Cycling hrt to keep reproductive system in check!?!?!?!

**bladehines** · 12-08-2011, 12:54 PM

Ok quick background 29yrs old, been on "HRT" since 2009. I am having to cycle on and off to keep my reproductive system going, so i can have kids later in life.

My question is what would be the PERFECT way for me to run my "HRT" cycle to keep my reproductive system going good, and for me to be off cycle for a shorter time so i can be on "HRT" cycle more throughout the year?

Running 200mg cyp weekly split between 2 shots. I have been using arimidex at 1 mg a week ( i don't convert test to estrogen that much). PCT has been HCG and arimidex (which i am changing to Nolvadex and Aromasin and HCG unless someone tells me a better option?)

I also have hypothyroidism and i have a very fast metabolism to begin with which doesn't make sense i know, but i have to take Armour thyroid meds to get my thyroid levels back up... which makes my metabolism that much faster.

I just hate being off for 2-3 months, and since i don't produce enough test when i am off i lose a ton of weight, feel like crap, and i have 0 sex drive... weight on "HRT" 172-174 empty, weight 8 weeks being off 156...

Thanks!

**bass** · 12-08-2011, 01:30 PM

why not stay on hCG along with TRT all the time?

**kelkel** · 12-08-2011, 03:26 PM

^subscribed...

**Lemonada8** · 12-08-2011, 11:36 PM

I dont understand why you think going on a cycle will help your reproductive system... if u dont need it then all ur doing is inhibiting your own test production. if u did need it, you shouldnt be cycling and have a doc overseeing what you are doing.

When u go off cycle, of course you arent going to have the same test feeling as u do on cycle.. so im a lil perplexed on what you are trying to do.

Have you ever had blood work done? have you seen an endo about this issue? is there an underlying cause to the issues?

anyways.. as for ur pct:
HCG should be done ON cycle at 250iu 2x a week, this will keep the LH stimulation going in ur testes which is needed to keep spermatogensis going
You should use Nolva and Clomid instead of aromasin and hcg. They have additional properties and actions in the body that aromasin doesnt have.
Nolva increases LH sensitivity and responsivness which is why it should be ran 2 weeks longer than the clomid.
Clomid increases the initial LH surge, but too much can cause some desenstization to LHRH which isnt good. That desensitization also can occur with high amounts of HCG, which is ultimately counter productive.

HCG on cycle at 250iu 2x a week up untill your first day of taking PCT meds (so yes even in the weeks after ur last test shot, stay on the HCG) when u start the PCT meds (nolva/clomid) stop the HCG
Clomid for 3 weeks at 100mg ED the first week, 50mg ED the 2nd week, then 25mg ED the 3rd week
Nolva for 5 weeks at 40mg ED for the first 2 weeks, then 20mg ED for the next 3 weeks.
Then you NEED to take time off. Time on + PCT = Time off.

You should get some blood work done 1-2 weeks after ur PCT to see where your levels are.
Things you should get done are:
LH, FSH, E2, Test, Free test, SHBG, Full thyroid panel (TSH, T3, T4, FT4), Prolactin, DHEA, Pregnegolone, Progesterone

You should also get an appt with an endo to see what the problem is.

**abbot138** · 12-13-2011, 11:04 AM

Got your PM man. You sound a bit confused. If you already have Hypothyroidism then you need to be on TRT year round, your whole life, and HCG and an AI should be part of your TRT program. Considering your condition I would not cycle up, BUT if you insist then just bump up your Test and ad whatever other compounds you want. Run that for say 10-12 weeks and then come right back to to your TRT program. If you are Hypo you have no business cycling off and on.....As for the kid thing, its total BS. This board and my own personal experiences have shown time and time again that people on TRT are fully capable of having kids. Friend of mine, been on "TRT" for probably 5 years or so ( I put in parentesis bc his idea of TRT is 250mg a week, no HCG, no bloodwork), hes 35 years old, wife is 39, and she just got pregnant. Now it took them about 6 months, and he did add HCG in when they were trying, but the delay can be attributed to her age and his not using HCG just as much as it can be attributed to his use of gear. Bottom line, TRT does NOT mean no kids (it does seem to mean your more likely to have a girl tho from what ive seen, lol).....But listen to the above posts, do your bloodwork, try to find a good Doc (if you cant, it is possible to do on your own, just takes a little more time and work to get dialed in). Whatever you do, if you are truly Hypo and need to be on Test, then DO NOT COME OFF. Hope this helps.

