Restoring E2 levels after crashing

[jamotech]

to those that have crushed their E2 level, what was your method of bringing your e levels back up? Specifically, how long did you skip your AI dose? Never gone through this before, so im curious how long it will take to go up. Im still having some joint pain, libido is almost back. I should be able to tell when I should go back on the AI, but I figured id get some input from those that have gone through it and get an idea of a time frame.

Thanks

Jamo

[kelkel]

Jamo I'm still recovering from it. I was at less than 3 at 1.5mg ai per week. Cut it in half, retested one month later at 5. Went totally off the ai and started Nolva. Next test one month later was at 15. Another month passed by and I just retested again. Results should be in tomorrow and I'm hoping to be in the 20's. Made a world of difference with joint pain/libido (there's a joke there.) Anyway, I highly recommend the serm to get you through this process if your having any sensitivity issues.

Crashing it happens fast. Restoring it takes time.

[xelnaga]

Depends on how much gear im on. If Im on 500 mgs of test I will drop my AI for a week to ten days, then begin a revised dose of my anti E, in order to prevent another crash. If im on more test or dbol - I tend to just lower my AI and continue. Dbol gets my estrogen up quick.

[jamotech]

wow Kel, cant wait to see what your numbers are after 3 months. Thanks, very helpful info!

xelnaga, thanks for the response...although my situation is different as im on a very low dose of test, your method combined with dosage info still gives me a good measuring stick (theres NO joke there), thanks!

[Vettester]

Kelkel is right, it will indeed take a little time. You will start to feel the effects of estrogen rebound within 1 to 2 weeks. As Kelkel mentioned, get some Nolvadex to mitigate the sensitivity issues that it will cause with the nipples. 20mg/day should be sufficient. Everyone's time frame will be different with it, but if you're lucky you might be able to taper down the Nolva after 1 week, maybe 2 weeks.

With a little luck you might be back in the 20's on your E2 in 6 - 8 weeks. It really depends on how much conversion is taking place in your body. I would run labs in 6 weeks to see where you sit.

[flatscat]

This is a great thread and one we all can learn from. Some key take aways from this:

1. Some folks don't convert easily and might not even need an a.i.. Those that do will see their numbers rebound pdq.

2. Some folks don't need the 1mg per 100mg of test as is so often said is a general rule of thumb.

3. It is always best to treat elevated e2 off of a confirmed lab result, and to start with a low dose.

4. You have to pay attention to and know your body.

5. Imho, it is always best to be somewhat elevated than to be somewhat suppressed.

Hope your rebound happens soon!

flats

[jamotech]

Thanks vette and flats, its worth mentioning that this is another reason to get the E2 sensitive assay vs. total estrogens. For my pre-trt labs, a total only was done and it showed very high, causing me and the doc to go with a higher ai dose. If an E2 sensitive was done, it may have been night and day in comparison, to quote Crisler.
Granted, I was suffering from moodiness that I attributed to high E2, as the AI had almost an immediate effect on my mental. I originally thought I was one to convert easily based on the total test, that doesn't seem to be the case now.

[kelkel]

Jamo I wanted to keep your thread going since it's relevent. Results came in today and E2 went from 15 up to just 16 in the last month. I feel good at that level and will ride it out for a while. More bw scheduled next month and will have doc write a couple extra scripts for more E2 testing to watch the progress. I'm obviously not converting much at this point.

[bass]

Jamo I wanted to keep your thread going since it's relevent. Results came in today and E2 went from 15 up to just 16 in the last month. I feel good at that level and will ride it out for a while. More bw scheduled next month and will have doc write a couple extra scripts for more E2 testing to watch the progress. I'm obviously not converting much at this point.

wow only 1 point! what is the margin of error? LOL! Kel, thats great you don't convert, better for your health and pocket!

[flatscat]

Hey kel, are you doing sub q or twice weekly? I was thinking if so you could test the reverse "theory" about e2 and go to the old fashioned once a week intra muscular and see if that will raise it.

