Are these testosterone levels low for my age? (33 yo male)

[someguy01]

I'm a 33 year old male in decent health -- I work out some, but not as often as I should. I'm not overweight. For the last few years I've had difficulty concentrating, and poor memory, motivation and energy. I'm also more irritable and less confident than I used to be. I've also started to have erectile dysfunction symptoms (difficult and takes longer to get it up, not as hard as it used to be once up.) I was diagnosed with Attention Deficit Disorder a few months ago due to the mental symptoms. I've started taking prescription amphetamine-based medications for the ADD. They're helping with the mental effects, but I still dno't feel back to normal. They're making the erectile issues worse, which is a known side-effect of the amphetamines. After doing some reading about low testosterone I wondered if it might account for all of my symptoms and I might not have ADD after all.

At my recent physical I asked my doc to test my testosterone levels along with anything else that might cause poor concentration and memory or erectile dysfunction. I just got my results back:
--------
TOTAL TESTOSTERONE : 502 NG/DL [reference 250-1100]
FREE TESTOSTERONE: 69.4 PG/ML [reference 35.0-155.0]
SHBG: 35 NMOL/L [reference 10-50]

TOTAL TESTOSTERONE WAS MEASURED BY LCMSMS. THE LCMSMS METHOD CORRELATES WELL WITH OUR EXTRACTION/RIA METHOD.
-------

My vitamin D was low and he recommended a supplement of 4000 IU per day of vitamin D3. Test results were 21 NG/ML total vitamin D.

Also tested (and normal, according to my doctor) were: Complete blood count, comprehensive metabolic panel, lipid group (cholesterol), PSA, thyroid.

Are these testosterone levels low for a healthy 33 year old male? My doctor assures me that they're fine. According to the "normal testosterone by age range" charts I've found online my total test is slightly low, my shbg is normal, and my free test is around what would be expected in a 70-year-old man!

I'd really appreciate any advice about whether these levels could be causing my problems and if so what might be causing my levels to be off.

[JohnnyVegas]

They don't seem low to me really. You are pretty much right in the middle of the preferred range. What does your doctor say? Others with more experience can give more complete info.

It seems like your symptoms could be from your other meds.

I know a lot of guys WANT to have low Test, but those generic symptoms don't make it so. Obviously I am a sceptic, others will say that everyone should be on TRT that doesn't have optimum/high levels.

[bass]

i agree with JV, regarding your levels. as for your symptom, the ADD meds can make you a zombie, I've seen it in kids and its a shit medication to be honest. a good workout/exercise and a good diet can help you boost your natural levels, not sure if that will fix how you feel, but do all you can naturally, if not then consider TRT. TRT is for life.

[someguy01]

Thanks, guys.

To be clear, the symptoms were around before I started taking the ADD prescription. The ADD stuff seem to help with the mental symptoms and hurt the erectile symptoms. The doctor says that these testosterone levels are normal, but charts I'm finding online show that I have the total and free testosterone levels of a 65+ year old! example: (URL removed. It says I can't post links because I have less than 25 posts.)

[ecdysone]

Your testosterone levels are within a standard deviation of the norm, albeit on the lower end. So it's not likely you will find a Dr. who will treat you with TRT.

I always point out there are three endocrine systems in the body, any one of which could cause your symptoms. You've being tested for two - maybe think about adrenal issues.

This may be a shot in the dark, but getting some adrenal function tests:, cortisol, ACTH, etc would at least eliminate that possibility.

[JohnnyVegas]

I am not sure what you are looking at, but you don't have the Test levels of a 65+ year old.

Your symptoms are non-specific and can be caused by a hundred things. That doesn't mean you don't have low-T symptoms; it just means that, combined with your OK scores, they don't seem to be definitively low-T related.

I can tell you are working really hard to have low-T, but keep my mind open to other things. Work with a doctor to figure out what is going on.

[JohnnyVegas]

Your testosterone levels are within a standard deviation of the norm, albeit on the lower end.

