Currently running no AI---water retention?

[funkymonk]

I'm currently @ 100mg EW.

4 days after injection:
total test: 829 (300-836)
e2: 50.6 (3-70)
free test is at the very top of normal range

prior to TRT:
total test: 290 (300-836)
e2: 26 (3-70)

I'm asymptomatic for the most part (no nipple tenderness, no weird fat distribution).

I feel like I'm retaining a lot of water though, does that seem reasonable?
-gained like 10lbs within a week or two of proper TRT
-I look "puffier" than I used to
-blood pressure is higher (like +10 diastolic/systolic)
-increased vascularity (RBC has not moved)
-I sweat TONS now, more than I ever have before


I'm seeing the endo on Monday, and want to hit him up for an AI script. He decided not to test for e2/etc before since I had absolutely no nipple tenderness or ED problems.

[im83931]

It sounds like water. When I have used test before I blew up with water.

[zaggahamma]

It sounds like water. When I have used test before I blew up with water.

x2...
i caught mine before i blew up....i'd get an ai asap if i were you broski.... i would hate for my hardwork to be covered with chipmunk cheeks and michelin man arms

[steroid.com 1]

Remember: E--->T. How long have you been on this protocol? How old are you? HCG since you're in HPTA shut down???

Is your Endo familar with proper TRT Protocols?

[funkymonk]

21 years old
Been on TRT for almost 9 months now, been on the proper dosage of Cyp for the last 3 of those 9.
He decided against an AI initially since I was (and still am relatively) asymptomatic in regards to high estrogen symptoms
He his well aware of test and its effects (at least moreso than my other docs)--he ran bloods at different times in the week to get a full picture of my fluctuating levels, and measuring total/free/bioavail test.

I will talk to him about hCG once I get the AI squared aware. Every doc I've talked to about medications interprets my inquiries as self-diagnosis and like I'm sidestepping their expertise and simply reaching for their prescription pad. Seems to piss em off a tad.

Arimidex seems to be the more popular prescription, even though Aromasin in superior. Any way I can push for the Aromasin if he suggests Adex? Maybe express concern for my lipid levels?

[steroid.com 1]

21 years old
Been on TRT for almost 9 months now, been on the proper dosage of Cyp for the last 3 of those 9.
He decided against an AI initially since I was (and still am relatively) asymptomatic in regards to high estrogen symptoms
He his well aware of test and its effects (at least moreso than my other docs)--he ran bloods at different times in the week to get a full picture of my fluctuating levels, and measuring total/free/bioavail test.

I will talk to him about hCG once I get the AI squared aware. Every doc I've talked to about medications interprets my inquiries as self-diagnosis and like I'm sidestepping their expertise and simply reaching for their prescription pad. Seems to piss em off a tad.

Arimidex seems to be the more popular prescription, even though Aromasin in superior. Any way I can push for the Aromasin if he suggests Adex? Maybe express concern for my lipid levels?

At your age you MUST be on HCG! I can't stress that enough; your testicles will begin (if not already) to atrophy and if you ever want kids in the future or you ever want to re-start you need HCG to keep your testes functioning!

Best AI in my opinion is Anastrozole...for many reasons.

[funkymonk]

What reasons for Anastrazole would that be? It's cheaper and more tried-and-true, correct? I thought a suicidal AI like Aromasin was more preferable to competitive AIs due to the potential for rebound. Plus, I though Adex was a harsh(er) on lipid values?

I know about the hCG . I will talk to him about it. My prior doctor looked at me and said "...you mean for female fertility?" I didn't bother past that.

[Script]

Not everyone is symptomatic. I had no bloat, no nipple issues. Just really tired, and my E2 was over 130. Don't rely on nipple tenderness as a guide for your E levels.

GDevine, why anastrozole over aromisin?

[Bigfoot66]

And don't be surprised when you drop several pounds after being consistently on it for about 6 months. I thought I was losing the mass I had worked so hard to build. My lifting was the same so I knew it couldn't be mass.

[funkymonk]

And don't be surprised when you drop several pounds after being consistently on it for about 6 months. I thought I was losing the mass I had worked so hard to build. My lifting was the same so I knew it couldn't be mass.

That's the attitude I've taken with the added weight--my diet didn't change, nor did my training or sleep, therefore it must be water.

What reasons for Anastrazole would that be? It's cheaper and more tried-and-true, correct? I thought a suicidal AI like Aromasin was more preferable to competitive AIs due to the potential for rebound. Plus, I though Adex was a harsh(er) on lipid values?

I know about the hCG. I will talk to him about it. My prior doctor looked at me and said "...you mean for female fertility?" I didn't bother past that.

Upon further research, I've found the following:
-Adex can be dose fewer times (often times just once) a week, whereas Aromasin really shouldn't be
-Adex is self limiting
-Adex is cheaper
-Adex is more typically prescribed, which means more MDs know WTF they're doing with it

There's still the suicidal vs. competitive AI issue regarding rebound, but I'm not sure if that gets blown out of proportion or not, especially assuming that I'd be on it for life most likely.

[kelkel]

Funky, maybe I missed it, but is there any reason given for your test level to be so low at 21 yrs old? Were you cycling or is it just bad luck? Did your doctor delve into that?
Sure is a great test level 4 days after injection though!

