Could I get a quick AI opinion?

[dfwo]

Ok, I'll try and keep this really simple.

My initial total test level was 155, pre-treatment. Didn't have E2 tested.

My doc started me on 150mg of test cyp once a week.

After six weeks, my test was 350 and E2 was 38 (3-70).

So, I'm still doing the 150mg of test cyp every week and now I'm adding in HCG and Arimidex (self treating with the HCG and AI).

Would you guys start at .5mg or 1mg each week?

[devildog1967]

It usually 1mg per 100 test , split into .5 twice a week . But looking at your E2 as it stands now i would not take a AI untill it rose near the top end as if you take your E2 too low it will have the same affect as having low T.

[kelkel]

Agree with DD but I would take it one step further. If and when you start the adex cut it into quarters and start low. Maybe .25 x 2 a week. See how you respond to it. Buy a pill cutter. Quarters won't work with a knife.

Was your bw pulled the day before injection? Any other bw to post? Free, Bio.....shbg, albumin

[steroid.com 1]

I don't know what measurement units your E2 is but if it's pg/ml you want to keep your E2 levels in the 20's...mid to lower seems to be ideal.

If pg/ml the 38 is starting to get high and you could even start to see signs like lower libido and erection problems among other things.

[ecdysone]

Your 350 is dismal, if you're not going to up the test dosage then I wouldn't bother with an AI. 38 is fine, albeit on the upper side of "good." Maybe just split your test dose.

I wonder if the HCG will do much for you with boosting your test levels seeing as how you don't make much naturally.

If you insist on the AI route, consider the liquid form, and keep the dosage low (0.25-0.5 mg) until you can get some labs.

[dfwo]

Well, I don't *insist* on the AI. I just thought the 38 was a little high, and the AI might help.

My doc wants to see one more set of BW before he raises my dose of test.

[JD250]

Your 350 is dismal, if you're not going to up the test dosage then I wouldn't bother with an AI. 38 is fine, albeit on the upper side of "good." Maybe just split your test dose.

Not sure I follow you, in my mind it seems that if your test levels are low it would make e2 levels all that much more important to be perfect-ish. Of course there are many things we don't know here about his BW.

[SEOINAGE]

I would imagine your test levels will increase with the addition of hcg and arimidex , but your doctor doesn't know you are doing it, he will likely think your test levels are fine where they are at when with his protocol they wouldn't be as high.

[zaggahamma]

i CANNOT believe the e2 in the 20's theory is still being pushed without regard to symptoms or lack thereof

op, imo, at any level you gotta ask/say to yourself "if it aint broke, dont fix it"

having only the one blood test isnt 100% effecient either..now that you've added the other ancillaries the best bet would be more bloodwork and ofcourse monitor SYMPTOMS and then go from there...

how do u feel?

[dfwo]

i CANNOT believe the e2 in the 20's theory is still being pushed without regard to symptoms or lack thereof

op, imo, at any level you gotta ask/say to yourself "if it aint broke, dont fix it"

having only the one blood test isnt 100% effecient either..now that you've added the other ancillaries the best bet would be more bloodwork and ofcourse monitor SYMPTOMS and then go from there...

how do u feel?

well, I was at 150, so obviously I feel better

[flatscat]

^^^agree

[flatscat]

Agree with DD but I would take it one step further. If and when you start the adex cut it into quarters and start low. Maybe .25 x 2 a week. See how you respond to it. Buy a pill cutter. Quarters won't work with a knife.

Was your bw pulled the day before injection? Any other bw to post? Free, Bio.....shbg, albumin

This too if you feel like you must treat the 38.

[steroid.com 1]

i CANNOT believe the e2 in the 20's theory is still being pushed without regard to symptoms or lack thereof
op, imo, at any level you gotta ask/say to yourself "if it aint broke, dont fix it"

having only the one blood test isnt 100% effecient either..now that you've added the other ancillaries the best bet would be more bloodwork and ofcourse monitor SYMPTOMS and then go from there...

how do u feel?

