1st lab in:doc wants to increase test

[--->>405<<---]

so as yall know i went and had bw done cuz of ear ringing.. well of course the idiots at the lab tested for everything BUT my E2!!! so i have to call them tomorrow and prob go back and get them to chk E2.. man i tell u ... had a feeling that would happen..

anyways my doc told me my free test was 24.1 (8.7-25.6)ng/dl or whatever it is.. i have to get lab report and then ill post exact numbers but i wanted to put this up now.. he said he wants me in the 30-40 ng/dl range..

bear in mind i had my bw dun the day of my injection and i had not yet injected.. it had been 3.5 days since last injection... the doc said he wants my test higher than that and told me to increase my dose from 100mg/3.5days to 120mg/3.5days...

what do yall think about that?thatll be 240mg/week.. and he said we'll see what to do about the ear ringing which i think has stopped for now when we get my E2 results...

is this too much?? 240mg/week?? could it be possible i need that much?? doc said i should be higher than 24.1 ng/dl even on day 3.5...

thx

[--->>405<<---]

dang 99 people lookd at this thread and not one of u guys has any input??

[JD250]

Waiting for you to post other results

[kelkel]

You've got to post full BW. That new suggested protocol seems exceptionally high and unnecessary, but without seeing full BW its just conjecture at this point. Are you on any ancillaries as well? You need to ask your doc exactly what his logic is and have some sort of game plan between the both of you. Only good thing is you won't have to fast for your E2 test. If you need labcorp codes to be sure you get the correct test, pm me.

[zaggahamma]

other than the ringing in your ears how do u feel?

200mg ew is a high dose to begin with let alone 240mg...maybe you metabolize it more like some...guess yours in going to be complicated as long as u have the nagging ear thing...sorry i forgot if that started with your trt?

[--->>405<<---]

You've got to post full BW. That new suggested protocol seems exceptionally high and unnecessary, but without seeing full BW its just conjecture at this point. Are you on any ancillaries as well? You need to ask your doc exactly what his logic is and have some sort of game plan between the both of you. Only good thing is you won't have to fast for your E2 test. If you need labcorp codes to be sure you get the correct test, pm me.

not on any ancillaries as of yet.. kind of why i got bw dun friday.. wasnt sched to get it for 3 more weeks but i got the ear ringing thing and askd for it early...


this is what he tested me for i kept copy of the order:
dhea-sulfate
tsh/free t3/free t4
free &total testosterone
estradiol
psa,free and total

and thats it.. is that a normal 1st bloodwork after starting? i know yall need the ranges but im just trying to get an idea if this guy really knows what hes doing.. i think i told yall previously he trained under dr jeffry life.. and i thought he knew what was up... just this increasing the dose of test sent me a slight red flag...

he also mentioned my thyroid wasnt "optimal" and i got the impression he may wanna do something about that.. he said it wasnt low or high just not optimal..

any opinions in the meantime til i get BW results hopefully tomorrow would be appreciated.. thx

[HRTstudent]

240mg per week is a small cycle I would say. Considering that you are almost at the very top of the normal range I have no idea why your doc wants you to go higher. I would talk it over with them first. Maybe they just glanced and misread something.

[Times Roman]

other than the ringing in your ears how do u feel?

200mg ew is a high dose to begin with let alone 240mg...maybe you metabolize it more like some...guess yours in going to be complicated as long as u have the nagging ear thing...sorry i forgot if that started with your trt?

agree. 240mg/wk seems alot. I started out at 200mg eow, then 100mg wk, then finally, after labs, down to 80mg/wk. Especially with TRT, less is more. You want your free test to be at the optimum level for a 21 year old.

[--->>405<<---]

other than the ringing in your ears how do u feel?

200mg ew is a high dose to begin with let alone 240mg...maybe you metabolize it more like some...guess yours in going to be complicated as long as u have the nagging ear thing...sorry i forgot if that started with your trt?

Yeh ear ringing strted about 5 weeks into TRT..

[--->>405<<---]

^^^^. I am very aware 240mg/week is a high dose which is why i started this thread.. My doc stated that 24.1ng/dl(8.7-25.6ng/dl) was not where he wanted my test levels to be.. He said he wanted it between 30-40ng/dl... Which is well above the normal range.. I am wondering if this is a healthy level to be at for my lifetime??

