Baffled and confused over Test re: Bulk or less BF

[SlimmerMe]

Here is my confusion assuming the member eats right and trains correctly and is age appropriate:

If a member comes along desiring to shed BF then test is recommended
on the other hand
if a member comes along desiring to bulk then test is suggested to this member as well.

So if one member wants to end up looking smaller yet another wants to end up looking bigger then why are both recommended test?

Knowing Test builds muscle which helps shed BF yet can also blow up someone too, does the significant difference come down to macros? and amount of test? cycle versus HRT doses?
because it seems confusing to me that both ends of the spectrum are both recommended test.

Does this make sense? I hope someone can help clarify this contradictory confusion....THANKS~

SM

[flatscat]

Can I assume the generic member you are speaking of is or has been diagnosed with low t?

[kelkel]

I look at it this way. The T is used to "normalize" our systems from whatever contributed to our low T, be it normal aging or system failure due to trauma or even tumors. Exercise and diet then take you in the direction you then want to go (gain/lose weight) etc. Amount makes a difference but the major contributing factor is the individuals own system and how it processes the exogenous T. As evidenced by the wide range of amounts taken as discussed by the various members on this forum. It's the same as exercise, it can be used to build you up or to slim you down in conjunction with proper eating habits.

My .02

[bass]

I look at it this way. The T is used to "normalize" or systems from whatever contributed to our low T, be it normal aging or system failure due to trauma or even tumors. Exercise and diet then take you in the direction you then want to go (gain/lose weight) etc. Amount makes a difference but the major contributing factor is the individuals own system and how it processes the exogenous T. As evidenced by the wide range of amounts taken as discussed by the various members on this forum. It's the same as exercise, it can be used to build you up or to slim you down in conjunction with proper eating habits.

My .02

thats the key word! and i agree with the rest.

[Fred40]

Also.....Test does help with both but in my experience fat people are not opposed to gaining muscle AND losing fat.

In my case I have certainly lost some fat since starting TRT.....but I have lost no weight. In fact I'm up about 5lbs at this point.

Fine by me. I'm stronger and there has definitely been a shift on where that weight is being carried and how I look and feel.

[APIs]

I look at it this way. The T is used to "normalize" or systems from whatever contributed to our low T, be it normal aging or system failure due to trauma or even tumors. Exercise and diet then take you in the direction you then want to go (gain/lose weight) etc. Amount makes a difference but the major contributing factor is the individuals own system and how it processes the exogenous T. As evidenced by the wide range of amounts taken as discussed by the various members on this forum. It's the same as exercise, it can be used to build you up or to slim you down in conjunction with proper eating habits.

My .02

x2. Along with the Test, it then comes down to training & diet. Train with heavy weights, you bulk up as is my case. Reduced weights with higher reps combined with increase cardio will yield a lower BF composition. All depends what you are trying to accomplish...

[flatscat]

I don't recall ever seeing someone recommending test to "shred" bf.

Some with high bf and low t are directed to trt though. High E2 is associated more with high BF. Remember, that same E2 is coming from something - right? It is coming from the t most likely. And the higher one's bf goes, the more t the E2 takes generally. Once one with high BF AND E2 gets the E2 under control with or without added t, they can see their body change dramatically - hence the shred. Once that stage is completed and t numbers are higher end, I feel it does help change the way the body metabolizes calories - and hopefully the member has started cardio and strength training along with diet changes. Once the body has started the composition change to more lean mass one can choose to bulk or shred based on diet. I kinda laugh at the term bulk - (although I have never done it) because it implies that one can eat all of anything he chooses as long as the calories are high enough. Then they end up with mass muscle gains as well as tons of fat - which is why they need to cut. More guys are using the term "clean bulk" now which makes more sense and is based on macros.

Now, some guys need to get their t levels up - just to be able to get off the couch and get a little motivation to make the other things happen. And we see this a lot here in this section. And - it makes sense sometimes.

I know I have kept it pretty simple - but does that help at all?

Bottom line is you are correct, without adequate t levels one can not add muscle mass, AND due to aromatization most with high bf have increased E2 levels with lowered testosterone levels and have a hard time loosing weight.

[JohnnyVegas]

I do see a lot of guys that come here and say they want to lose fat. They usually mention a specific drug (Winstol mostly) that they heard make the fat magically disappear. They are usually shut down and given education that they don't want to hear. They find one idiot with a post count of 12 that says, "yeah bro, Winney is the sh*t for burning fat." The thread then turns into a one-on-one conversation between the two newbies while all voices of reason are ignored.

