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  1. #1
    Imatk is offline New Member
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    Insulin Needle in Leg Can't Walk the Next Day

    So I've been on TRT for a while now.

    But we recently moved and I had to go to a new doc.

    I was taking .5 cc of Test/Cyp in a weekly injection in the rearend, but noticed I started to feel depressed/bad the day after the injection

    So my new doc gave me these insulin needles and put me on a three-times weekly injection but this time in my thigh.

    The needles are super small and it takes a while to even get the test in there but that's not really an issue.

    The issue I had was my leg was so sore the next day I could barely walk. I'm not exaggerating it hobbled me almost.

    I walked with a severe limp the day after and then three days after my leg still hurt like a mofo!

    He instructed me, when I inject, to flex the leg and insert the needle into my quad (Vastus Medialis is the medical term for the muscle he showed me) and then inject it.

    Now what I did was flexed and stuck and then injected... BUT the damn needle is so small it takes a long time to get the stuff in so I stopped flexing at one point because my damn leg got tired. And the rest of the time I injected with it not flexed.

    I was just wondering if any of you guys do it this way and if so have you experienced the same problem? Am I doing something wrong? Or should I just go back to weekly in the butt?

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    lifter65 is offline Associate Member
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    if im not mistaken, the vastus medialis is on the inside of your leg, the lateralus on the outside, you're supposed to inject on the outside not the inside because it has more veins, did you aspirate ? i inject with my leg relaxed and dont have a problem. also an insulin needle is not for test, its to small, im no expert, but in my opinion your docs advice is ass backwards

  3. #3
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    There is really no need to IM with the insulin needle. Many men inject SQ in the fat on their stomach. Uptake is the same time and there's virtually no pain. Ask your Doc if you can give this a try for a few weeks and then report back.

  4. #4
    Imatk is offline New Member
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    Yeah inside of the leg. I always thought test had to be in the muscle.

  5. #5
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    According to convention if we inject oil-based anabolic androgenic steroids into the fat layer beneath the skin and above the muscle (subcutaneous) it will impair absorption and could delay dissapation of drugs for many weeks or months. Research that was conducted at the Royal Victoria Hospital in Canada at the endocrine clinic tested the viability of subcutaneous shots.

    The study involved 22 patients who were using the clinic for testosterone replacement therapy. The anabolic androgenic steroids was testosterone enanthate . The subjects were instructed to self-administer their testosterone subcutaneously once per week. The same 1ml that would have been injected once every 2 weeks was divided up into .5ml weekly injections. Blood tests which were conducted periodically throughout the 1 year investigation were suprisingly and unquestionably consistent. For exactly 100% of patients enrolled, testosterone levels remained in the physiological (normal) range for the entire duration of the study. This included both peak and trough levels (high & low during each week). Furthermore injections were extremely well tolerated. Each patient took over 50 injections and not one single adverse reactionn was noticed at the injection site.

    The investigation concluded that not only was subcutaneous testosterone enanthate a viable option as far as drug release , but it was safe, cheap and far more comfortable for their patients compared to intramuscular injections.


    Al-Futaisi AM, Al-Zakwani IS, Almahrezi AM, Morris D. Subcutaneous administration of testosterone. A pilot study report. Saudi Med J. 2006;27(12):1843-6.

    ABSTRACT

    OBJECTIVE: To investigate the effect of low doses of subcutaneous testosterone in hypogonadal men since the intramuscular route, which is the most widely used form of testosterone replacement therapy, is inconvenient to many patients. METHODS: All men with primary and secondary hypogonadism attending the reproductive endocrine clinic at Royal Victoria Hospital, Monteral, Quebec, Canada, were invited to participate in the study. Subjects were enrolled from January 2002 till December 2002. Patients were asked to self-administer weekly low doses of testosterone enanthate using 0.5 ml insulin syringe. RESULTS: A total of 22 patients were enrolled in the study. The mean trough was 14.48 +/- 3.14 nmol/L and peak total testosterone was 21.65 +/- 7.32 nmol/L. For the free testosterone the average trough was 59.94 +/- 20.60 pmol/L and the peak was 85.17 +/- 32.88 pmol/L. All of the patients delivered testosterone with ease and no local reactions were reported. CONCLUSION: Therapy with weekly subcutaneous testosterone produced serum levels that were within the normal range in 100% of patients for both peak and trough levels. This is the first report, which demonstrated the efficacy of delivering weekly testosterone using this cheap, safe, and less painful subcutaneous route.

  6. #6
    JD250's Avatar
    JD250 is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Maybe GNBM will chime in here....I believe he injects Sub Q with great results....