[lvs]

did you mention your ear ringing to him and if so what did he say? I would hesitate to increase the dosage until you see your E2 results. Who missed the E2, did the doc not put it on the order? did he mention what his intentions are for your thyroid?

[flatscat]

Ranges are not a specific science. They are a reflection of that lab's highs and lows historically. They are a guide IMO. We say quite often that if a guy is low but still "in range" that he and his doctor should ingnore the ranges and treat anyway. Well you have just established faults with the way treatment is administered then.

I am going to step out from the other guys here and say that you are only going up 20mg's an injection here - and your physician is recommending it. If the rest of your labs look okay I don't see much harm in trying it for a while and see how you respond. You can ALWAYS go back down and probably will. Your choice, your body bro.... our opinions.

[bullshark99]

Flats has a good point, just where Im confused is you are at the top end already on Free, (just stating the obvious thats been pointed out) dont understand the logic in your Doc wanting you considereble higher and out of range?? please continue with this thread as I was running above top line last BW and my clinic is insisting it wont harm you?? Like to hear what advice you end up with.

[--->>405<<---]

did you mention your ear ringing to him and if so what did he say? I would hesitate to increase the dosage until you see your E2 results. Who missed the E2, did the doc not put it on the order? did he mention what his intentions are for your thyroid?

I did mention the ear ringing to him and he said hed never seen tinnitus a symptom in HRT for men.. He used to be an OBGYN .. i found online tinnitus has been speculated to be caused by HRT in women as well as being a symptom of female chemistry changes namely estrogen and progesterone... After reading this i linked it to my E2 but am awaiting BW to confirm.. The doc did order E2 .. The idiots at the lab just didnt test fir it.. They missed it on the order.. I have to go back today and theyll retest..

As far as thyroid he hasnt been specific as to his intentions but i get the impression he may want to make my thyroid "optimal".. I have no idea how..

I dont physically see the doc.. I saw him for initial eval and everything now is dun via email and telephone.. I believe ill have a more thorough talk once we get my E2 back... I can make appt to physically see him if i so choose..

[--->>405<<---]

Ranges are not a specific science. They are a reflection of that lab's highs and lows historically. They are a guide IMO. We say quite often that if a guy is low but still "in range" that he and his doctor should ingnore the ranges and treat anyway. Well you have just established faults with the way treatment is administered then.

I am going to step out from the other guys here and say that you are only going up 20mg's an injection here - and your physician is recommending it. If the rest of your labs look okay I don't see much harm in trying it for a while and see how you respond. You can ALWAYS go back down and probably will. Your choice, your body bro.... our opinions.

Very good point flats.. It seems to me my doc believes optimal to be between 30-40 ng/dl (8.7-25.6ng/dl)... Thats the only conclusion i can come to.. He said me being 24.1 was not high enuff in his opinion based on the amt of test im taking and wants to increase to see where it puts me.. For now i will trust his judgement.. After all i did switch to him cuz i believe he knows more about TRT than anyone where i live..

I think he may still be involved with Cenegenics(i think thats how u spell it)...He consults with dr life.. He also asked me to provide some literature for him about dr crisler.. Maybe ill do that..

And like u said i can always go back down ..

[--->>405<<---]

Flats has a good point, just where Im confused is you are at the top end already on Free, (just stating the obvious thats been pointed out) dont understand the logic in your Doc wanting you considereble higher and out of range?? please continue with this thread as I was running above top line last BW and my clinic is insisting it wont harm you?? Like to hear what advice you end up with.

Bullshark ill def keep the thread going and let u guys know how it works out... Like flats said the normal ranges are simply the average of the people the specific lab tests.. Maybe theres a school of thought out there that believes "normal" is not "optimal"???

[bullshark99]

Great, good luck, will be watching to hear his logic on the Free.

[zaggahamma]

we've noticed it does seem that many state their well being when free test is above the high in the lab's reference range

[--->>405<<---]

Great, good luck, will be watching to hear his logic on the Free.

Yeh BS im also curious myself.. I suppose it could be worse he could be the kind that is ok with me being "normal" as opposed to "optimal"..

Ill def be questioning his logic when it comes to being 10points above "high normal"

[JD250]

Need to see all the results, what was your total, did you get e2 results yet? You're asking for advice on zero information. i wouldn't have a problem with a doc that wanted to start the process on the high end of the scale or even above, maybe he wants to get you to the top of everything and then settle into a good protocol in time.

