthy high range, I don't think it's a problem. With that being said, I think the changes in the way I feel are going to be astounding(hopefully). I really have no idea what changes will occur and when, but I want most of them to be in effect come my 24th birthday in February. Best birthday present ever.

    This is all surreal for me to be honest. I'm still skeptical until I get my "controlled substances" in the mail. I'll be out of town until Monday, and either that day or Tuesday I should have the goods. Just want to extend my grateful thanks for the advice and support. I think it'll be in the best interest of the TRT/HRT community if I start a blog. It's really difficult to find solid, well-documented blogs in this regard. Before and after pics too.

    Will update once I stab myself.
    at 24 you will feel like a god my friend because you won't have the issue with your joints like us old guys! and yes please start a blog and take photos now so you can compare 3 or so months from now! best of luck to you on your TRT journey! you still didn't tell me what gauge and how long the needles are!

  33. #33
    Brohim's Avatar
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    Looking forward to your blog.

  34. #34
    BigMax88 is offline Junior Member
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    Haha yea I look forward to the blog too. Feel like a god?? I'll see! I just realized I'm a dumb ass. 200x6 is 1,200 not 12,000. My mistake, again. It doesn't make sense for it to be that high. I'll post the units once I get the HCG . Happy thanksgiving everyone!

  35. #35
    Brohim's Avatar
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    You will need to start the AI right off the bat with the test inj. if going 200mg per week to keep e2 in check.

  36. #36
    BigMax88 is offline Junior Member
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    Yea I really want to start the A.I. initially. I have gyno already, and I'm starting off with a high dose test and HCG . That last thing I need are bigger/sore nipples. Doc said to take the A.I. after two weeks on TRT. She's doing follow-up bloodwork 2 weeks in. So, right after that bloodwork she says to jump on A.I. Ok, so my question is, in those two weeks of obvious high estrogen will my nipples grow more tissue?

    On the other hand, I could start the A.I. and once she gets the results of the bloodwork two weeks in, I can say I took the A.I. and hopefully my estrogen is in check. But, like I said in another post, I don't want to pull a fast one.

  37. #37
    kelkel's Avatar
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    You will survive waiting two weeks. Keep the trust level between you and your doctor.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    You will survive waiting two weeks. Keep the trust level between you and your doctor.
    ^^^ This says a lot Kelkel. Being direct and honest and asking the right questions will produce the best result. Keep us updated BigMax

  39. #39
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    never been close to having gyno so imo YOUR CALL...

    i will never JUST TRUST a doctor JUST BECAUSE...

    i definitely will ask for their advice and if said advice is given WITH MERIT...proceed as directed

    either way you are having bloodwork done

    my two pennies

  40. #40
    Brohim's Avatar
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    You won't get gyno in 2 weeks. Your blood levels won't peak until the 4th week. But you will probably gain 4-5 lbs. of water weight I would say. If you told your doc you are gyno prone she should have put you on an AI to start since 200 per week is double the normal starting dose.

    On the other hand, there is no imminent danger of 2 weeks on test and getting gyno. And you have plenty of time to workout your proper test/AI dose.

    IMO if you have low T already 100/week will probably be enough. 200 starting will probably raise you to supra levels.
    Last edited by Brohim; 11-24-2011 at 01:32 PM.

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