Clomid Instead of TRT ??!!

[double chicken]

I saw Eurologist today. Because I am still young and want to have additional children he didnt want me to start TRT. He gave me a script for Clomid 25mg ED. I am supposed to get BW again in 3 months. I am fine taking baby steps especially if the Clomid works.
Has anyone else tried this approach to their low t?
If so how did work for you?

Any other thoughts?

[38jumper38]

what's your age?

[double chicken]

what's your age?

33, I will turn 34 in September.

[38jumper38]

You need to find another doctor, there is nothing wrong at your age to have testosterone shots and some HCG to keep yours testiculos healthy and function, you can have that, and by the time you decide to have kids, come out of testosterone for while and have some hcg, you will have kids, and my have you wife pregnant during trt with no problem.

[double chicken]

You need to find another doctor, there is nothing wrong at your age to have testosterone shots and some HCG to keep yours testiculos healthy and function, you can have that, and by the time you decide to have kids, come out of testosterone for while and have some hcg, you will have kids, and my have you wife pregnant during trt with no problem.

so you dont think the Clomid will do the trick?

[38jumper38]

so you dont think the Clomid will do the trick?

you can give a try, but test will be much better, what's your test levels?

[double chicken]

total test 344 (249-836) this was the highest reading i have had in 3 years.
Free test 6.9 (8.7-25.1)

[lifter65]

double chicken... listen to your doc and do what he says, you've found a gem
dont hop on the shots yet, try other ways first before you shoot up with test
and you will never know how good something will work till you try it

[funkymonk]

Clomid may very well prevent you from having to be on TRT for life if its successful in restarting your HPTA.

[GotNoBlueMilk]

The issue is what was your LH and FSH. If they were low, Clomid will stimulate the pituitary, raise LH, and get the T levels to rise. So it's worth a shot. See where it goes. If it works and you don't have nasty sides you could be better off on this route.

HRT is for life, and much harder to control.

[terraj]

Clomid is a good call, your endo is smarter then most.

[Fit N Fun]

Clomid + Tamoxifen is the standard PCT ( post cycle therapy ) to bring your testosterone levels back to normal after a cycle, I will not quote the dosage since they are copied over this board hundreds of times.

Do yourself a favour and read some threads in the PCT section of this forum.

Keep your eye open for any threads started by or being commented on by Swifto, he is the PCT guru on this forum.

You may want to consider a PCT, its the most likely thing that most of us know about that will return your testosterone levels to normal.

You have not said why your test levels are low, you might get a more complete answer to your question if you tell us about your use of steriods and your understanding of the problem

[double chicken]

the issue is what was your lh and fsh. If they were low, clomid will stimulate the pituitary, raise lh, and get the t levels to rise. So it's worth a shot. See where it goes. If it works and you don't have nasty sides you could be better off on this route.

Hrt is for life, and much harder to control.

lh 2.9 (1.7-8.6)
fsh 6.1 (1.5-12.4)

[GotNoBlueMilk]

LH is an issue. So was mine. Clomid or hCG would probably worked for me. Go with the clomid and see how you feel. Good luck and please follow up with another post after your followup bloodwork. I am curious to see how well it works.

[double chicken]

LH is an issue. So was mine. Clomid or hCG would probably worked for me. Go with the clomid and see how you feel. Good luck and please follow up with another post after your followup bloodwork. I am curious to see how well it works.

yeah, I will keep you posted. My next BW isnt scheduled until October 12th (3 months) I will also keep you posted to how I am feeling after 6 weeks.

[double chicken]

A study I found that made me feel better about my clomid treatment:


Clomiphene citrate effects on testosterone /estrogen ratio in male hypogonadism, Shabsigh A, Kang Y, Shabsign R, Gonzalez M, Liberson G, Fisch H, Goluboff E., J Sex Med. 2005 Sep;2(5):716-21.

AIM: Symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism is associated not only with a decline in serum testosterone, but also with a rise in serum estradiol. These endocrine changes negatively affect libido, sexual function, mood, behavior, lean body mass, and bone density. Currently, the most common treatment is exogenous testosterone therapy . This treatment can be associated with skin irritation, gynecomastia , nipple tenderness, testicular atrophy, and decline in sperm counts. In this study we investigated the efficacy of clomiphene citrate in the treatment of hypogonadism with the objectives of raising endogenous serum testosterone (T) and improving the testosterone/estrogen (T/E) ratio. METHODS: Our cohort consisted of 36 Caucasian men with hypogonadism defined as serum testosterone level less than 300 ng/dL. Each patient was treated with a daily dose of 25 mg clomiphene citrate and followed prospectively. Analysis of baseline and follow-up serum levels of testosterone and estradiol levels were performed.