[--->>405<<---]

Yeh could be JD.. I had blood taken again today for E2 so itll be aT least tomorrow if not thursday before i know anything.. Ill also request my complete BW from doc at that time.. I suppose i started this thread.a Bit prematurely but i just wanted to get some opinions on the increase in general.. I suppose i shouldve anticipated yall needing complete BW to comment sorry..

[bullshark99]

405 forgive me, I suppose I am being a bit selfish here and highjacking your thread for my own gain regarding F tes. I realize you have some serious issue's you need to get to the bottom of and getting the rest of your BW will certainly be a start. My interest in Free is that I'm CURRENTLY AT the level your Dr wants to get you to, I was uninformed when I started this process a year ago and am still learning on the fly. i just solicited another clinic and was fortunate enough for them to review my bloodwork and give me there opinion on the high Free, according to them it wont harm you. I'm just skeptical because this is our health were talking about. I am relitively new here but have followed this board for some time. I respect JD250's views a whole bunch but it would surprise me if a Dr wanted to get a person above baseline then scale them back a bit. Could be wrong, but speaking from my experience I would be hesitant to pull back if I'm feeling good. Anyway, look forward to seeing your BW and what the Doc tells you, be well .

[--->>405<<---]

^^^ BS dont worry about it man.. If i were u id prob be doing the same thing and ur rite it is OUR HEALTH so just cuz some person says its ok doesnt mean its ok.. Were the ones that ultimately have to live or die with the consequences like i said i trust my doc at this point, to a point... But i will be asking for explanations not from a critical stance but rather simply cuz i wanna know whats going on and where his thinking is .. Maybe i can learn something..

[APIs]

Agree with Flats. Everyone is different. IMO it seems people can get caught up in the numbers too much. My Total Test & Free Test routinely comes in @ 1400+ & 40+ respectively while on 200 mgs Test Cyp ew. Been at these levels for two years now and all other parameters are in check & I feel great. Started TRT at 100 mgs ew and just didnt feel very good. My Doc is not concerned with these levels long term. I let him drive the bus on this. I hope he's right, lol...

[--->>405<<---]

well interesting phone call i got today.. my docs assistant calld to tell me they got my BW back and the doc wants me to stop takn my test? she didnt have any more info than that and said the doc would be calling me later today.. i told her i wasnt due for another shot til tomorrow.. askd her what the deal is and she said she didnt know but said apparently my E2 is high.. ill be very interested to hear what he has to say and dont understand why he didnt just call instead.. maybe he thought i was gonna give myself an injection today i dunno.. i mean im in hpta shutdown.. i cant stop taking it..willk update as soon as i know something..

[flatscat]

Dayam bro... I am sure you will get it worked out. Let us know please.

Flats

[bullshark99]

Copy that Flats, just another hurdle 405 gotta be E2 related?? Will be watching

[--->>405<<---]

Yeh gotta be.. I mean night sweAts, sore shoulders and back, anxiety, weak in gym, tired in am as well as end of day... Like i said the only thing that threw me was him sayn stop tAkn test.. But i think he meant dont take any til i hear from him which will be later today..

[lvs]

hopefully that is what he meant... Has he mentioned using an AI to you before? If he has you probably have no worries... Just hope you get your mojo back soon!

Yeh gotta be.. I mean night sweAts, sore shoulders and back, anxiety, weak in gym, tired in am as well as end of day... Like i said the only thing that threw me was him sayn stop tAkn test.. But i think he meant dont take any til i hear from him which will be later today..

[--->>405<<---]

ok well talkd to the doctor.. E2:63...

he has decided to reduce test dose from 240mg/week to 160mg/week and scripted me 3mg AI per week?? i askd him if he thought that wasnt too much as all ive read says 1mg per 100mg test..he said there are difft schools of thought on that and wants me to go with 3mg/week arimidex ...

he also said my thyroid wasnt optimal and wants me to get on Armour Thyroid at 1 pill in the am on empty stomach everyday... im not sure how i feel about taking the thyroid meds.. from what ive read the sides dont sound like anything i wanna deal with.. the doc said he put me on a "low-end middle of the road dose" and i should only feel better from it?? any of u guys take that??

fire away! thx

[--->>405<<---]

he wants to do next labs in 2 months... sounds like a long time to me considering the questions i have regarding the AI and thyroid med.. said if i experience any neg sides he will order BW sooner..

