Estrogenic fat deposit transitioning to Testosterone related fat deposits?

[xelnaga]

Say you have Low T and estrogenic fat deposits. Once you have started TRT would the estrogenic fat deposits begin to disappear? Assuming the person is losing fat, would any fat that is regained be deposited in more male related areas?

[GotNoBlueMilk]

If you are gaining fat it goes to where the most fat cells are. If those are in your man boobs that is where you gain the most. Killing fat cells is tough. All cells eventually die and recycle. If you want to lower fat cell count you have to maintain low bf% for a long long time. We are talking years. There are some studies that support this, despite the prominent belief that once you make a fat cell it never goes away. But since it takes years, that is pretty close to never for someone watching his man boobs slowly shrink.

The sad truth for us all is we have to lose fat and keep the fat off. So it's a neverending battle with the buldge.

[yannick35]

I kind of feel with the extra testosterone and a good eating plan losing fat will be a lot easier, most people that suffer from Low T have fat deposit around the waist.

[Fred40]

Just remember that fat always comes of at an even pace over your entire body. There is no such thing as "spot reduction". I.E. doing a bunch of sit-ups does not remove extra belly fat.

So if most of your fat is carried around your mid section then that is the last place you will see an improvement.

[--->>405<<---]

Fat sucks!!!!!!!

[yannick35]

What if the fat was deposit due to low T level, for me at least i have gained a lot in the past few years and cannot say its due to bad eating, i always eat around 2000-3000 cals a day and was between 204-225 pounds increase was in the last five years or so.

Last summer after getting as high as 231 pounds i decided to diet down, i was eating 1000 calories a day and it took me forever to get down to 212 pounds. Has soon has calories where upped again in the 2000 range the weight creeped back up to 217.

[--->>405<<---]

maybe i should move to that place where its better to be fatter.. become a sumo wrestler .. and eat chicken wings and bacon cheeseburgers and get all the ladies..

[yannick35]

maybe i should move to that place where its better to be fatter.. become a sumo wrestler .. and eat chicken wings and bacon cheeseburgers and get all the ladies..

OMG LOL that is funny, still being very fat you won't feel good at all. To be honest i am not going to diet for the rest of my life, i will still eat theses foods, my life and money do not come from the way i look or my body. Cheesecake is still my favorite dessert.

Fat boys getting Hot chick...... that really is wonderland

[bass]

Fat sucks!!!!!!!

or you can SUCK fat with lipo!

[--->>405<<---]

Yeh i heard when they stick all those rods in there it like separates the fat connective tissue that keeps it all even and so if(or when) u gain fat back it can dEposit itself all unevenly and look weird.. Maybe BS but just what i heard.. Cant remember where.. Seemd logical i suppose...

[Fred40]

What if the fat was deposit due to low T level, for me at least i have gained a lot in the past few years and cannot say its due to bad eating, i always eat around 2000-3000 cals a day and was between 204-225 pounds increase was in the last five years or so.

Last summer after getting as high as 231 pounds i decided to diet down, i was eating 1000 calories a day and it took me forever to get down to 212 pounds. Has soon has calories where upped again in the 2000 range the weight creeped back up to 217.

As you age your metabolism is going to drop. You pretty much have to reduce your total caloric intake in order to maintain your same weight. That's why most people gain weight as they age.......that and they are usually doing less on top of it. Reduced metabolism, same diet = weight gain.

Yes you can offset the metabolism decrease with increased exercise.

I assume that TRT probably has some affect on helping to raise metabolism but it's never going to be what it was when you were 17.

[fit2bOld]

I like what Bass said Suck fat. been thinking of that have always had that little belly in front and some love handles. Look good in clothes.

[Lemonada8]

There have been some studies showing that Adipose tissue has test receptors which increase fat utilization. I'll look for those studies later and post them in this post.
But as for estrogenic fat deposits vs non-estrogen fat deposits, I would assume its more of a whole body fat utilization rathe than a localized fat utilization. But beginning trt would help fat burning as a whole in the body.
And it's somewhat genetic where the fat would deposit which depends on person to person.

http://ajpcell.physiology.org/content/274/6/C1645.short
Androgen receptors in human preadipocytes and adipocytes: regional specificities and regulation by sex steroids

Abstract

Various clinical and epidemiological evidence strongly suggests a major role for sex steroid hormones in the determination of anatomical specificities of fat distribution in human. To date, no studies have examined the possible presence of androgen receptors (AR) in human adipocytes and preadipocytes. We have studied AR in preadipocytes from various anatomical locations (intra-abdominal and subcutaneous) in middle-aged men and women during the proliferation and differentiation processes (adipogenesis). Androgen binding sites quantified by [3H]R-1881-specific binding in whole cell extracts were twofold higher in intra-abdominal than in subcutaneous preadipocytes but identical for the same fat depots in men and women. Western blot analysis revealed1) the presence of AR in the nuclear and cytosolic fractions of human preadipocytes,2) a decrease of AR expression during adipogenesis, and 3) an upregulation of AR by androgens in vitro. RT-PCR experiments showed the presence of AR mRNA in human preadipocytes and adipocytes and also the regional specificity of AR distribution. However, AR mRNA expression was found to increase during adipogenesis. The same results were observed in rat preadipocytes. In conclusion, this study clearly demonstrates the presence of AR in human preadipocytes and adipocytes and suggests that androgens may contribute, through regulation of their own receptors, to the control of adipose tissue development.