Regarding knowledgable members actually recommending AAS for fat loss...I don't see it often. Usually people are told to lose the fat first before taking any drugs.

My personal experience is that AAS will both build muscle and help with losing fat. HOWEVER, my experience was transitioning from making almost no natural test to having good levels on TRT. I assume Test helps guys on cycle lost BF, but I know it is still dependent on diet. Like everyone else, I wish I could jab myself, sit on the couch and get ripped. I am working my butt off to lose more BF. Diet is good and I keep upping my cardio. It is slowly coming off. Slowly. Damn it.

[zaggahamma]

I don't recall ever seeing someone recommending test to "shred" bf.

Some with high bf and low t are directed to trt though. High E2 is associated more with high BF. Remember, that same E2 is coming from something - right? It is coming from the t most likely. And the higher one's bf goes, the more t the E2 takes generally. Once one with high BF AND E2 gets the E2 under control with or without added t, they can see their body change dramatically - hence the shred. Once that stage is completed and t numbers are higher end, I feel it does help change the way the body metabolizes calories - and hopefully the member has started cardio and strength training along with diet changes. Once the body has started the composition change to more lean mass one can choose to bulk or shred based on diet. I kinda laugh at the term bulk - (although I have never done it) because it implies that one can eat all of anything he chooses as long as the calories are high enough. Then they end up with mass muscle gains as well as tons of fat - which is why they need to cut. More guys are using the term "clean bulk" now which makes more sense and is based on macros.

Now, some guys need to get their t levels up - just to be able to get off the couch and get a little motivation to make the other things happen. And we see this a lot here in this section. And - it makes sense sometimes.

I know I have kept it pretty simple - but does that help at all?

Bottom line is you are correct, without adequate t levels one can not add muscle mass, AND due to aromatization most with high bf have increased E2 levels with lowered testosterone levels and have a hard time loosing weight.

this^^

T can be helpful in BOTH...no more confusion

[SlimmerMe]

THANKS guys for all of the above input.

From what all I surmise: Test is used to help normalize test levels and if diet and training are spot on, then whichever way the member wants to go as in either making gains or losing BF then the Test will help achieve his goal.

Hope this is correct.
Appreciate your responses.

[zaggahamma]

THANKS guys for all of the above input.

From what all I surmise: Test is used to help optimize test levels and if diet and training are spot on, then whichever way the member wants to go as in either making gains(adding lbm) or losing BF then the Test will help achieve his goal.

Hope this is correct.
Appreciate your responses.

perfect

[fit2bOld]

I look at it this way. The T is used to "normalize" or systems from whatever contributed to our low T, be it normal aging or system failure due to trauma or even tumors. Exercise and diet then take you in the direction you then want to go (gain/lose weight) etc. Amount makes a difference but the major contributing factor is the individuals own system and how it processes the exogenous T. As evidenced by the wide range of amounts taken as discussed by the various members on this forum. It's the same as exercise, it can be used to build you up or to slim you down in conjunction with proper eating habits.

My .02

Great answer Kel, Comes down to what your willing to put forward in effort to achieve your goals through diet and exercise once you have optimized your hormones

[yannick35]

I do see a lot of guys that come here and say they want to lose fat. They usually mention a specific drug (Winstol mostly) that they heard make the fat magically disappear. They are usually shut down and given education that they don't want to hear. They find one idiot with a post count of 12 that says, "yeah bro, Winney is the sh*t for burning fat." The thread then turns into a one-on-one conversation between the two newbies while all voices of reason are ignored.

Regarding knowledgable members actually recommending AAS for fat loss...I don't see it often. Usually people are told to lose the fat first before taking any drugs.

My personal experience is that AAS will both build muscle and help with losing fat. HOWEVER, my experience was transitioning from making almost no natural test to having good levels on TRT. I assume Test helps guys on cycle lost BF, but I know it is still dependent on diet. Like everyone else, I wish I could jab myself, sit on the couch and get ripped. I am working my butt off to lose more BF. Diet is good and I keep upping my cardio. It is slowly coming off. Slowly. Damn it.

Winstrol V is one of the worst steroid to use, my medical doctor is totally against it, he says that it does damage to the heart and more. I have read many studies about this too. You are 100% right about diet.

[Chemical engineer]

You can cut on most if not all AAS. It comes down to diet and cardio.[Beat the dead horse one more time] More muscle=higher metabolism.