RESULTS: The mean age was 39 years, and the mean pretreatment testosterone and estrogen levels were 247.6 +/- 39.8 ng/dL and 32.3 +/- 10.9, respectively. By the first follow-up visit (4-6 weeks), the mean testosterone level rose to 610.0 +/- 178.6 ng/dL (P < 0.00001). Moreover, the T/E ratio improved from 8.7 to 14.2 (P < 0.001). There were no side effects reported by the patients.

CONCLUSIONS: Low dose clomiphene citrate is effective in elevating serum testosterone levels and improving the testosterone/estradiol ratio in men with hypogonadism.This therapy represents an alternative to testosterone therapy by stimulating the endogenous androgen production pathway.

[bass]

The issue is what was your LH and FSH. If they were low, Clomid will stimulate the pituitary, raise LH, and get the T levels to rise. So it's worth a shot. See where it goes. If it works and you don't have nasty sides you could be better off on this route.

HRT is for life, and much harder to control.

i agree, TRT is the last option! see what happens with what your doc is recommending and go from there!

[double chicken]

after 4 weeks of clomid I put on 5 lbs, probably water weight though I look healthier.
Tomorrow will be 7 weeks and I am now up 7 lbs.

I am feeling a little bit better in life. Once again I am looking forward to working out and working out harder although this could be due to the excitement of my increased weight. Still dont feel 100%.

Over last 4 days i have felt increased sensitivity in my nipples so I am going to go see the doctor this week and get my Estodiol checked and then see if he can get me a script for an AI.

Any thoughts?

[GotNoBlueMilk]

do you have baseline body fat % values? Just curious if the 7 lbs is fat or muscle too. How is the belt and pants fitting?

Tender nipples would be an E2 alarm.

[double chicken]

do you have baseline body fat % values? Just curious if the 7 lbs is fat or muscle too. How is the belt and pants fitting?

Tender nipples would be an E2 alarm.

I dont have a baseline for body fat %, but the belt and pants have not changed in size. There is no question that my upper body, chest, shoulders, back etc have thickened up BUT it could just be water weight from Clomid.

E2 is Estrodial correct? I wanna make sure I am getting correct items checked when i get bloodwork taken.

[bass]

yes E2=Estrodial.

belt being same size but weigh more is a good sign!

[GotNoBlueMilk]

Yes, this is a big plus. 7 lbs of water is a lot of water!

If you get E2 checked, make sure it is the ultasensative estrodial test. W/O the "ultasensative" it is only good if your E2 is above 50 (female values).

[Swifto]

Start the Clomid right away, I'd do 50mg/ED for 1-2 weeks, then down to 25mg/ED for 3months and get BW done as directed by your doc.

There are many many studies done on hypogondal males using Clomid and it working, preventing them going on HRT.

As said above, HRT is a final option.

[double chicken]

Yes, this is a big plus. 7 lbs of water is a lot of water!

If you get E2 checked, make sure it is the ultasensative estrodial test. W/O the "ultasensative" it is only good if your E2 is above 50 (female values).

Thanks, that was the kind of information I was looking for!

[double chicken]

Start the Clomid right away, I'd do 50mg/ED for 1-2 weeks, then down to 25mg/ED for 3months and get BW done as directed by your doc.

There are many many studies done on hypogondal males using Clomid and it working, preventing them going on HRT.

As said above, HRT is a final option.

Swifto -
I have been on clomid 25mg/ED for the last 7 weeks.
In the last 5 days I am starting to feel a little sensitivity in my nipples.

[double chicken]

total test 344 (249-836) this was the highest reading i have had in 3 years.
Free test 6.9 (8.7-25.1)

I had a regular checkup with my general practitioner and had been on clomid for 5 weeks. So I went ahead and had bloodwork done and here are the new results after 5 weeks of clomid:

Total Test 520.44 (350-890)
Free Test 100.8 (47-244)

The ranges changed for whatever reason. But the Test has improved a little bit.

