DHEA and TRT

**steroid.com 1** · 07-22-2011, 05:06 PM

Guys - Here's a link to a good read and what you should know about DHEA. Leading TRT Docs (like Crisler) are prescribing 50 mg daily of DHEA for thier patients.

In shut down, even with HCG (and you need HCG in shut down for the production of Pregnenolone which converts to DHEA) men should still supplement with DHEA. Suggested is two 25 mg per day split in the morning and mid afternoon (really supper short half life!).

Enjoy: http://www.lef.org/protocols/metabol...oration_01.htm

**Bigfoot66** · 07-22-2011, 05:28 PM

Now I understand why my dr has me on it tho only 25 mg a day. I guess I could up it and see if there's any differences. U can buy o/c and is cheap.

**bass** · 07-22-2011, 05:51 PM

very interesting! i will finish reading the whole article later. is it expensive?

**zaggahamma** · 07-22-2011, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by bass

very interesting! i will finish reading the whole article later. is it expensive?

no bro..on the contrare

**steroid.com 1** · 07-22-2011, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by bass

very interesting! i will finish reading the whole article later. is it expensive?

Nope and it's really good for you Bass for a lot of reasons (especailly older guys as DHEA production slows down like everything else). Some guys have stated that they even felt better once they started adding DHEA to their protocol.

Make no mistake, it is a hormone and is very anabolic at that!

Finish reading it man!

**zaggahamma** · 07-22-2011, 07:06 PM

g...i'm on amazon looking at it now...would you say that all/most brands are safe and free from fake?

**steroid.com 1** · 07-22-2011, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by jpkman

g...i'm on amazon looking at it now...would you say that all/most brands are safe and free from fake?

You know, I buy all my supps at Vitamin Shoppe. Huge inventory from some of the best mfgs, good prices and a great rewards program. Get the 25 mg Jman and twice a day.

I think you're good with any name brand someone like Carelsons for example.

**jimmyinkedup** · 07-22-2011, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by gdevine

Nope and it's really good for you Bass for a lot of reasons (especailly older guys as DHEA production slows down like everything else). Some guys have stated that they even felt better once they started adding DHEA to their protocol.

Make no mistake, it is a hormone and is very anabolic at that!

Finish reading it man!

While I agree it can be helpful in certain situations (trt , older males , even on cycle for some) do not believe all you read - it can be spun to be "very anabolic " but the fact is it isnt. Its a precursor that has to convert to andro then to test. The conversion to test is minimal. It affords 2 opportunites to aromatize to estrogen and 2 opportunites to be 5 alpha reduced to dht. The precursors in and of themselve (dhea and andro) have very little anabolic properties whatsoever and niether do the dhea metabolites it can be broken down into. Again im not saying it doesnt have its place but in the real world it surely isnt all its being hyped to be in the literature you are reading.

**zaggahamma** · 07-22-2011, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

While I agree it can be helpful in certain situations (trt , older males , even on cycle for some) do not believe all you read - it can be spun to be "very anabolic" but the fact is it isnt. Its a precursor that has to convert to andro then to test. The conversion to test is minimal. It affords 2 opportunites to aromatize to estrogen and 2 opportunites to be 5 alpha reduced to dht. The precursors in and of themselve (dhea and andro) have very little anabolic properties whatsoever and niether do the dhea metabolites it can be broken down into. Again im not saying it doesnt have its place but in the real world it surely isnt all its being hyped to be in the literature you are reading.

thanks for adding that jimmy....how do you feel it fits in with trt to be specific

**Ashop** · 07-22-2011, 07:53 PM

I'm not a big fan of DHEA myself.

**zaggahamma** · 07-22-2011, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by ****

I'm not a big fan of DHEA myself.

pretty deep ****

**lifter65** · 07-22-2011, 08:28 PM

i would go with the cream, which ill be doing soon most likely
ive read that the pills get excreted way faster from the system than cream... any truth to that?

**zaggahamma** · 07-22-2011, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by lifter65

i would go with the cream, which ill be doing soon most likely
ive read that the pills get excreted way faster from the system than cream... any truth to that?