EDIT: nevermind.

[ecdysone]

Not expressing myself good, with a norm of around mid-600's and an SD of about 200, trying to say the OP's within a SD but on the lower-end of the curve.

[bass]

Thanks, guys.

To be clear, the symptoms were around before I started taking the ADD prescription. The ADD stuff seem to help with the mental symptoms and hurt the erectile symptoms. The doctor says that these testosterone levels are normal, but charts I'm finding online show that I have the total and free testosterone levels of a 65+ year old! example: (URL removed. It says I can't post links because I have less than 25 posts.)

you probably found that info from an online clinic or someone who is selling testosterone boosters! as JV said you're in the middle range so you are fine there.

[JohnnyVegas]

Not expressing myself good, with a norm of around mid-600's and an SD of about 200, trying to say the OP's within a SD but on the lower-end of the curve.

I know. I don't know if you read my original post, but I deleted it right away because I realized I am letting my day interfere with my comments. That doesn't usually happen. I need to chill.

OP, just to be clear - you may very well have low-T issues. I was only saying to keep your mind open to other things so you can get it solved and feel better. Dudes feeling better is all I care about, not trying to disprove their Test levels vs. symptoms.

Sorry.

[bass]

to be honest if i had his levels i would have not gone on TRT, you can still work around them unless his symptoms are related to testosterone !

[Brohim]

I am 30 and my level's checked at lower than his. But mine might be diet related. Anyway, I have no problems w/ erectile issues or concentration like the OP states. My advice work on diet and workout regularly and get plenty of sleep and try to reduce stress as much as you can.

Get some D3 pills and take the doctor's recommened dosage. Or you can also buy a test booster called dpol. I am taking that right now it has 4000iu of D3 and D-Aspartic Acid that can boost testosterone . I have only been on a few day's but notice a difference.

[Brohim]

And I'm not sure I believe any of those chart's of test by age. I don't think a 75 yo will have a 500 test score. And I also don't think most 18 yo have a 1,000 score. I think it is a lower mean score. I think most ppl fall between 400-700 naturally.

[someguy01]

Thanks for the info, everyone. I want to throw out one more thing:

My free testosterone level listed above is 69.4 PG/ML. PG/ML seems not to be the standard unit used on this forum for free test. When converted to the units normally seen on this forum (NG/DL) that makes my free testosterone level 6.94 NG/DL. Are all of you saying that 6.94 NG/DL is a normal free testosterone level for a healthy 33 year old? I'm not trying to argue here, just trying to make sure I've thoroughly covered all of the bases before I move on and look at other possible causes. Thanks again for your help.

[Brohim]

someguy read all those stickies that are on the main forum page. You can get a lot of info.

Reference Intervals for Free Testosterone from LabCorp

* 20-29 years 9.3-26.5 picogram/mL
* 30-39 years 8.7-25.1 picogram/mL
* 40-49 years 6.8-21.5 picogram/mL
* 50-59 years 7.2-24.0 picogram/mL
* 60+ years 6.6-18.1 picogram/mL

[someguy01]

My lab report says that my Free Testosterone is 69.4 PG/ML, which would put me way outside the top of those ranges. It seems like the sticky Brohim pasted and my lab report must be using different scales, even though they both say they're measured in PG/ML. Any idea what the discrepancy might be?

[Brohim]

It all about the reference ranges. (scale) The Reference I posted are for Labcorp which are different.

[bass]

My lab report says that my Free Testosterone is 69.4 PG/ML, which would put me way outside the top of those ranges. It seems like the sticky Brohim pasted and my lab report must be using different scales, even though they both say they're measured in PG/ML. Any idea what the discrepancy might be?

it doesn't mater what scale they are using, just look at number and see where it fall on the scale. basically you are slightly below 1/2 normal range.

[someguy01]

someguy read all those stickies that are on the main forum page. You can get a lot of info.