  7. #7
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    I haven't tried it yet either but if you Google it you'll find a lot of men doing it this way and more and more Docs are getting on board as well. I like the idea of not sticking a 1 1/4" needle in my ass twice a week

  8. #8
    JD250's Avatar
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    Yea, I'm not sure why I haven't tried it, wonder if you can do deca sub Q

  9. #9
    GotNoBlueMilk is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD250 View Post
    Maybe GNBM will chime in here....I believe he injects Sub Q with great results....
    If you have small needles go with subq! I do my T Cyp 2x/week and go subq. The inner part or top of the thigh works better because there is more fat, the skin is looser. I have done the oblique and stomach too. You just need to go with an area that has some fat in the skin and not thin skin like you find on the forearm.

    Anyway, give it a shot (pun intended):
    Load your needle
    Pinch your skin and fat layer up between your forefinger and thumb. Get a decent amount of skin so you have a nice fold lifted up.
    Put the needle in the highest peak of the skin fold you pinched up. You want the needle to stay in the skin/fat and not hit the muscle and definately not hit the muscle/skin barrier (that really hurts injecting there).
    No point in trying to asperate. You are in skin, and the needle is way too small to pull blood back through anyway
    Inject the T slowly

    When I am done, I put my forefinger over the needle hole and massage the area a little. Just to disperse it a little better.

  10. #10
    sirupate is offline Member
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    Need to try this method sometime. Makes a lot of sense and unfortunately, I still have enough belly fat to be able to grab a small fold to inject into. Have a "buttload" of IM syringes though, so if I switch...oh well.

  11. #11
    sirupate is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by GotNoBlueMilk View Post
    If you have small needles go with subq! I do my T Cyp 2x/week and go subq. The inner part or top of the thigh works better because there is more fat, the skin is looser. I have done the oblique and stomach too. You just need to go with an area that has some fat in the skin and not thin skin like you find on the forearm.

    Anyway, give it a shot (pun intended):
    Load your needle
    Pinch your skin and fat layer up between your forefinger and thumb. Get a decent amount of skin so you have a nice fold lifted up.
    Put the needle in the highest peak of the skin fold you pinched up. You want the needle to stay in the skin/fat and not hit the muscle and definately not hit the muscle/skin barrier (that really hurts injecting there).
    No point in trying to asperate. You are in skin, and the needle is way too small to pull blood back through anyway
    Inject the T slowly

    When I am done, I put my forefinger over the needle hole and massage the area a little. Just to disperse it a little better.
    What gauge/size/length needle are you using? I forget what you posted in the past abvout this and didn't want to go looking. Thanks,

  12. #12
    GotNoBlueMilk is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    I use 27g, 1/2" needle. I think this is the same as an insulin needle.

  13. #13
    Imatk is offline New Member
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    Maybe that's why it hurt so much... I put it in the muscle?

    The inner part of the thigh was where I injected... sort of... it was closer to the knee though.

  14. #14
    APIs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GotNoBlueMilk View Post
    I use 27g, 1/2" needle. I think this is the same as an insulin needle.
    That's great if this works for you, but I can't imagine taking the time to inject using insulin pins. Out of curiosity, how long does it take for you to both draw & inject using this method? Thanks...

  15. #15
    sirupate is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imatk View Post
    Maybe that's why it hurt so much... I put it in the muscle?

    The inner part of the thigh was where I injected... sort of... it was closer to the knee though.
    Most of us inject intramuscularly and use the glutes or outer quads...not the inner thigh. Sometimes it hurts a bit on injection and sometimes afterwards depending on how much test. we are putting into the muscle. I would not think that the syringe you used contributed to the pain. Probably just a bad location.

  16. #16
    GotNoBlueMilk is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by APIs View Post
    That's great if this works for you, but I can't imagine taking the time to inject using insulin pins. Out of curiosity, how long does it take for you to both draw & inject using this method? Thanks...
    It takes me about 60 seconds to draw 0.25 ml of Test Cyp. It takes about 10 seconds it.

  17. #17
    GotNoBlueMilk is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirupate View Post
    Most of us inject intramuscularly and use the glutes or outer quads...not the inner thigh. Sometimes it hurts a bit on injection and sometimes afterwards depending on how much test. we are putting into the muscle. I would not think that the syringe you used contributed to the pain. Probably just a bad location.
    Yeah, I don't do inner thigh myself. While sitting, I do more up top close to the hip. The outer thigh, at least for me, is too tight and the skin is a bit thin there.

