Why an injection instead of a gel?

[dfwo]

I was reading through a paper by Dr Crisler online, and he recommends the gel. But it seems like most people here are doing in the injections. Just wondering why...

[JD250]

When was the paper dated, I believe he has since updated his findings

[dfwo]

The one I'm looking at is dated 2009

[yannick35]

I took the gel for a month, then switch to injections, the gel did good but what i read from many user feedbacks is that it takes a long time to work. Injections are way quicker. I am not saying that at one point i will not switch back to gel but get is 148$ per month without insurance coverage 33$ with, injections are 33$ for 5ml of Test E they even give me the 21 gauge syring after inurance its 9$ for 5 weeks.

This alone is a very good reason to switch to injections, plus gel you need to rub everyday, injections in my case once a week.

[fit2bOld]

Never tried the gel but, have dogs and a the other half to worry about and I hate wearing a shirt unless I'm leaving the house. I think a lot of the guys worry about contact with their kids, wives, partners.

[kelkel]

You can argue both ways but it really comes down to the individual and personal preference. They both work although some seem to absorb gel better than others. I still use gel (androgel 1.62%) which is working great for me. I'm not opposed to shots I just don't feel like sticking myself just yet for 30 years when the gel is doing the job for me. If insurance didn't cover it, i'd be on shots without hesitation. If I had small children I'd opt for shots too.

[bigboy67]

I go IM injection because I only have to do it once a week, no risk with my newborn and wife getting transfer, just seems easier than on a daily basis having to put on a gel, wait for it to dry, worry about transfer, etc.

I have it down to a science now. Takes me 5 minutes from pulling out all my gear, doing the injection, and being right back to work. Easy money

[Fred40]

Everything pointed to injections for me.....No Insurance, young kids.

Not to mention it just seems A LOT easier to me. One quick shot once a week VS. a daily routine with the gels.

[bass]

i think also you get better consistency with shots! and its cheaper!

[sirupate]

If you look at the other sub-forums for this site, you will better understand why injecting is preferred by many...leaving out the very real advantages of doing so. This is primarily a bodybuilding forum as a whole. For cycles, gel would never work.

Gel works great for TRT for some guys. For others, they don't absorb the testosterone in the gel all that well. This may be why we now have the 1.62% and 2% gels. The gels are also still on patent protection and are very expensive unless you have decent prescription drug coverage. Still, even with good insurance, the gel is still costing someone plenty (normally your employer). The gels are pretty easy to apply and some guys don't want to stick themselves to inject.

Injecting gets all that testosterone into your body...well, the 70% bioavailable portion of the injection. Injectibles are darn inexpensive compared to the gels...so if you don't have good insurance, injectibles are the way to go. There is a bit of a roller-coaster effect to your testosterone levels with the injectibles. Guys solve that by injecting once or more per week, which helps levels things out.

If you have good insurance, try the gel. If the gel isn't working well, switch over to injecting.

Transferance of the gel to others is quite overblown in my opinion, but mentioned prominantly in the patient literature.

[zaggahamma]

its almost 2012 last i looked

i'd be saddened if i had to go back to smearing androgel on EVERY DAY

[BigBadWolf]

its almost 2012 last i looked

i'd be saddened if i had to go back to smearing androgel on EVERY DAY

Yea but the shots have been around alot longer than the gels.

[zaggahamma]

Yea but the shots have been around alot longer than the gels.

dont quite get your point

[Bigfoot66]

I was on gel for 1.5 years and my T levels tanked. Switched to IM and never looked back. 100 mg 2X weekly...1000 mg B12 on second weekly shot and .5 Arimidex EOD...levels are relatively constant. Just wish mass growth wouldn't have slowed down. It's an eating issue for me.

And insurance pays for everything.

[BigIce]

As in 200 mg a week? That is alot for a trt

[dfwo]

I was prescribed 150mg of Test Cyp every week

[Bigfoot66]

As in 200 mg a week? That is alot for a trt

That amount keeps me in the top 15 percent of TTand Free T

[Fred40]

As in 200 mg a week? That is alot for a trt

That amount keeps me in the top 15 percent of TTand Free T

Yep....everyone is different. I'm almost off the high end of the scale for both TT and Free T at 100mg/week.

[sirupate]

dont quite get your point

I think what he meant is that the gels and pellets were supposed to be an advance in treatment over IM injections...which is how low-T was treated early on. So you're saying here we are in 2012 and I'd be saddened to have to go back to the more advanced therapy. I think he was just suggesting that one could flip your statement around and view it as just as valid.

And let's not argue about which method of therapy is better. Everyone seems to be unique. What works well for one person doesn't always work well for another. As you may recall, I am back on the gel, but had been on injections for about 6 months. During that time injecting, my libido tanked completely. The endo didn't want to fine tune me, and so, put me back on the gel. I think the greater DHT conversion of the gel may have been important.

DHT is very powerful....more powerful than testosterone . Testosterone is converted to DHT by the liver and skin. If you bypass the skin by injecting, you can get less DHT...my very amateur synopsis.