**JohnnyVegas** · 12-13-2011, 11:59 AM

There is a lot of good technical info here, but just remember the basics: TRT is the opposite of a properly working reproductive system and a heavier cycle is even worse. Any exogenous test will lower the odds of pregnancy because it sends signals to the testicles to shut things down. You can use things like HCG to help, but you will be headed in the wrong direction overall.

**ecdysone** · 12-13-2011, 12:35 PM

Or just mix in some HMG for a couple months at a time.

**abbot138** · 12-13-2011, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by JohnnyVegas

There is a lot of good technical info here, but just remember the basics: TRT is the opposite of a properly working reproductive system and a heavier cycle is even worse. Any exogenous test will lower the odds of pregnancy because it sends signals to the testicles to shut things down. You can use things like HCG to help, but you will be headed in the wrong direction overall.

Very true. As far as maximizing potential for baby making your best bet is no exogenous test period. But if this isnt an option, its not hopeless.

**JohnnyVegas** · 12-13-2011, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by abbot138

Very true. As far as maximizing potential for baby making your best bet is no exogenous test period. But if this isnt an option, its not hopeless.

Never hopeless, there are a LOT of guy here that got their girls pregnant on heavy cycles...to their surprise. Heh.

**SEOINAGE** · 12-13-2011, 02:02 PM

My doc said HCG can take 4 months or more to get sperm production going, it can instantly jump start testosterone production, but for you to become fertile it can take some time.

edit: In all honesty though I would like to know the answer to this. My doc made it sound like he would take me off of test and put me on HCG when I wanted another kid, I just don't get why I can't just be on hcg all the time and not worry about it, and also not have to be off test for half a year to a year. If you can't be fertile on trt with hcg, then cycling would make sense, but from what I understand is that you can add in HCG and it will work. I am still going to have to convince my doctor to prescribe the hcg, and the trt the way I would like it. Just started Synthroid and waiting till next blood test to get it at the right levels before starting test, and getting the wife pregnant before i start on test just to make sure.

**zaggahamma** · 12-13-2011, 02:18 PM

subscribing as well

i was JUST thinking of starting a similar thread ...

as i have been on trt for 6 years NO HCG or anything..

wonder if lost cause?

**bladehines** · 12-20-2011, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by Lemonada8

I dont understand why you think going on a cycle will help your reproductive system... if u dont need it then all ur doing is inhibiting your own test production. if u did need it, you shouldnt be cycling and have a doc overseeing what you are doing.

When u go off cycle, of course you arent going to have the same test feeling as u do on cycle.. so im a lil perplexed on what you are trying to do.

Have you ever had blood work done? have you seen an endo about this issue? is there an underlying cause to the issues?

anyways.. as for ur pct:
HCG should be done ON cycle at 250iu 2x a week, this will keep the LH stimulation going in ur testes which is needed to keep spermatogensis going
You should use Nolva and Clomid instead of aromasin and hcg. They have additional properties and actions in the body that aromasin doesnt have.
Nolva increases LH sensitivity and responsivness which is why it should be ran 2 weeks longer than the clomid.
Clomid increases the initial LH surge, but too much can cause some desenstization to LHRH which isnt good. That desensitization also can occur with high amounts of HCG, which is ultimately counter productive.