  18. #18
    Ratt's Avatar
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    Inject in your quads with a 1" 22G needle. The inner part of the thigh is much more sensitive than your quad.
    Also draw your T with a 22 or 25 needle and then change to a new needle to inject.
    Seems like a pretty awkward place to inject.
    I'm 9 months into my trt and inject in my quad without any issues or soreness.

  19. #19
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    Ive dont the Sub Q in the stomach the same as I use to do HGH. Never again. It's the only time I have had a lump and pain for 1 week. I stick to 1" in the quads/thighs and 1 1/2 in glutes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lovbyts View Post
    Ive dont the Sub Q in the stomach the same as I use to do HGH. Never again. It's the only time I have had a lump and pain for 1 week. I stick to 1" in the quads/thighs and 1 1/2 in glutes.
    This is what worries me about SC T injections. I've heard this before and it makes sense when you think about it.

  21. #21
    GotNoBlueMilk is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    I do get a lump sometimes. And for me, it is definately related to low E2! When my E2 goes low I get a lump with subq. When it goes really low I get a bigger lump. The lump itches, but doesn't hurt or anything.

    Not sure why lovbyts would have had pain. I never had any pain from a subq injection or from a lump.

  22. #22
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    HitIt is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    i've been injecting sc for months at .4 ml twice a week right side of belly..left side gets b12 and hcg ...the test e absorbs almost as readily as the h20 based injections...i use .5cc 29g 1/2' slin pins for everything...can't imagine having to jab muscle twice a week as opposed to jabbing passive tissue like fat....no nerves or vessels to worry about...smaller cheaper needles...no soreness...win win really

    milk, i get a lump..it's just the depot that gets smaller as it's absorbed...but hcg and b12 also leave lumps...but the water based depot is gone in an hour on me..the oil depot stays for hours but is gone the next day

    lov probably just had a bad reaction and won't know if it was a one time thing till he tries again

    edit: btw, i don't think i'd want to inject oil sc if it were more than .75ml (twice a week)..i would go im if were injecting more...water based sc 1ml is ok for me
    Last edited by HitIt; 06-04-2011 at 01:43 PM.

  23. #23
    lovbyts's Avatar
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    I did do 1ml, not .5ml Not sure why it would make that much of a difference though but yeah it was sore to the touch and a nice little lump for several days if not a full week. I MAY try .5ml again sometime but for now 1ml in the quads work fine 1x a week.

  24. #24
    GotNoBlueMilk is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    My lump is a reaction, probably to the cotton oil. It isn't there after the shot, it starts developing hours later. The next day it is at a max, and takes about 3 days to disappear. And it itches! Like I said, when my E2 is fine I never get any reaction.

  25. #25
    DragonRider is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imatk View Post
    He instructed me, when I inject, to flex the leg and insert the needle into my quad (Vastus Medialis is the medical term for the muscle he showed me) and then inject it.
    I was just wondering if any of you guys do it this way and if so have you experienced the same problem? Am I doing something wrong? Or should I just go back to weekly in the butt?
    That's crazy. You never inject into a flexed muscle. When a nurse gives you a shot, they tell you to relax, not to flex. I use insulin syringes, but I inject in my shoulders and outer thighs (fully relaxed). I have never had any pain.

  26. #26
    HitIt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovbyts View Post
    I did do 1ml, not .5ml Not sure why it would make that much of a difference though but yeah it was sore to the touch and a nice little lump for several days if not a full week. I MAY try .5ml again sometime but for now 1ml in the quads work fine 1x a week.
    if it ain't broke they say..

    Quote Originally Posted by GotNoBlueMilk View Post
    My lump is a reaction, probably to the cotton oil. It isn't there after the shot, it starts developing hours later. The next day it is at a max, and takes about 3 days to disappear. And it itches! Like I said, when my E2 is fine I never get any reaction.
    odd...maybe you and lov are just allergic enough to the oil not to be able to tolerate it with a subq depot without a histamine reaction...i imagine the oil is dispersed much faster in the active domain of muscle tissue as compared to fat

    as for depot lumps, the skinnier you are the more you'll feel one..i can even see my depot in the mirror when my bf is 12% or below
    Last edited by HitIt; 06-05-2011 at 05:28 PM.

  27. #27
    Script is offline New Member
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    Deleted double post.
    Last edited by Script; 06-05-2011 at 10:23 PM. Reason: Double post

  28. #28
    Script is offline New Member
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    If there is no difference between IM and SubC, why not use a 1/2" slin pin and shoot into the glute? I've been using the upper quad but sometimes I get a painful lump. I'm very lean in the legs and would prefer using the glutes.
    Last edited by Script; 06-05-2011 at 10:20 PM.

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