[double chicken]

I wrote my doc a level asking him to up my dosage to 50 mg a week. He agreed and i started that dosage last Thursday!
Hopefully this does the trick.

[Fred40]

For the people this does work for....do they usually end up on TRT in the long run?

I wonder if this would be a better option for me but at the same time I'm 10 years older (44). My numbers were similar (slightly higher even).

[Fit N Fun]

Really am struggling with why you would not use the standard PCT recommended and used by most members on this forum.

Get your testicles back up to size with HCG , then :-

Week 1-6 Tamoxifen 20mg/ED (40mg/ED week 1)
Week 1-6 Clomid 25mg/ED (50mg/ED week 1)
Tribulus (Sopharma) 1g/ED
Ashwagandha RE 2g/ED

Not saying your doc is not on the right track, but he is under dosing you.

Clomid has bad sides for me, it completely destroys my Libido, but this recovers quickly a couple of weeks after PCT is finished.

You could also throw in some Low dose Naltrexone, which kept my HPTA functioning throughout my last cycle and would do you no harm, although this is not something that is done by anyone else I know.

[Fred40]

Really am struggling with why you would not use the standard PCT recommended and used by most members on this forum.

Because he's not doing this for PCT he's doing this for long term (forever) Testosterone boost vs. actually doing a standard TRT protocol. For some men Clomid alone appears to work very well......for others it does almost nothing. Everyone is different but it would seem that Clomid might be a better approach IF it works for you.

[Fit N Fun]

Still cannot see why a PCT should not be done to get the best out of your system.

If it were me, I would think Clomid was not working since my Libido goes through the floor, its not till I come off that I get my system back to normal.

Clomid is great for making my balls swell though, they look like Victoria plumbs after a couple of weeks when combined with Tamoxifen

[Fred40]

But what levels were you taking?

Too much = crappy libido with Clomid

[Fit N Fun]

I take the standard PCT levels of Tamoxifine and Clomid that I posted above

[double chicken]

For the people this does work for....do they usually end up on TRT in the long run?

I wonder if this would be a better option for me but at the same time I'm 10 years older (44). My numbers were similar (slightly higher even).

You should give it a try. If it works it will keep you from having to do TRT. I have done as much reading as I can on Clomid used for this purpose and I have not come across any information that states one way or another on the 'long wrong TRT'?
I have put on 9 lbs and am seeing the effects in my workouts. I am super psyched.

[double chicken]

I take the standard PCT levels of Tamoxifine and Clomid that I posted above

I have done two PCTs in the past and a few months after PCT my test levels drop down to 300s again. I am giving the Clomid a try and so far so good. My balls look like victoria plumbs too! Also my labido is doing great. I get random wood which is awesome!

[im83931]

Sounds like the clomid is a good plan for you, I would stick with the doc and see how it works.

[double chicken]

I have now been on 50mg clomid for two weeks.
Unfortunately my libido has decreased and I am starting to break out on my face, shoulders and back.
Not happy about these situations.

[VMAAG]

double chicken... listen to your doc and do what he says, you've found a gem
dont hop on the shots yet, try other ways first before you shoot up with test
and you will never know how good something will work till you try it

I'm in agreement with the above psot ESPECIALLY since you want more kids. Onyl thing you might change is get retested in 2 months instead of 3 months.

[GotNoBlueMilk]

I have now been on 50mg clomid for two weeks.
Unfortunately my libido has decreased and I am starting to break out on my face, shoulders and back.
Not happy about these situations.

Breakouts are indicitive of higher Test levels; low libido could be from increased E2 or directly from clomid. Can't help on which one.

I have reviewed some studies on Clomid treatment for low Test. Turns out it is more affective for younger males than older males. In fact, it has a good success rate for younger males. Us old farts, not so good. I also uncovered that taking the dose too high is counter productive. So don't go off script thinking 250 mg is better than 25., and 500 is better than 50. It isn't!

[double chicken]

Breakouts are indicitive of higher Test levels; low libido could be from increased E2 or directly from clomid. Can't help on which one.

I have reviewed some studies on Clomid treatment for low Test. Turns out it is more affective for younger males than older males. In fact, it has a good success rate for younger males. Us old farts, not so good. I also uncovered that taking the dose too high is counter productive. So don't go off script thinking 250 mg is better than 25., and 500 is better than 50. It isn't!

I appreciate the feedback and will stick to the 50 mg. I will report back with my next bloodwork!