Bioidentical replacement therapy

**daytrader** · 09-19-2011, 05:27 PM

I know there is not a lot of information out there on it, but im willing to give it a shot

I am 26 y/o and my test levels are 511 ng/dl w/ free test at 11 pg/ml. I've barely cycled in the past and havent touched anything for over 2 years, and done 1 test cycle at 250 as my heaviest.

While these numbers are on the lowside of acceptable, i have a lot of symptoms of low test, mainly how i feel, loss of focus, horrible recovery time, moody, fatigue, no motivation etc..

I'm getting a bit desperate, lets face it, at my levels i will never get prescribed HRT and i'm not willing to cycle ever as i feel its a short term fix, Im looking for a permanent solultion... I don't care from results a weight gaining or bodybuilding perspective, i just want to feel great, be motivated at work and get through every day! Any insight would be greatly appreciated, really lost as to what to do.

**kelkel** · 09-19-2011, 06:37 PM

Free test seems low for your age. You need to post full bloodwork so the guys here can review it (redact the personal stuff obviously) as some are very adept at it. TRT is for life and you need to find the root cause before you jump on this bandwagon.

**daytrader** · 09-19-2011, 07:13 PM

I will get these scanned and post them up tomm, here are the most interesting:

Test - 511
free test - 11.4
androstane- 614
estrogen- 46.7
DHT- 41.

I had high iron levels per test, so i went and saw a specialist, but everything came back normal so thats not the cause

**steroid.com 1** · 09-19-2011, 07:28 PM

Need ranges and complete BW.

E2 is probably high and why you feel like you do.

You may do well on an HCG mono-therapy since you still producing. That and controlled E2 and I'll bet you feel like a new man.

There are clinics that will help you if you have the money for it.

**VMAAG** · 09-20-2011, 01:45 PM

Your E2 is very high so once you get that under control you will probably see an increase in your Free T. Also I'd suggest a blood test of FSH/LH and Prolactin to be sure there are no pituitary issues

**bass** · 09-20-2011, 02:08 PM

i agree with GD and VM regarding E2!

**Fred40** · 09-20-2011, 02:16 PM

Was that a sensitive E2 test?

**daytrader** · 09-20-2011, 03:45 PM

thanks all very much, here some of the more pertinent numbers and the ones that stood out as being low or bad, everything else seemed fine including cholesterol, thyroid etc.... Just for clarification, when you say e2 is high your referring to my estrogen levels? Kind of odd, i never exhibited any physical traits of high estrogen but ill have to take a look into this. This was done at LabCorp

test 511 scale: 249-836 ng/dl pg/mL

TSH: 1.81 scale: .45-4.5 uIU/mL

FSH: 4.5 scale: 1.5-12.4 uIU/mL

Estradiol: 46.7 scale: 7.6-42.6 pg/ml

Dihydrotestosterone: 41 scale: 30-85 ng/dL

Free test: 13.4 scale: 9.3-26.5 pg/mL

Andorstane Diol Glucuronide: 619 scale: 340-3300 ng/dL

Sex Horm Binding Glob serum: 31.5 scale: 14.5-48.5 nmol/L

**Far from massive** · 09-20-2011, 04:17 PM

Are you eating a lot of Soy, using tea tree shampoos, smoking the marijuana or addicted to sex either masturbation or otherwise? Any of these things can cause high estro.

**bass** · 09-20-2011, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Far from massive

Are you eating a lot of Soy, using tea tree shampoos, smoking the marijuana or addicted to sex either masturbation or otherwise? Any of these things can cause high estro.

SEX increases your E2? shit!

**daytrader** · 09-20-2011, 04:26 PM

no to those except the two:

I "bust" around 10ish times a week(some weeks closer to 14), one way or another

And smoking, i use to smoke weed before bed a few times a week, i dont anymore. At the time this test was taken i would estimate i had not smoked in days if not weeks, could be wrong there, although never smoked much

**OutLaw8.5** · 09-20-2011, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by bass

SEX increases your E2? shit!

YEah me too? I thought sex was good for reducing stress amongst other things and would help keeping e2 in check

**steroid.com 1** · 09-21-2011, 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by far from massive

are you eating a lot of soy, using tea tree shampoos, smoking the marijuana or addicted to sex either masturbation or otherwise? Any of these things can cause high estro.

wtf?

**bass** · 09-21-2011, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by gdevine

wtf?

LOL GD! are you doing all these things?!

**daytrader** · 09-21-2011, 08:02 PM

any more input is welcome.. heres my deal

i have a integrative medicine doc who will give me bio test... he says at 26 my test levels should be higher than 500 and im on the low side despite falling within the "normal range", and i would be good in the 7-800 level for my age... i would bet i've had lower test my whole life and im sick of it.