Reference Intervals for Free Testosterone from LabCorp

* 20-29 years 9.3-26.5 picogram/mL
* 30-39 years 8.7-25.1 picogram/mL
* 40-49 years 6.8-21.5 picogram/mL
* 50-59 years 7.2-24.0 picogram/mL
* 60+ years 6.6-18.1 picogram/mL

My report says "69.4 PG/ML". I'm looking at it right now and I've triple-checked it. If it's a misplaced decimal and should be 6.94 as Brohim suggests then that would mean that at 6.94 PG/ML I'm well below where I should be according to the chart from the sticky.

[Vettester]

Your free test % is just below 1.4%. Your free & bio available test is what matters, forget the total serum score. A guy with a 300 total serum score would be better off than you if he had a 3% free test score (Think about it). Getting it between 2% & 3% would (IMO) be ideal, and it would probably make a noticeable difference in your lifestyle. Your SHBG is the variable here that is tying up your free test. Lower your SHBG into the mid 20's, and your free test will go up.

[Brohim]

My report says "69.4 PG/ML". I'm looking at it right now and I've triple-checked it. If it's a misplaced decimal and should be 6.94 as Brohim suggests then that would mean that at 6.94 PG/ML I'm well below where I should be according to the chart from the sticky.

I made a foo foo. They are different scales than Labcorp. (the ones I posted) So no idea what the age range is on that scale.

[someguy01]

Your free test % is just below 1.4%. Your free & bio available test is what matters, forget the total serum score. A guy with a 300 total serum score would be better off than you if he had a 3% free test score (Think about it). Getting it between 2% & 3% would (IMO) be ideal, and it would probably make a noticeable difference in your lifestyle. Your SHBG is the variable here that is tying up your free test. Lower your SHBG into the mid 20's, and your free test will go up.

Thanks, vetteman. I understand what you're saying about free test being more important than total. The funny thing is that my SHBG score was the only result that seems to be right on normal, even on the age-adjusted charts. In light of this, is the right thing still to try to reduce SHBG to hopefully increase free test? If so, how to I go about reducing SHBG? Is it something I can do on my own, or do I need to work with a doctor?

[Vettester]

Thanks, vetteman. I understand what you're saying about free test being more important than total. The funny thing is that my SHBG score was the only result that seems to be right on normal, even on the age-adjusted charts. In light of this, is the right thing still to try to reduce SHBG to hopefully increase free test? If so, how to I go about reducing SHBG? Is it something I can do on my own, or do I need to work with a doctor?

One effective way to reduce it is with the vitamin D supplementation that you are just starting. Another natural way is with a little Stinging Nettle Root, but as others will point out, that can also effect the conversion process to DHT, so there's a little give and take if using it. A couple things to think about that help keep your SHBG from increasing ... Cut out any alcohol, and keep your estrogen in check, which leads me to ...

Since you're going through a discovery process with your doctor anyways, I would talk to him, and do some research on:
* Estradiol (E2) - Get a sensitive lab to see if your estrogen is high. This could also be a factor with your ED.
* Pregnenolone - You are claiming to have memory issues. The cognitive benefits of this mother hormone are remarkable!
* DHEA & B12 - Energy and additional enhanced brain function.
* Thyroid Tests (TSH, T3 & T4 Free)
* Prolactin

In addition to what you provided us, do you have any other labs? CBC, Lipids, etc.? Also, please post up your other stats (height, weight, BF% if you know).

[Vettester]

I see that you did run some other labs ... Is there anything out of range? If it's not too much hassle, feel free to post the numbers.

[kelkel]

One effective way to reduce it is with the vitamin D supplementation that you are just starting. Another natural way is with a little Stinging Nettle Root, but as others will point out, that can also effect the conversion process to DHT, so there's a little give and take if using it. A couple things to think about that help keep your SHBG from increasing ... Cut out any alcohol, and keep your estrogen in check, which leads me to ...