**jimmyinkedup** · 07-22-2011, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by jpkman

thanks for adding that jimmy....how do you feel it fits in with trt to be specific

To be honest I personally dont think it does. However I have heard others (some very respected people btw) say they feel it does. The main justification i can see in anti aging / trt would be that in converting to estrone it stimualtes osteoblast acivity and therefor bone growth. This could potwentially offset osteoperosis. However it should be mentioned that testosterone itself increases osteoblast activity - so i dont get it. Other say it converts to androgens and estrogens and to an extent allows the body to self regulate - but it seems to me since those on trt are introducing an exogenous androgen this theory sort of goes out the window. Another theory is it reduces lethargy - i could only see this being the case if one was shut down with the absence of testosterone - not shut down because of taking exogenous test. Honestly on trt or on cycle including test i can only see it increasing estrogen. I mainly see it useful to men in their 40's and up who take it since natural levels have declined (those not on trt). Now again this is just my opinion - i also recall Swifto posting something a while ago about it having its place for some on cycle - again if the cycle includes test i dont get it - but he knows his stuff. Im by no means an expert but these are my opinions. Maybe Swifto will weigh in.

**Bigfoot66** · 07-22-2011, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by jpkman

g...i'm on amazon looking at it now...would you say that all/most brands are safe and free from fake?

Walmart and Walgreens have them...2 for 1...90 25mg pills per bottle

**lifter65** · 07-22-2011, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by jpkman

i read that on the muscle chat room
the creams get absorbed way better and the pills dont get used as well, im pretty sure

**zaggahamma** · 07-23-2011, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

To be honest I personally dont think it does. However I have heard others (some very respected people btw) say they feel it does. The main justification i can see in anti aging / trt would be that in converting to estrone it stimualtes osteoblast acivity and therefor bone growth. This could potwentially offset osteoperosis. However it should be mentioned that testosterone itself increases osteoblast activity - so i dont get it. Other say it converts to androgens and estrogens and to an extent allows the body to self regulate - but it seems to me since those on trt are introducing an exogenous androgen this theory sort of goes out the window. Another theory is it reduces lethargy - i could only see this being the case if one was shut down with the absence of testosterone - not shut down because of taking exogenous test. Honestly on trt or on cycle including test i can only see it increasing estrogen. I mainly see it useful to men in their 40's and up who take it since natural levels have declined (those not on trt). Now again this is just my opinion - i also recall Swifto posting something a while ago about it having its place for some on cycle - again if the cycle includes test i dont get it - but he knows his stuff. Im by no means an expert but these are my opinions. Maybe Swifto will weigh in.

well...i know i tried it before (early on in trt) and didnt notice a diff as well but i'm going to try the 25/25 and see...i dont use hcg i'll definitely be able to say one way or the other for me

**zaggahamma** · 07-23-2011, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by lifter65

i read that on the muscle chat room
the creams get absorbed way better and the pills dont get used as well, im pretty sure

u mean dhea cream then ok..sorry

**zaggahamma** · 07-23-2011, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by Bigfoot66

Walmart and Walgreens have them...2 for 1...90 25mg pills per bottle

thanks bro

just ordered on amazon a bunch along with some vitamin d3 drops and melatonin and ibu so got free shipping

now i wont have to risk my life going up and down the aisles at walmart..lmao

**steroid.com 1** · 07-23-2011, 09:51 AM

Here's John Crisler's presentation on DHEA, Pregnenolone and Melatonin Replacement Therapy; guys please read his presentation:

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/Dh...cement Therapy

Agree that DHEA is more relevant for older men then younger.

Don't see E2 as a factor IF a man is on an AI protocol with TRT; it will/should keep it under control.

I heard Crisler speak on DHEA (Super Human Radio) with regard to adrenal fatigue and he speaks to it's benefits for men on TRT...very compelling.

**yannick35** · 10-29-2011, 06:32 AM

Once again thank you very much gdevine for a great link and post, i have been using DHEA for about 2 weeks now along with 7 keto, got both at vitacost, great price, the DHEA is time release 50mg and the 7keto is 50mg not time release.

I also read another one of your reply for weight loss to take around 200mg per day so its all good, i take 100mg in the morning and 100mg later in the day.

I am also on TRT androgel right now but want to switch to injectible soon.

I know this post is a bit dated around 5 months old but still very good and informative.

**steroid.com 1** · 10-29-2011, 07:58 AM

Thanks man; that's why we're all here to help.

Adding in Pregnenolone and DHEA on a TRT protocol is important as it "back fills" the path ways. Introducing Testosterone so far down stream shuts down up stream production in the cascade. What this essentially means is that there are other pathways that are dependent on these progenitor hormone's if you will.

Therefore, by back filling the pathways you are insuring that the other pathways are getting what they need to function metabolically.

Some men will complain of neg sides when they first add these to their protocol; that's generally because they were deficient in them and the body is reacting accordingly. These symptoms will subside in a short time and the benefits will be rewarded.