[funkymonk]

Here's my story (since you asked):

-Obese as a child
-Got super self-conscious 1st year college, ate SUPER low fat (like 10-20g/day) and probably >1000 calories under maintenance most days, followed by periodic binges.
-Eventually got on a solid lifting routine and a diet program that wasn't murderous to my body (IE: healthy levels of fats and calories)
-tried the natural test boosters Thermolife T-BOL and Biotive Bioforge (useless, harmless)
-continued to spin wheels, said "f!@# it" and decided to run a prohormone
-everything was all set to go, and my independent pre-cycle bloodwork showed LH at like 1.7, test at just under 300, and e2 at 26. Rather than proceeding with the prohormone, I sought out medical counsel
-the referral didn't go through for the endo on my HMO, so we settled for the urologist. Subsequent blood tests indicated secondary hypogonadism, but the cause is undiagnosed to this date. I hopped on TRT out of the gates instead of trying restart protocols.

I am meeting with my excellent endo (finally got him ) this Monday, to discuss:
-how to diagnose my hypogonadism. I want to make sure I don't have a malignant pituitary gland tumor
-the water retention issues
-hCG

[ironaddict69]

I too am young like you, have high E2 levels with none of the sides. I rarely ever run an AI because they tend to dry me out too much and give me joint issues. I wonder though, if I would gain more muscle with having the E2 lower. I know I am stronger when it is higher and my muscles seem much fuller and thicker. Let me know what you find out, I am in the same boat as you funky. What dose test are you on?

[funkymonk]

Went to the doc this morning. He spent over 20 minutes answering most of my questions. He still stands by his philosophy of "less is more" for prescribed meds. I respect him for both of these reasons, despite the fact that I'm sure he'd make more money if he spent less time per patient and gave out more prescriptions.

Issues discussed:
-causes---he said it's a little late now, but we can go ahead and see what we can determine. He ordered a pituitary MRI to set me at ease, but said it's unlikely to show anything abnormal since my TSH and prolactin are right in the midrange, and since my preTRT test was "lowish" instead of abysmal.

-AI and bloating issues---basically wrote it off since I have no swelling in the ankles, and since my BP has not gone up too much. He's testing for estrogen during my next bloods, at the end of September, and we'll go from there. He did admit that I do have a bit of glanduar gyno tissue (preexisting), and just to keep an eye on it, although I shouldn't worry since it's not sensitive in the least. He said there's always the option of reducing weekly test dosage or injecting less frequently (yeah, right)

-hCG ---he said that unless I wanted kids in the near future, he'd rather me stay off of it and avoid having the extra 2-3 injections weekly. He said it's definitely something he would support in the future, although a reproductive endocrinologist would be the one to talk with.

I've decided to see how these bloods turn out, and I can falsify symptoms if I really want to get the AI. I'm refuse to self medicate w/ Adex/Asin since longterm it's not a sustainable strategy, and I'm not really "suffering" right now (beyond the bloating, I feel great). I'm getting new insurance in a 6-8 weeks anyway, so I'll always have the option of uh..."shopping around" for a dr. comfortable with my suggested test/AI/hCG regimen.

I'm just glad that we're getting the MRI done on insurance's bill. Thanks for the support everyone!
BTW, my parents and dr. both mentioned that a "big" part of the initial 10lb weight gain appears to be muscle. Whether or not it is, at least it's not all bad. Weird thing is I'm more defined everywhere except my gut/chest.

I too am young like you, have high E2 levels with none of the sides. I rarely ever run an AI because they tend to dry me out too much and give me joint issues. I wonder though, if I would gain more muscle with having the E2 lower. I know I am stronger when it is higher and my muscles seem much fuller and thicker. Let me know what you find out, I am in the same boat as you funky. What dose test are you on?

100mg Cyp EW

[NOSUPERMODEL]

Went to the doc this morning. He spent over 20 minutes answering most of my questions. He still stands by his philosophy of "less is more" for prescribed meds. I respect him for both of these reasons, despite the fact that I'm sure he'd make more money if he spent less time per patient and gave out more prescriptions.

Issues discussed:
-causes---he said it's a little late now, but we can go ahead and see what we can determine. He ordered a pituitary MRI to set me at ease, but said it's unlikely to show anything abnormal since my TSH and prolactin are right in the midrange, and since my preTRT test was "lowish" instead of abysmal.

-AI and bloating issues---basically wrote it off since I have no swelling in the ankles, and since my BP has not gone up too much. He's testing for estrogen during my next bloods, at the end of September, and we'll go from there. He did admit that I do have a bit of glanduar gyno tissue (preexisting), and just to keep an eye on it, although I shouldn't worry since it's not sensitive in the least. He said there's always the option of reducing weekly test dosage or injecting less frequently (yeah, right)

-hCG ---he said that unless I wanted kids in the near future, he'd rather me stay off of it and avoid having the extra 2-3 injections weekly. He said it's definitely something he would support in the future, although a reproductive endocrinologist would be the one to talk with.

I've decided to see how these bloods turn out, and I can falsify symptoms if I really want to get the AI. I'm refuse to self medicate w/ Adex/Asin since longterm it's not a sustainable strategy, and I'm not really "suffering" right now (beyond the bloating, I feel great). I'm getting new insurance in a 6-8 weeks anyway, so I'll always have the option of uh..."shopping around" for a dr. comfortable with my suggested test/AI/hCG regimen.

I'm just glad that we're getting the MRI done on insurance's bill. Thanks for the support everyone!
BTW, my parents and dr. both mentioned that a "big" part of the initial 10lb weight gain appears to be muscle. Whether or not it is, at least it's not all bad. Weird thing is I'm more defined everywhere except my gut/chest.



100mg Cyp EW

I get swelling in the ankles and feet in a bad waaay and I am on an AI.

[funkymonk]

I get swelling in the ankles and feet in a bad waaay and I am on an AI.

0_o dose is too low perhaps?

[kelkel]

Funky I've got that Pituitary tumor your discussing. It shut me down to a 59 T level. Much longer my doc said I would have been at zero. Lovely. Be a good thing for you to get the mri done and rule it out. Good luck man!