Since you're going through a discovery process with your doctor anyways, I would talk to him, and do some research on:
* Estradiol (E2) - Get a sensitive lab to see if your estrogen is high. This could also be a factor with your ED.
* Pregnenolone - You are claiming to have memory issues. The cognitive benefits of this mother hormone are remarkable!
* DHEA & B12 - Energy and additional enhanced brain function.
* Thyroid Tests (TSH, T3 & T4 Free)
* Prolactin

In addition to what you provided us, do you have any other labs? CBC, Lipids, etc.? Also, please post up your other stats (height, weight, BF% if you know).

Vette nailed it.

[someguy01]

I see that you did run some other labs ... Is there anything out of range? If it's not too much hassle, feel free to post the numbers.

Sure thing. I'm a 33 year old male, 6'0" tall, 188 pounds. I don't know my BF% but I'd say that I look perfectly average with a shirt on, slightly flabby around the middle (but no belly to speak of) with shirt off. No noticeable extra fat anywhere other than a little flab around my stomach and love handle area. Everywhere else just looks average - not fat, not skinny.

Results of the other labs are below. I've listed results and reference ranges, but left out units to save some typing. I can provide any individual units if needed. Everything except vitamin D was within range. The doc said everything looks fine aside from low vitamin D. He recommended 4000 IU per day vitamin D supplementation, but said that the low vitamin D isn't the cause of any of my symptoms.

--------
COMPLETE BLOOD COUNT:
WBC 4.6 [4.3-11.0]
RBC 4.72 [4.53-5.73]
HEMOGLOBIN 14.5 [13.6-17.4]
HEMATOCRIT 44.1 [40.7-50.8]
MCV 93.4 [81.6-96.8]
MCH 30.7 [27.3-33.1]
MCHC 32.9 [32.0-35.9]
RDW-CV 13.2 [12.0-14.2]
RDW-SD 45.4 [37.7-47.6]
PLATELET COUNT 223 [156-365]
MEAN PLT VOLUME 10.4 [9.4-12.8]
NEUTROPHIL % 48.8
LYMPHOCYTE % 42.7
MONOCYTE % 7.4
EOSINOPHIL % 0.9
BASOPHIL % 0.2
NEUTROPHIL ABS 2.23 [1.80-7.80]
LYMPHOCYTE ABS 1.95 [1.00-4.00]
MONOCYTE ABS 0.34 [0.20-0.90]
EOSINOPHIL ABS 0.04 [0.00-0.45]
BASOPHIL ABS 0.01 [0.00-0.20]

COMPREHENSIVE METABOLIC PANEL:
GLUCOSE 88 [70-100]
BUN 13 [5-21]
CREATININE 1.05 [0.50-1.30]
SODIUM 140 [135-145]
POTASSIUM 4.0 [3.5-5.5]
CHLORIDE 102 [96-108]
BICARBONATE 28 [18-30]
ANION GAP 10 [5-16]
CALCIUM 9.3 [8.5-10.5]
PROTEIN TOTAL 7.7 [6.7-8.4]
ABLUMIN 4.8 [4.2-5.2]
BILIRUBIN TOT 1.1 [0.1-1.4]
ALK PHOS 108 [38-114]

COMPREHENSIVE METABOLIC PANEL
AST (SGOT) 25 U/L [0-50]
ALT (SGPT) 27 U/L [0-65]

LIPID GROUP:
CHOLESTEROL 154 MG/DL [100-200]
TRIGLYCERIDE 45 MG/DL [30-150]
HDL CHOLESTEROL 51 MG/DL [40-125]
LDL CHOLESTEROL 94 MG/DL [0-130]
CHOL/HDL RATIO 3.02 RATIO [0.00 - 4.97]

GFR AFRICN AMER >60 ML/MIN [>60]
GFR NON AFRICN AMER >60 ML/MIN [>60]

