Repost: Why is it important to run an AI when on cycle? - Swifto

[steroid.com 1]

Our member Swifto started this thread (link below) in another forum here but it is so well written and so well supported I truly believe it deserves to be posted here for members of our TRT forum.

There is so much truth to his words and the research to support the use of an AI whether on a cycle or TRT protocol.

Estrogen (Estradiol in our case) can be very insidious at sustained elevated levels and Swifto authored an excellent thread worthy of our time to read.

Here's the thread: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...n-cycle-Swifto

Thank you Swifto.

[Swifto]

Thank-you.

[lovbyts]

Yes very informative post and well deserved sticky.

BUT please done assume you have high E2, get your blood work done, especially on TRT. You dont want to have low E2 either as noted in the post. I know from history of blood work that on cycle my E2 is GREATLY elevated but on TRT it's in the lower 1/2 range.

I wont cycle again without starting an AI but I also wont cycle again without getting blood work, E2 tested a few weeks into cycle.

[ecdysone]

Very nicely worded and informative post (from my short time here, I would say: as always!).

However, might I mention that "balance" is the absolute key in this context. I think if we begin to think of estrogen compounds as carcinogenic, then it's not much of a leap to think of them as "evil."

In fact, estrogen is critical for bone turnover in males. You want a goodly amount to always be present. Epidemiological studies have suggested that levels in the mid to upper 30's are best in this respect.

One should be cognizant that bone density is directly related to life expectancy. For the younger guys this is of passing consequence, but for guys >50-60 it becomes vital.

Secondarily, one should be equally aware that AI's have then own issues with regard to long term safety. We are using them off-label, so all bets are off with respect to tumors, hepatic, or other organ failures afters a few decades of continuous administration.

The key here is management through good lab work... keep the levels reasonable, but don't equate "low" as necessarily good. Instead, try dosing regiments that minimize the need for AI's or at least reduce the amount needed.

Estrogen is our friend, it just needs to be controlled.

[JD250]

Very nice Swifto, Thanks. I need to do more research about AIs, I really don't have a good grasp on why us TRTers use Adex instaed of Aromisin, a little ignorance on my part I guess, any info or links to studies would be appreciated.

[steroid.com 1]

lovbyts said it correct; only BW will tell you were you are at...not symptoms. Many men can have high E2 but not present any symptoms whatsoever. It can be very insidious as mentioned.

Chasing "ideal" numbers can be a rat race but most of the best Doctor's in the business like to see E2 in the 20's. Given ecdysone's point regarding bone density and E2 levels in older men is a good point, however, I've really haven't seen any of the TRT Doc's bring it up as a concern in all that I've read.

As to longevity, women have been taking an AI in large doses for many years with little to no long term consequence. I know, we're not women, but still.

[bass]

good stuff. thanks guys!

[lovbyts]

lovbyts said it correct; only BW will tell you were you are at...not symptoms. Many men can have high E2 but not present any symptoms whatsoever. It can be very insidious as mentioned.

Chasing "ideal" numbers can be a rat race but most of the best Doctor's in the business like to see E2 in the 20's. Given ecdysone's point regarding bone density and E2 levels in older men is a good point, however, I've really haven't seen any of the TRT Doc's bring it up as a concern in all that I've read.

As to longevity, women have been taking an AI in large doses for many years with little to no long term consequence. I know, we're not women, but still.

Here here, I can contest to that. I felt fine but it turns out my E2 was 295 range 7.6 - 42.6 and my test should have been 3x what it was.

[Swifto]

Very nicely worded and informative post (from my short time here, I would say: as always!).

However, might I mention that "balance" is the absolute key in this context. I think if we begin to think of estrogen compounds as carcinogenic, then it's not much of a leap to think of them as "evil."

In fact, estrogen is critical for bone turnover in males. You want a goodly amount to always be present. Epidemiological studies have suggested that levels in the mid to upper 30's are best in this respect.

One should be cognizant that bone density is directly related to life expectancy. For the younger guys this is of passing consequence, but for guys >50-60 it becomes vital.

Secondarily, one should be equally aware that AI's have then own issues with regard to long term safety. We are using them off-label, so all bets are off with respect to tumors, hepatic, or other organ failures afters a few decades of continuous administration.

The key here is management through good lab work... keep the levels reasonable, but don't equate "low" as necessarily good. Instead, try dosing regiments that minimize the need for AI's or at least reduce the amount needed.

Estrogen is our friend, it just needs to be controlled.

Excellent post.

[ecdysone]

Thank you...coming from a veteran it's means alot!

[SEOINAGE]

Is it that estrogen compounds are carcinogenic, or else the substances used as estrogen compounds in this case were found to be carcinogenic, as in what was used for birth control. So would the naturally occurring compound do the same thing? Playing devils advocate here, because I once heard synthetic vitamin A could cause cancer whereas the form found in carrots helped to prevent cancer.