Should I put myself on trt?? my VA DR would give me my script and everything I need..

[PetrX]

Im 27, 6'3 235 lbs and my bf is 7-8%. Im a type 1 diabetic, my bw showed that everything is under control - sugars, kidneys, liver, heart, vitamin d ( which i take everyday) along with b-12 . I had bw done back in sept 2011 and my free test was at 11.2 (range-8.8-27), my test was 216 (range-241-827), SEX HORMONE BINDING GLOBULIN was 42.99 (range-17.3-65.8), and THYROTROPIN 1.668 (range-0.55-4.78).. Since leaving the ARMY in 2009 (became type 1 diabetic) Ive stayed active, played minor leagues baseball till I decided I wanted my doctorate in pharmacalogy. About a year ago, I started feeling sluggish, lethargic, had no enerygy, constant headaches, ect.. My diet has always been great and well balanced. 250 grams of protein a day min, 200-400 carbs a day,, 1.5-2 gallons of water daily, omega fats , ect So i knew it wasn't my diet slipping. I drink a beer a week if even that. I was still going to the gym but literally dragging myself, had no energy but still pushed , it got so bad that sometimes tears would come out and i was miserable.. Dr said i was depressed but i knew it wasnt that and i refused to take the meds. So I replaced my va dr I saw was competent and we both agreed my testosterone might be the issue especially since im a type 1 diabetic on insulin . So the tests came back and my test was low as suspected. He then ran an mri for to see if I had pt tumor and the mri came back negative. So I decided to wait a few months and have my test checked again.. I started eating more steak and eggs , avocados, olives, seeds, nuts, whole fat dairy products,and cooking with olive oil (instead of flax seed oil), foods that increase test levels. My new test levels came back yesterday and my test doubled to 445 ng/dl (range- 241-827). My dr knows Im 2 years away from my PHD in pharmacology at USC and knows its stressful and also knows i have quite a bit of knowledge in general ( i was a combat medic).. So he said that testosterone is not an area that the VA's spend alot of time on therefore there knowledge on that is somewhat limited. He knows that im a great shape, strict diet, ect and told me that my test is somewhat low-low avg for my age and for someone as active as me. So he gave me an option to go on trt, either androderm patches or test e in order to reach and maintain my test levels at around 700-800 and see if that helps my sense of well-being, energy levels, and help deal with school and stuff.. Since it would be a life-long commitment, would it be a bad idea to go on trt for life to maintain my test levels at 700-800 for good? I would have everything I need for free, such as test e, supplies, hcg , blood tests when ever I want , ect. my recent test results are as follows .. thanx in advance





ALBUMIN 4.4 g/dL 3.2-4.8
ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE 85 U/L 33-94

CHOLESTEROL 148 mg/dL <200
CHOLESTEROL.IN HDL 43 Low mg/dL >45
CHOLESTEROL.IN HDL/CHOLESTEROL.TOTAL 3.4 Ratio 2.8-5.0
CHOLESTEROL.IN LDL 85 mg/dL <99

CREATININE 0.81 mg/dL .66-1.28

TRIGLYCERIDE 49.2 mg/dL 40-160
CORTISOL 7.78 ug/dL – Range- 4.30 - 22.40

SEX HORMONE BINDING GLOBULIN 47.97 nmol/ - Range- L 17.3-65.8
TESTOSTERONE 445.57 ng/dL- range 241-827
TESTOSTERONE.FREE 8.9 pg/ml - Range-8.8-27

[bullshark99]

Pet,

My first thought is if thats you in the picture, you dont need TRT!! LOL. Actually an impressive paragraph, you have had a quite a journey in life so far. Its pretty clear you are very educated, also hats off to your diet. Being a diabetic, I'm sure you do what you need to nutrition wise. Guys with much more experience than I will chime in, however, your T level (last test) is not so bad, not bad at all. if you were natuarally able to bring it up to the mid 400"s maybe you can do HcG or even (I beleive ) a SERM to get it higher without having to go full bore TRT?? I would certainly think a "gel" would be enough to elevate you up if need be. The real question here is ( and certainly Im not qualified to answer) how will/does TRT coincide with diabetes? Does/will this increase a risk of something somewhere down the line?? Lipid panels as you know, blood count and numerous other things?

Best of luck, I will be curious how some of the more educated members respond.