TSH 2.363 uIU/ML [0.300-5.000]
FREE T3 3.2 PG/ML [2.4-4.5]
FREE T4 1.32 NG/DL [0.80-1.80]

PSA EQUIMOLAR 0.58 NG/ML [0.00-2.50]

VITAMIN D TOTAL 21 NG/ML [30-100]*
VITAMIN D3 21 NG/ML
VITAMIN D2 <4 NG/ML
*TOTAL VITAMIN D LEVELS <20 NG/ML INDICATIVE OF VITAMIN D DEFICIENCY, WHILE LEVELS BETWEEN 20 NG/ML AND 30 NG/ML SUGGEST INSUFFICIENCY. OPTIMAL LEVELS ARE >=30 NG/ML.

TOT TESTOST 502 [250-1100]
SEX HORMONE BG 35 [10-50]
FREE TESTOST 69.4 [35.0-155.0]
-------

[bladehines]

i was tested at 26yrs old, my total was 400ng/dl and free was around 20pg/ml i got put on 200mg test split between 2 shots a week, test sits at 900-1000ng/dl now...

[bass]

Sure thing. I'm a 33 year old male, 6'0" tall, 188 pounds. I don't know my BF% but I'd say that I look perfectly average with a shirt on, slightly flabby around the middle (but no belly to speak of) with shirt off. No noticeable extra fat anywhere other than a little flab around my stomach and love handle area. Everywhere else just looks average - not fat, not skinny.

Results of the other labs are below. I've listed results and reference ranges, but left out units to save some typing. I can provide any individual units if needed. Everything except vitamin D was within range. The doc said everything looks fine aside from low vitamin D. He recommended 4000 IU per day vitamin D supplementation, but said that the low vitamin D isn't the cause of any of my symptoms.

--------
COMPLETE BLOOD COUNT:
WBC 4.6 [4.3-11.0]
RBC 4.72 [4.53-5.73]
HEMOGLOBIN 14.5 [13.6-17.4]
HEMATOCRIT 44.1 [40.7-50.8]
MCV 93.4 [81.6-96.8]
MCH 30.7 [27.3-33.1]
MCHC 32.9 [32.0-35.9]
RDW-CV 13.2 [12.0-14.2]
RDW-SD 45.4 [37.7-47.6]
PLATELET COUNT 223 [156-365]
MEAN PLT VOLUME 10.4 [9.4-12.8]
NEUTROPHIL % 48.8
LYMPHOCYTE % 42.7
MONOCYTE % 7.4
EOSINOPHIL % 0.9
BASOPHIL % 0.2
NEUTROPHIL ABS 2.23 [1.80-7.80]
LYMPHOCYTE ABS 1.95 [1.00-4.00]
MONOCYTE ABS 0.34 [0.20-0.90]
EOSINOPHIL ABS 0.04 [0.00-0.45]
BASOPHIL ABS 0.01 [0.00-0.20]

COMPREHENSIVE METABOLIC PANEL:
GLUCOSE 88 [70-100]
BUN 13 [5-21]
CREATININE 1.05 [0.50-1.30]
SODIUM 140 [135-145]
POTASSIUM 4.0 [3.5-5.5]
CHLORIDE 102 [96-108]
BICARBONATE 28 [18-30]
ANION GAP 10 [5-16]
CALCIUM 9.3 [8.5-10.5]
PROTEIN TOTAL 7.7 [6.7-8.4]
ABLUMIN 4.8 [4.2-5.2]
BILIRUBIN TOT 1.1 [0.1-1.4]
ALK PHOS 108 [38-114]

COMPREHENSIVE METABOLIC PANEL
AST (SGOT) 25 U/L [0-50]
ALT (SGPT) 27 U/L [0-65]

LIPID GROUP:
CHOLESTEROL 154 MG/DL [100-200]
TRIGLYCERIDE 45 MG/DL [30-150]
HDL CHOLESTEROL 51 MG/DL [40-125]
LDL CHOLESTEROL 94 MG/DL [0-130]
CHOL/HDL RATIO 3.02 RATIO [0.00 - 4.97]