[zaggahamma]

I think what he meant is that the gels and pellets were supposed to be an advance in treatment over IM injections...which is how low-T was treated early on. So you're saying here we are in 2012 and I'd be saddened to have to go back to the more advanced therapy. I think he was just suggesting that one could flip your statement around and view it as just as valid.

And let's not argue about which method of therapy is better. Everyone seems to be unique. What works well for one person doesn't always work well for another. As you may recall, I am back on the gel, but had been on injections for about 6 months. During that time injecting, my libido tanked completely. The endo didn't want to fine tune me, and so, put me back on the gel. I think the greater DHT conversion of the gel may have been important.

DHT is very powerful....more powerful than testosterone. Testosterone is converted to DHT by the liver and skin. If you bypass the skin by injecting, you can get less DHT...my very amateur synopsis.

i think you know i dont rule out the effectiveness of gel

i think my point was in addition to jd's first reply to the op about crisler formerly thinking gel is best and now 2012 not so much

[kelkel]

Does anyone have a more current paper by Crisler reflecting his opinions on the matter? Love to read it. Valid points above guys.

[dfwo]

this is from the 2009 paper, re: gels and creams;

The only way to go, in my professional opinion, if physician and patient agree on a transdermal (TD) delivery system. Or TRT at all. As I have gained knowledge and experience, my position is now that TD’s are vastly superior to other modalities in TRT medicine. They are easy to apply, usually well absorbed, and rapidly establish stable serum androgen levels (by the end of the third day). I recommend all practitioners first try a testosterone gel for their TRT patients. Gels are better than creams, as I want the rapid T uptake into the dermal layer, which serves as reservoir for distribution throughout the day. Men do better on lower serum T levels on TD’s than IM.

The constant variability of serum androgens provided by T gels mimic the hormones of a young man; the stable daily level provided by T injections mimic the hormones of an old man; those of implantable pellets mimic the hormones of no one. Entropic hormone levels are part and parcel of the process of youth.

Much is made of the risk posed by accidental transferal of testosterone to others, such as children or sexual partners. Simply covering with a T-shirt has been shown to block transfer of the hormone. The testosterone sinks into the skin within an hour. One may shower, or even swim, without worry, usually after four hours. I remind my patients most of us have neither the time, nor the opportunity, for romance until evening (given the usual early morning application), and a quick shower is always nice for a gentleman to “freshen up” prior to same.

Gels and creams, like all transdermal delivery systems, provide a greater boost in DHT levels, compared to injectable testosterone preparations. As DHT is responsible for all the things of manhood--literally, AllThingsMale--the transdermals are better at treating sexual dysfunction than are injectables. However, issues of hair loss (which I treat with a compounded topical DHT blocking mixture) and possible prostate morbidity (a contentiously debatable point, to be sure, but resolved in the negative to my mind) then come into play. This might be a good time to mention I vehemently oppose adding finasteride or similar medication.

To end the debate on this topic, transdermal T gels/creams are more likely to elevate estrogen than injections, as long as the shots are properly administered once per week. That is because aromatase lives in the skin, along with higher concentrations of 5-AR, which converts T to E. Even so, the benefits of TD TRT outweigh the weekly convenience of shots.

[Ryanmcd]

I have done gels and shots and like the gels better, and Crisler told me 3 weeks ago to go from the shots to the gels if the gel is working and I feel much better.

[zaggahamma]

I have done gels and shots and like the gels better, and Crisler told me 3 weeks ago to go from the shots to the gels if the gel is working and I feel much better.

very logical

[dec11]

has anyone ever used a combination of gel and injectable?

[zaggahamma]

has anyone ever used a combination of gel and injectable?

i have trying to finish off left over gel

nothing really to report about it good or bad

one thought a while back was that since cyp test levels starts to decline after day 5 i would slather up day 6 and 7 which i did...like i said...nothing notable

[sirupate]

i have trying to finish off left over gel

nothing really to report about it good or bad

one thought a while back was that since cyp test levels starts to decline after day 5 i would slather up day 6 and 7 which i did...like i said...nothing notable

I've done that too and really have nothing to note about it. My levels may have been higher than otherwise when combining in the short-term, but I didn't notice that much...at least as I can recall.

[kelkel]

i have trying to finish off left over gel

nothing really to report about it good or bad

one thought a while back was that since cyp test levels starts to decline after day 5 i would slather up day 6 and 7 which i did...like i said...nothing notable

Maybe nothing notable is a good thing? Meaning you felt normal.

[zaggahamma]

Maybe nothing notable is a good thing? Meaning you felt normal.

yeh i dont report much with slight dose variations or like this inject/gel combo...i get more notice from a good night sleep to the lack thereof

[JD250]

yeh i dont report much with slight dose variations or like this inject/gel combo...i get more notice from a good night sleep to the lack thereof

no doubt.....wish I could come up with a couple of those from time to time

[BigIce]

has anyone ever used a combination of gel and injectable?

I am using what I have left of my gel since I just started Nebido

Its early so I can´t really say, but I am feeling better. Placebo effect or not, I don´t care