[zaggahamma]

i'd want to get re tested for e2 a lil sooner than 2 months on 3mg a week...maybe 3 or 4 weeks

[--->>405<<---]

Maybe im just a cynic but im startn to wonder bout this guy.. I hate to say it cuz i just switchd to him and forkd out a grand of my own cash when i couldve stayd with endo for free.. Endo doesnt script hcg and i think was more conservative than this guy.. Very leery of running 3 mg adex per week like u said jpkman..

[zaggahamma]

Maybe im just a cynic but im startn to wonder bout this guy.. I hate to say it cuz i just switchd to him and forkd out a grand of my own cash when i couldve stayd with endo for free.. Endo doesnt script hcg and i think was more conservative than this guy.. Very leery of running 3 mg adex per week like u said jpkman..

i know u r bro

u got a few things going on and your e2 IS up there so in all fairness 2 months prolly wont bring you down too too low...i and several others took up to 7mg a week for a while before learning better...i'm fine...the other, well, he quit posting...just kidding bro...sorry...trying to lighten it up..but i DID take that much and heard others have as well..i did run into libido issues but nothing major...at least your going to have bloodwork in 2 months at the latest..
hope you get this dialed in then bro

[--->>405<<---]

i know u r bro

u got a few things going on and your e2 IS up there so in all fairness 2 months prolly wont bring you down too too low...i and several others took up to 7mg a week for a while before learning better...i'm fine...the other, well, he quit posting...just kidding bro...sorry...trying to lighten it up..but i DID take that much and heard others have as well..i did run into libido issues but nothing major...at least your going to have bloodwork in 2 months at the latest..
hope you get this dialed in then bro

thats funny

well it makes me feel better to hear that u and others have taken more... the only knowledge i have is wat ive read about on here.. and obviously based on that im gonna be taking 2x the suggested amt.. 160mg/week i should be taking like 1.5mg not 3mg so that combined with the fact of my elevated E2 and those issues and the ear ringing and now the thyroid meds he wants me to start along with the 15 vitamins /day and 4 injections per week has got me feeling a little overwhelmed at the moment.. ive never had to take pills or had any medical issues and i really dont like the idea of having to now... i guess i dont like the idea of my health being in the hands of someone else..!!

[flatscat]

Well that sure throws a kink in the frequent injections =better E2 levels ideas. I have always thought you are either a converter or not.

I agree w Jp that you should not wait more than 3-4 weeks to get it retested especially if you are thinking about that dose. That level is high but not freak out high bro.

If it were me, I would prolly take the three Mg's the first week then drop down to 1.5 until b/w is done paying very close attention to how I felt and being very aware of any signs of low e2.

I would think you should start feeling better once it starts dropping.

I got no advise for you on the thyroid issue sorry bro.

[--->>405<<---]

thx flats .. yeh i wondered about maybe taking 3mg to start then dropping it down.. i hate to feel like i should approach this situation knowing more than my doctor.. not that i think i do but i dont understand the 3mg/week logic..

i need to look into low e2 symptoms as well thatd suck to go from high e2 rite into low e2 ...

[bullshark99]

Agree that 63 isnt freakish high, mine was 48 taking 1.5 per week. I was told to bump it up to get E2 around 30ish. Nver could get a straight answer from the clinic on how much to bump up (Imagine that HaHa), anyhow I was doing 3mgs for a couple weeks before I cut it back to 2. Might have to play with this a litle 405, but dont think 3 will hurt you short term, prob would go get more BW a litle sooner as well. good luck

[--->>405<<---]

thx BW

also i got my lab results:

Total test:1071ng/dl (348-1197)

free test:24.0pg/ml (8.7-25.1)

dhea-sulfate:403.9ug/dl (88.9-427.0)

E2:63.1pg/ml (7.6-42.6)

IGF1:296ng/ml (109-284)

after reviewing my E2 doc reduced test from 240mg/week to 160mg/week 250IU hcg 2x/week and 3mg arimidex /week..

he wants my free test between 30-40pg/ml and thinks the AI reducing my E2 will help bring the test up... wants BW in 2 months...

any thoughts thx

[bullshark99]

Hey 405, that reminds me did you ask him in his reasoning as to why he wants the Free above and beyond the top range?