HCG on cycle at 250iu 2x a week up untill your first day of taking PCT meds (so yes even in the weeks after ur last test shot, stay on the HCG) when u start the PCT meds (nolva/clomid) stop the HCG
Clomid for 3 weeks at 100mg ED the first week, 50mg ED the 2nd week, then 25mg ED the 3rd week
Nolva for 5 weeks at 40mg ED for the first 2 weeks, then 20mg ED for the next 3 weeks.
Then you NEED to take time off. Time on + PCT = Time off.

You should get some blood work done 1-2 weeks after ur PCT to see where your levels are.
Things you should get done are:
LH, FSH, E2, Test, Free test, SHBG, Full thyroid panel (TSH, T3, T4, FT4), Prolactin, DHEA, Pregnegolone, Progesterone

You should also get an appt with an endo to see what the problem is.

THANKS TO EVERYONE!!!!

As far as going ON CYCLE to help reproductive system, i never said that. I have to use test cause i have low test, but in doing so it hurts my reproductive system, so i cycle on and off to help to not shut my reproductive system down for good, or to help in the long run to have kids. But so far GREAT info guys!!!! Head to use my test as normal for the first 4 weeks then do 3 weeks of HCG at 250-500iu's every third day, then 5 weeks of test for a total of 12 weeks, then for PCT i got this from the forums on PCT:

Week Nolvadex HCG Aromasin Vitamin E
1 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day 1000iu/day
2 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day 1000iu/day
3 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day 1000iu/day
4 20mgs/day 20-25mgs/day
5 20mgs/day 20-25mgs/day
6 20mgs/day

I will try this out if my Doc approves, if not i will do the HCG, Clomid, and Arimidex that i already have scrips for

Again thanks so much guys i will try and keep anyone updated on what happens in the long run. I know it would be best just to be on all the time but i think in the long run i would be hurting myself... just gotta find something that works.... and since no one does legit tests anymore.. we have to rely on all of us to be the guinea pigs!

also i am seeing an endo and so far the 3 doctors i have seen have no clue whats wrong with me.... thinking a pituitary problem... i gotta get an MRI done within the next 6 months.

**bladehines** · 12-20-2011, 09:17 PM

same with my first doc, said just stay on year round till i wanted kids... i wasn't keen on that idea at all! ALSO i don't like Synthroid , it made me crazy!!!! so i use Armor thyroid which is natural, no problems with it!

**Lemonada8** · 12-20-2011, 09:48 PM

Use swiftos pct instead of phneedo( the one u have)

Clomid an nolva are better and hcg is t everyday. That pct is outdated with the new info that's out

**gearbox** · 12-21-2011, 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by Lemonada8

Use swiftos pct instead of phneedo( the one u have)

Clomid an nolva are better and hcg is t everyday. That pct is outdated with the new info that's out

where do I locate swiftos pct...thanks lemon

**Lemonada8** · 12-21-2011, 03:24 PM

The stickies and he has a q&a u can read over where he answers alot of the same question

**dec11** · 12-21-2011, 03:26 PM

HRT is not a cycle, you have to remain on it

**HitIt** · 12-21-2011, 05:44 PM

what is your count now? are you low? have you had it tested? would you cycle off hrt and not have it tested? if you do that it's all speculation. you could have it tested while on hrt to see what it does to you. but again, all speculation without tests.

**bladehines** · 12-22-2011, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by HitIt

what is your count now? are you low? have you had it tested? would you cycle off hrt and not have it tested? if you do that it's all speculation. you could have it tested while on hrt to see what it does to you. but again, all speculation without tests.

Had my testosterone tested in 2009 it was 430ng/dl, I have had it tested while I was on 200mg a week I sit at 850-900ng/dl. I had my sperm count done in 2008 it was low, can't remember the number but was way below the norm but I had movers. I plan on doing this cycle of 12 weeks and then getting my sperm count done 2-4 weeks after the pct