http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/con...ppl_1/21.short
Hormonal control of regional fat distribution

Abstract

Hormones exert powerful influences on body fat distribution in humans. Studies under fully controlled conditions in vitro have indicated that cortisol and insulin facilitate lipid accumulation by expressing lipoprotein lipase (LPL). Growth hormone (GH) abolishes this and turns metabolism towards lipid mobilization. Testosterone and GH inhibit LPL and stimulate lipolysis markedly. Cortisol effects are mediated via a glucocorticoid receptor, and testosterone effects via an androgen receptor, the density of which appears to be higher in visceral than subcutaneous adipose tissue. The receptor-mediated effects are probably expressed via transcription of appropriate genes. The female sex steroids also regulate adipose tissue metabolism, but apparently not directly in the absence of specific cellular receptors. Oestrogens seem to exert net effects similar to those of testosterone. These results of cellular studies agree well with invivo studies of triglyceride uptake and turnover in different adipose tissue regions. Furthermore, clinical entities with characteristic disturbances in hormone levels show the expected redistribution patterns.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...6007609090400F
Up-regulation of androgen receptor binding in male rat fat pad adipose precursor cells exposed to testosterone: Study in a whole cell assay system

Abstract
Binding of androgens to adipocytes has previously been evaluated using cytosol fractions without taking into account nuclear binding, although the latter is suggested to be close to the physiological site of action. In the present study, performed in differentiated fat pad adipose precursor cells, we describe a simple, reliable and reproducible androgen binding assay in a system with intact cells. Triatiated and unlabeled methyltrienolone (R1881) were used to define specific and unspecific androgen binding. Triamcinolone acetonide was added to prevent the binding of R1881 to other types of receptors. Differentiated adipose precursor cells contain a homogeneous class of high affinity androgen binding sites, and binding is saturable and reversible. Binding apparently occurs at one site, with a Kd in the range of physiological androgen concentration (about 4 nM). Competition studies indicate that the receptor is specific for R1881, testosterone and dihydrotestosterone, which have approximately the same affinity, while progesterone, estradiol and dexametasone show much lower affinity. Androgen binding was markedly enhanced after cellular exposure to R1881 and testosterone but not dihydrotestosterone, and this increase was dependent on protein synthesis, suggesting the formation of new receptors by these androgens.

In conclusion, fully differentiated adipocytes contain a specific, high affinity receptor, the density of which is dependent on androgens.

The above studies suggest that testosterone increases the androgen receptor on adipose tissue, which in-turn increases lypolysis in those adipose cells. Also, estrogen still regulates adipose tissue but its not-dependent on receptors, which suggest that in the absence of a quantity of AR on the adipose tissue it will increase adipogensis (formation of adipose tissues) although, as shown in the 2nd study posted, that "Oestrogens seem to exert net effects similar to those of testosterone" that may be a sexual difference b/c females have a higher amount of estrogen and estrogen is 'carcinogenic' in males but not nearly as much in females. Estrogen does have some genome restructuring effects, which in women is a good thing due to lower levels of testosterone . This remodeling doesnt happen nearly as much in males which i suspect is partly the reason for estrogen being carcinogenic in males.
Sexual dimorphism with hormonal controls is pretty interesting.

[yannick35]

Lemonada8 thank you very much

[flatscat]

Say you have Low T and estrogenic fat deposits. Once you have started TRT would the estrogenic fat deposits begin to disappear? Assuming the person is losing fat, would any fat that is regained be deposited in more male related areas?

Yes - in my case anyways, kinda, maybe. I lost about 50 lbs last year. Most of it around the belly.love handles and chest area. I have since gained about 15 back (i know - ugh - coming off now though) and it did not return on my sides/waist/chest - still in my 32's/34's.

I have thought about this question before too and am glad you asked it. Pretty sure it is not so much my increase in test as it is my reduction of E2 - or maybe a little of both.

I know it is not a study - but a real life opinion based on experience - hope it helps.

Flats

[kelkel]

Great post Lemon!

[zaggahamma]

If you are gaining fat it goes to where the most fat cells are. If those are in your man boobs that is where you gain the most. Killing fat cells is tough. All cells eventually die and recycle. If you want to lower fat cell count you have to maintain low bf% for a long long time. We are talking years. There are some studies that support this, despite the prominent belief that once you make a fat cell it never goes away. But since it takes years, that is pretty close to never for someone watching his man boobs slowly shrink.

The sad truth for us all is we have to lose fat and keep the fat off. So it's a neverending battle with the buldge.

well said