I really want to do this, ive been contemplating it for atleaast a year, but i still have a ton of doubts. My primary doc has been a long time friend, i made an appt with him for next week. I think im going to go in there with all my blood work and explain my situation to him, how i feel, and back it up with the tests. I know he wont put me on but i want to get his opinion as to what road i should go down or pursue. Should i look to lower my e? try the bios? etc..
I think i will look to get my test run again, just to see if the numbers are much different.

**steroid.com 1** · 09-22-2011, 06:12 AM

Originally Posted by daytrader

thanks all very much, here some of the more pertinent numbers and the ones that stood out as being low or bad, everything else seemed fine including cholesterol, thyroid etc.... Just for clarification, when you say e2 is high your referring to my estrogen levels? Kind of odd, i never exhibited any physical traits of high estrogen but ill have to take a look into this. This was done at LabCorp

test 511 scale: 249-836 ng/dl pg/mL

TSH: 1.81 scale: .45-4.5 uIU/mL

FSH: 4.5 scale: 1.5-12.4 uIU/mL

Estradiol: 46.7 scale: 7.6-42.6 pg/ml

Dihydrotestosterone: 41 scale: 30-85 ng/dL

Free test: 13.4 scale: 9.3-26.5 pg/mL

Andorstane Diol Glucuronide: 619 scale: 340-3300 ng/dL

Sex Horm Binding Glob serum: 31.5 scale: 14.5-48.5 nmol/L

Other then high E2 (Estradiol) I don't see anything here that is of real concern. Low for your age...maybe, but nothing alarming. I'd like to see LH range? More complete Thyroid panels. Remember, these are just "snap shots" of where you were at the exact moment the blood was drawn so you could be higher...or maybe lower.

Get your E2 down to 23 pg/ml and it will get your total Test higher. You'll feel better as well.

**kelkel** · 09-22-2011, 08:39 AM

GD, based on the above given stats, if E2 is brought down like you suggest. How much higher can that possibly raise his T level if your cutting his E2 in half. Can you ballpark that by chance?

**steroid.com 1** · 09-22-2011, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by kelkel

GD, based on the above given stats, if E2 is brought down like you suggest. How much higher can that possibly raise his T level if your cutting his E2 in half. Can you ballpark that by chance?

Not a clue Kel. It's different for all men as all us metabolize differently. Without question though, he will see a rise in Total T once he gets his aromatase enzymes under control.

**daytrader** · 09-22-2011, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by gdevine

Other then high E2 (Estradiol) I don't see anything here that is of real concern. Low for your age...maybe, but nothing alarming. I'd like to see LH range? More complete Thyroid panels. Remember, these are just "snap shots" of where you were at the exact moment the blood was drawn so you could be higher...or maybe lower.

Get your E2 down to 23 pg/ml and it will get your total Test higher. You'll feel better as well.

Thanks for the input Gdevine, its so nice to get a good opinion on the boards, unbiased.

So how should i go about doing this? You mentioned HCG , i thought this could potentially raise estrogen?

Should i see if my doc will help me out, or attempt to go the ug route? I have ug nolva/clomid but i dont think i want to use it as i never fully trusted the maker/ the dosing could be off... if you were in my shoes, what route would you go to get your e2 lowered?

BTW this blood was taken first thing am on empty stomach, you dont think my total test is low for my age if its accurate? I read the average test for a 50 yo male is 540.

**bass** · 09-22-2011, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by daytrader

Thanks for the input Gdevine, its so nice to get a good opinion on the boards, unbiased.

So how should i go about doing this? You mentioned HCG , i thought this could potentially raise estrogen?

Should i see if my doc will help me out, or attempt to go the ug route? I have ug nolva/clomid but i dont think i want to use it as i never fully trusted the maker/ the dosing could be off... if you were in my shoes, what route would you go to get your e2 lowered?

BTW this blood was taken first thing am on empty stomach, you dont think my total test is low for my age if its accurate? I read the average test for a 50 yo male is 540.

i would demand an E2 test! did you know you can demand that from your doctor? and he has to do it if you have a reasonable concern, if he doesn't he will be liable if something happens to you. I've never been turned down asking for blood work. just be demanding. and once he sees your e2 is high he'll have no choice but to order AI.

**steroid.com 1** · 09-23-2011, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by daytrader

Thanks for the input Gdevine, its so nice to get a good opinion on the boards, unbiased.

So how should i go about doing this? You mentioned HCG , i thought this could potentially raise estrogen?

Should i see if my doc will help me out, or attempt to go the ug route? I have ug nolva/clomid but i dont think i want to use it as i never fully trusted the maker/ the dosing could be off... if you were in my shoes, what route would you go to get your e2 lowered?

BTW this blood was taken first thing am on empty stomach, you dont think my total test is low for my age if its accurate? I read the average test for a 50 yo male is 540.

I do not endorse self medication or protocols. I nor you are a Doctor and all should be under the supervision of a trained medical practitioner IMO.

I think if you can lower your E2 everything else will fall in-line. One thing at a time...

Get a low dose AI...say .5 mg / week... and retest in 6 weeks.