GFR AFRICN AMER >60 ML/MIN [>60]
GFR NON AFRICN AMER >60 ML/MIN [>60]

TSH 2.363 uIU/ML [0.300-5.000]
FREE T3 3.2 PG/ML [2.4-4.5]
FREE T4 1.32 NG/DL [0.80-1.80]

PSA EQUIMOLAR 0.58 NG/ML [0.00-2.50]

VITAMIN D TOTAL 21 NG/ML [30-100]*
VITAMIN D3 21 NG/ML
VITAMIN D2 <4 NG/ML
*TOTAL VITAMIN D LEVELS <20 NG/ML INDICATIVE OF VITAMIN D DEFICIENCY, WHILE LEVELS BETWEEN 20 NG/ML AND 30 NG/ML SUGGEST INSUFFICIENCY. OPTIMAL LEVELS ARE >=30 NG/ML.

TOT TESTOST 502 [250-1100]
SEX HORMONE BG 35 [10-50]
FREE TESTOST 69.4 [35.0-155.0]
-------

based on this blood work you pretty darn healthy with the exception of vitamin D. your cholesterol is amazingly good! definitely check the other hormones as Vette suggested to have a complete picture of what’s going on.

[someguy01]

I'll definitely get further testing done once I find a doctor who's willing to look deeper than the basic testosterone test.

I'm still a little confused on whether low test could be causing some of my symptoms (foggy headed, poor memory and concentration, irritability, ED) based on my lab results. Posters in this thread have said that my test levels are right near the middle of the range and thus are fine. The sticky thread that someone linked to says that men over 40 should aim for a level in the upper 1/3 for 20-29 year old men.

I did the calculations and both my total test and free test are in the LOWER 1/3 of the reference ranges provided with the results. So, I'm not at the midpoint, and I'm not in the upper 1/3 for ALL ages, much less the upper 1/3 for 20-29 year olds. Both my free test and total test are right at about the 30% mark based on the lab reference ranges (where 0% would be the bottom of the range and 100% would be the top.

[someguy01]

bump.

Vetteman: I posted the complete lab results you asked for above. Any thoughts?

Everyone: Any thoughts on both my total and free testosterone levels being in the bottom 1/3 of the "all ages" reference range when I'm 33 years old? Could these levels be causing low test symptoms or should I forget about testosterone and start looking at other possible causes?

Thanks!

[txnhb]

Your testosterone levels are within a standard deviation of the norm, albeit on the lower end. So it's not likely you will find a Dr. who will treat you with TRT.

I always point out there are three endocrine systems in the body, any one of which could cause your symptoms. You've being tested for two - maybe think about adrenal issues.

This may be a shot in the dark, but getting some adrenal function tests:, cortisol, ACTH, etc would at least eliminate that possibility.

can you guys explain what you mean by there are 3 endocrine systems? the way i learned it in a&p was one endocrine system and various glands that it is comprised of. what do u guys mean when by this? i've read other people type this also and have no idea what they are getting at.

[Vettester]

bump.

Vetteman: I posted the complete lab results you asked for above. Any thoughts?

Everyone: Any thoughts on both my total and free testosterone levels being in the bottom 1/3 of the "all ages" reference range when I'm 33 years old? Could these levels be causing low test symptoms or should I forget about testosterone and start looking at other possible causes?

Thanks!

As Bass stated, your labs look good. I understand what you are saying about the low "T" symptoms, as testosterone is one the first things we consider to be the problem. Not saying that this couldn't be optimized by going up a bit, but I still think you need to look upstream as mentioned in my other post, along with E2, B12, etc. Also, sleep apnea can do a lot of negative things to one's well being. Don't know how your sleeping patterns are, but that's one additional thought to factor in. Speaking of ... It's been a crazy week and I'm about to conk out ... I'll check back in tomorrow.

Vette