A successful strategy in a TRT protocol is to add:

1. hCG
2. Pregnenolone
3. DHEA

7 Keto is "thermogenic" and can aid in weight lose...love the stuff.

**BigBadWolf** · 10-29-2011, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by gdevine

Here's John Crisler's presentation on DHEA, Pregnenolone and Melatonin Replacement Therapy; guys please read his presentation:

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/Dh...cement Therapy

Agree that DHEA is more relevant for older men then younger.

Don't see E2 as a factor IF a man is on an AI protocol with TRT; it will/should keep it under control.

I heard Crisler speak on DHEA (Super Human Radio) with regard to adrenal fatigue and he speaks to it's benefits for men on TRT...very compelling.

What was the deal with the crashed van?????

**jamotech** · 10-29-2011, 03:22 PM

The more research I do about adrenal fatigue, the more I realize I probably suffer from it, very excited to start taking dhea and pregnenolone.

I say sticky this!

**yannick35** · 10-29-2011, 03:33 PM

When DHEA came out i was around 25 years old this stuff was very expensive, also banned in Canada from most website i was very surprised when my order went true from viatcost. The price was a real joke too. I am taking both 7 keto and DHEA time release, been taking it for about a week now so i guess its too soon to see a difference, also androgel for more then a week.

A lot of website canned the stuff and said it was useless, this is why i rather have real feedback from real people who tried it, good to hear that it works wonders for weight loss and TRT even better.

**steroid.com 1** · 10-30-2011, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by jamotech

The more research I do about adrenal fatigue, the more I realize I probably suffer from it, very excited to start taking dhea and pregnenolone.

I say sticky this!

Jamotech, do you know what your cortisol levels were on your last BW? If so, and they are clinically low you may be in adrenal fatigue.

Starting out Doc's like to prescribe a little hydrocortisone such as Cortef and from what I've read it makes a world of difference for a lot of men with this condition.

**jamotech** · 10-31-2011, 04:26 PM

It was not GD, another level I'd like to have checked on my next BW.

**lovbyts** · 11-01-2011, 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by gdevine

Nope and it's really good for you Bass for a lot of reasons (especailly older guys as DHEA production slows down like everything else). Some guys have stated that they even felt better once they started adding DHEA to their protocol.

Make no mistake, it is a hormone and is very anabolic at that!

Finish reading it man!

So did you just call bass OLD?

I like the information, I have been taking DHEA for a while now just for that reason although most other studies only showed it's effectiveness on natural test and not HRT.

I also just recommended it or at least getting his DHEA leves checked to the guy who is on HRT using 400mg a week and levels are still low due to elevated E2 and nto able to get them lower even with AI thinking the DHEA may be a factor.

**lovbyts** · 11-01-2011, 02:15 AM

Originally Posted by Honkeykong

What was the deal with the crashed van?????

I was just going to ask the say and the drunk cat. I like the 3 red neck dogs. LOL

**NOSUPERMODEL** · 11-01-2011, 06:00 AM

Picked up some and started using it yesterday.

**steroid.com 1** · 11-01-2011, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

So did you just call bass OLD?

I like the information, I have been taking DHEA for a while now just for that reason although most other studies only showed it's effectiveness on natural test and not HRT.

I also just recommended it or at least getting his DHEA leves checked to the guy who is on HRT using 400mg a week and levels are still low due to elevated E2 and nto able to get them lower even with AI thinking the DHEA may be a factor.

lovbyts - You need to consider the cascade; DHEA is far up stream of E2 so there could any number of variables that are causing higher E2. The levels most of us take are low and what actually makes it into the bloodstream is even lower so the chances of increased E2 from DHEA and Pregnenolone are very remote IMO.

I listened to John Crisler speak on the addition of DHEA and Preg to back fill the pathways and he prescribes it to almost 100% of his male patients.

The key to understanding the addition of these two hormones is that it back fills ALL pathways. Exogenous Test shuts down the production of these two critical hormones and they are needed for other pathways besides the production of Testosterone .

Transdermal for both is the way to go; oral provides very little and some even convert to unwanted metabolites.

**Times Roman** · 11-01-2011, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by bass

very interesting! i will finish reading the whole article later. is it expensive?

naw... i've got a hundred gram container of it sitting on my shelf. I've had it for awhile, not sure but i think I paid $30 for it.

btw... at 50mg/day, my DHEA would be a 2,000 day supply. 6 yrs for $30. Comes to $5/year or a little over 40 cents a month, or under two cents a day. Cheap