I just think at that level you are too low even of you feel okay. As you know we still need e for a plethora of things.

[kelkel]

Flats since starting injectables I've been doing twice weekly, one IM and one SQ.I don't think I can fathom the thought of that weekly drop. I'm pretty damn picky about this crap. I'm planning on boosting my T and adding some deca (doc prescribed) early spring so if it doesn't continue to rise on its own that should kick it up a bit. Been a learning experience for sure! Sure wish my initial doc would have gotten a baseline E test when this stuff began!

[flatscat]

Okay it was just a thought. Some of us don't have that crash on weekly. Either way this is unusual. What about foods that may help bump it up a little?

[kelkel]

Not really up on that but will research it. Pass on some knowledge if you will! I'm all T and low E!

[jamotech]

kel, have you thought about dropping the nolva? to go down only 1 point in a month, that nolva is working a little too well I think...

[jamotech]

and what dosage are you taking?

[kelkel]

I'm off the nolva (20mg) but it won't effect the total E, just prohibit it from binding to receptors in the breast area. Remember I was on the nolva while I went from 5 to 16.

[flatscat]

Not an expert either but you can look at broccoli and soy products to start with bro.

[jamotech]

True, just had to re-read the profile to remember!

[Logonzo]

Flax does as well, as per some studies.

[kelkel]

Broccoli and Soy, flax. Damn. No one will want to be in the room with me. I will look into it. Thanks guys. I will update this thread mid march after my next test and see if it takes another dramatic 1 point bump.

[flatscat]

Foods that increase estrogen in the body include: soybean products such as tofu and soy milk, lima beans, berries, apples, papaya, dates, plums, pomegranates, beets, eggplant, tomatoes, yams, olives, potatoes, barley, rice, hops, oats, wheat, flaxseeds, chickpeas, garlic, parsley, clover, split peas, sprouts and licorice.

Read more: Foods That Increase Estrogen in the Body | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_5066472_foods-increase-estrogen-body.html#ixzz1lzG6iYlg

lol let's see you work all of these into your diet....

[kelkel]

Toss them in the blender-hit puree and hope for the best!

Thanks Flats!

[kelkel]

BW just in again. E dropped from 16-15. (see post 2 & 8) No AI at all. It seems that my normal level is just naturally low. Anyone have any thoughts/experience with inherent low E?

I know what a lot of you are thinking, great excuse to bump up the test!

[abbot138]

Just checking in kelkel....No thoughts or experience with inherent low E. But if you feel fine, joints, libido, boners, lol, then id say its definately possible. And if you dropped 1 point without any AI, then Ive got to believe this is close to a "normal" level for you. Where are your T levels at? As I mentioned to you in our PM my first reaction to all of this was to bump my test dose. Seems like if you are are under the normal range and could get away with a little more test it couldnt hurt to try.....I am into week two of no AI and 20mg Nolva. Going in for bloodwork next week im thinking. I know I should wait another week or two but my joints feel fine, libido is coming back, still feel a little bloated though and no middle of the night or morning wood. Basically getting a lot of mixed signals and I really want to know where I am at so I can adjust if needed. Its a beotch bc I dont want to let it get too high again because then Im just dealing with more sides and more time to get dialed in. I'd like to catch E2 slightly above normal, so I could start on a very low dose AI schedule like we discussed, then go back in a month.....One thing is for sure, I WILL NEVER CRASH AGAIN. Like you said, after all this Id rather be a little high than crashed.

[bass]

i think its time for a blast!

[abbot138]

i think its time for a blast!

+1

[ecdysone]

My suggestion would be to use 2000IU HCG a week for several weeks.

That is, unless your balls blow up like a balloon!

[kelkel]

^^^They're still on the small side from basically being shut down for so long w/o knowing it, thanks Mr. Adenoma. That is a thought Ecd to increase intratesticular E2 and see what it does..I see my doc next week and will discuss options.