Who said anything about disregarding symptoms???

There are a lot of men walking around feeling just "fine" but have elevated E2 levels putting their long term health into jepordy...cancer...heart disease...

Just about everything I've read from the leading Physicians and Clinicians in the field like to see E2 in men in the 20's whether or not they are on a TRT protocol or not.

It's just an ideal target range like we try for all other ranges.

It's just a rule of thumb like 1 mg of AI for every 100 mg of Test.

Jeeeezzzz....

Probably the most important question that hasn't been asked here is if the E2 panel the OP presented is a "sensitive assay". If not, the panel is basically useless.

[dfwo]

yes, I ordered the sensitive version of the estradiol test

[steroid.com 1]

yes, I ordered the sensitive version of the estradiol test

Excellent.

Now you know where you stand.

[ecdysone]

Not sure I follow you, in my mind it seems that if your test levels are low it would make e2 levels all that much more important to be perfect-ish. Of course there are many things we don't know here about his BW.

Yeah, maybe not too clear about this. Controlling E2 is more important for its side-effects, trying to drive the equilibrium back to preserving test would be a good strategy if you had borderline natural production which the OP does not.

In any event going from 38 to 28 isn't going to appreciably help the test levels - same with trying to spike test with HCG .. there simply has to be enough natty production overall for that to work.

As far as what's normal or good E2, there was a very good study that showed how important E2 is for bone development in men, and the analysis of a rather large population suggested that levels in the mid-30's were best with regard to bone density.

[dfwo]

is there any point to trying to go from 38 to 28? or am I just wasting my time with the AI at this point?

[flatscat]

At the end of the day we have the op so concerned about getting his e2 to 23 or 28 that he is treating himself without an rx and presumably without symptoms. Please correct me if I am wrong.

This has always been a concern of mine for the newly indoctrinated brothers on this board.

Drilling down to the minutia of this treatment is not always productive or correct in every thread IMO. And it seams as though that is where we are headed.

[zaggahamma]

G
I didn't see any mention of symptoms before the recommendation of lowering his e2 I'm on my phone so its hard to get the reply to quote text box to function..will follow up later

[ecdysone]

is there any point to trying to go from 38 to 28? or am I just wasting my time with the AI at this point?

If, and I think this was the case, you want to try and boost your test level, then yes. If, OTOH, your feeling not so good, and think lowering E2 would help, honestly, I don't know.

One thing though, AI's especially when used "off-label" could be metabolic 'beasty-boys,' so me, I always try to err on the conservative side.

[JD250]

Flats, very true, sometimes these threads end up going deep into the details and usually can only be understood by those who consistently bother themselves with learning more about this stuff, unfortunately it gets to be more of a technical discussion than answering any questions.........that's not ALL bad though, that's how we learn but we DO need some balance at times.

OP....Considering what little we know from the BW posted I would say to leave the e2 alone and get the test levels up then do BW again in 6 weeks and see how things look. If it were me I would want to see at least double that Test level.....there are many things we don't know from the little info you've given here so really good advice is gonna be hard to come by but we do know that 350 isn't your target level.

[zaggahamma]

g

ok...home now

so, elevated? means over 23-28? like 38...or anything higher than 28 is looked at as possible health risk...i know that elevated e2 /bad e2 to testosteron ratio has been linked to disease, etc. but thought that was meant out of the reference range..didnt know thed 23-28 "sweet spot" was directed at low risk disease

[steroid.com 1]

J - My only point was that the 20's "seems" to be the ideal range quoted and published by many known medical experts and physicians in the field.

Is 38 "high" no; but I don't want to be there...but that's just me.

He's converting there's no doubt about that, and he doesn't have a lot to begin with.

I made NO recommendation whatsoever to the OP as to "what to do" in his situation...I just made a statement and nothing more.