Bass: So noted!

Abbott: I'd still give it the full month before testing. Stay on the nolva. Keep me/us posted please.

[abbot138]

Gotcha.....Will do.....you too.

[jamotech]

Interesting kel, I agree with Bass, time for a blast! Ideal time for deca as the low E will help reduce(or eliminate) the chance of progesterone sides, at least that was the theory for myself.

But seriously, your condition is something we can all learn from, Id be curious to see what an HRT doc says about the situation, or what his/her recommendations would be. Ecd does have an interesting suggestion to raise intratesticular E2, may be the only option besides raising your test dose?

Personally, I think I may have rebounded, first I noticed libido is back, no more joint pain. Hoping a blood test next week will confirm. Ill update the thread when I can give an accurate update, still fiddling with the ai dose as there seems to be a fine line between high and low E2 symptoms for my body. Ive been at .25 3x a week, half of what I was taking before. I also raised my test from 120mg a week to 150mg.

[kelkel]

Definitly keep this going with your numbers too Jamo. Side note if I ever need adex again I will probably compound it down to .125 to have more control.

[jamotech]

I was also thinking about having more control over the dose, cutting it into quarters isnt bad, but 8th's? I wish they made a .5mg tab, that would give us the .125 dose easily. My clinic has compounded .5mg CAPSULES, cant split those, what do you mean "compound it down"?

[kelkel]

Compounding pharmacy I use makes it from scratch to whatever dose you like. Or, they will take current pills and reduce them for you. Neat place. Doc writes it, they can make it. It's also a training facility for pharmacological students who are required to spend a certain amount of time there actually learning the chems from the ground up. Creating them from basic compounds, so to speak. Amazing place.

[ConArmas]

Thanks jamotech and kelkel for posting this. Unfortunately, I think I sunk my E2 and reading this is encouraging.

[reporich]

This is a great thread, plenty to learn. Im waiting for my blood work to come back to see where I'm at?. I've had brain fog the last few days,not fun.

[kelkel]

^^^Let us know where you guys land with your E2 please.

[fjr02]

Yes, this is a great thread.
Presently dealing with some progesterone conversion sides myself. I'm reading some good information here.
Nolvadex - hmm. I'll mention this to my doc.
Thanks

[jamotech]

Yes, this is a great thread.
Presently dealing with some progesterone conversion sides myself. I'm reading some good information here.
Nolvadex - hmm. I'll mention this to my doc.
Thanks

The Nolvadex will not help with progesterone sides, caber or prami will. Nolvadex is a serm and will block estrogen receptors in the breast, preventing or reversing gyno from ESTROGEN only, it will not prevent estradiol from aromatizing. However if you keep your estradiol in check with an AI, it will help prevent unwanted progesterone conversion, but if your already having progesterone sides then its too late for that and you need caber or prami.

[jamotech]

Compounding pharmacy I use makes it from scratch to whatever dose you like. Or, they will take current pills and reduce them for you. Neat place. Doc writes it, they can make it. It's also a training facility for pharmacological students who are required to spend a certain amount of time there actually learning the chems from the ground up. Creating them from basic compounds, so to speak. Amazing place.

That is very neat! Interesting to find that compounding pharmas go back quite far in medical history, never heard of them at all until hrt.

[abbot138]

Estradiol 52!!! Pretty pumped. I went two weeks with no AI and my normal TRT dose of 140mg, then I bumped Test up to 300mg for a week to see what would happen. Started feeling better after a couple days, so I went against kelkel's advice (sorry ) and had my bloodwork done. Test was at 1440 which obviously needs to come down, but I really just wanted to take care of Estradiol as fast as possible. I will never crash it again, awful experience. Im going to drop my TRT dose to 120mg until my next bloodwork and will be starting Adex at .25mg 12 hours after Test shots (twice a week), and adjust from there.....Thanks again kel for all the help.