[PetrX]

Pet,

My first thought is if thats you in the picture, you dont need TRT!! LOL. Actually an impressive paragraph, you have had a quite a journey in life so far. Its pretty clear you are very educated, also hats off to your diet. Being a diabetic, I'm sure you do what you need to nutrition wise. Guys with much more experience than I will chime in, however, your T level (last test) is not so bad, not bad at all. if you were natuarally able to bring it up to the mid 400"s maybe you can do HcG or even (I beleive ) a SERM to get it higher without having to go full bore TRT?? I would certainly think a "gel" would be enough to elevate you up if need be. The real question here is ( and certainly Im not qualified to answer) how will/does TRT coincide with diabetes? Does/will this increase a risk of something somewhere down the line?? Lipid panels as you know, blood count and numerous other things?

Best of luck, I will be curious how some of the more educated members respond.

Yea thats me in the picture. Becoming diabetic made modify my diets somewhat. Well if I did go on trt , that would mean optimal test levels , which would allow me to build more muscle and use more sugar at the same time especially with my diet and active life style.. So i figured I would require less insulin due to my body adding more muscle and using more sugar which would lower my sugar at the same time.. and since my liver , kidneys, heart, cholestrol, ect are all normal, trt would be safe as long as i can achieve the 700-800 test levels and maintain them. Im also curious of the gels like the andro patch..the cream seems too messy. Thanks for your input, i will research the gel/patch and hcg a little more. I hadn't thought about seeing what hcg could do in this situation.

[bass]

i agree with BullShark regarding hCG , but you're in great situation for getting your meds if needed! as far as i know regarding dubieties and TRT is fine, heck we have some members here who had cancer and they are on TRT, and we all know TRT and cancer don't go together very well, so being diabetic i don't think there is a concern especially with your life style. your free test is still at the bottom and thats whats important not your total, if these other methods don't do it then I'd suggest to consider TRT, its the only way you can maintain your built and your life style. keep us posted, and good luck!

[bass]

go shots if you can get them!

[PetrX]

i agree with BullShark regarding hCG, but you're in great situation for getting your meds if needed! as far as i know regarding dubieties and TRT is fine, heck we have some members here who had cancer and they are on TRT, and we all know TRT and cancer don't go together very well, so being diabetic i don't think there is a concern especially with your life style. your free test is still at the bottom and thats whats important not your total, if these other methods don't do it then I'd suggest to consider TRT, its the only way you can maintain your built and your life style. keep us posted, and good luck!

Yea thats what had me leaning to just going on trt for good. I mean for my situation, all I can see are positives. The dr told me to call him and let him know what I decide. So im thinking of doing doing 75 a week of test E, as far as hcg , I have no idea what to start with and how often.

[ecdysone]

Try HCG first. At your age it'll probably help and it's the least invasive therapy you could undertake.

[bullshark99]

^^^^^^^ Thats kind of what I was thinking. Pet, all your points regarding sugar seem well thought out and rt on. 75 a week of E MAY..... MAY do more damage than good? This should be enough to effectively shut you down, and your T levels may not get much higher on that amount even when you peak (36-48 hrs later. Just from this board I have heard guys claim anything under a 100 is a waste of time. HcG 250iu 2x per wk mat be a good starting point.

[PetrX]

Ah I forgot about the shut-down part. Good point bullshark, maybe 150 a week would be a better start.. I might give HCG a try first and see its effects in 60 days and put the test E vials in storage. Thankguys.

[bullshark99]

Thats what i was thinking.... Dont forget about the A.I. either. keep the thread going,like to see how things are in 60 days.

[bass]

Ah I forgot about the shut-down part. Good point bullshark, maybe 150 a week would be a better start.. I might give HCG a try first and see its effects in 60 days and put the test E vials in storage. Thankguys.

you can store you're test up to three years, so you're good there. i am curious to see if hCG will do it for you, if not then since you have the choice and flexibility i recommend starting with 60 mgs test twice a week, not sure if you did e2 test, if not i recommend doing one and if your e2 is a little on the high side start with 0.5 mg AI 12-24 hours after each injection. 4-6 weeks later do blood work and adjust from there.

[PetrX]

you can store you're test up to three years, so you're good there. i am curious to see if hCG will do it for you, if not then since you have the choice and flexibility i recommend starting with 60 mgs test twice a week, not sure if you did e2 test, if not i recommend doing one and if your e2 is a little on the high side start with 0.5 mg AI 12-24 hours after each injection. 4-6 weeks later do blood work and adjust from there.

How long should I give hcg to then view the results?? My dr said the va will cover me on what ever I need at no cost to me since we were able to write a statement with proof that diabetes and insulin lowers testosterone and my dr recommended that my levels were not optimal , so I've asked for hcg, test e so far as a.I goes, I still need to do research on that..any input would greatly be appreciated

[bass]

for me my boys almost disappeared within 4-6 months into TRT, then started hCG , now my boys are back to normal size and functioning well. bur read GDevine's post regarding hCG for other benefits. BTW it took about 3 months when i started noticing improvements, so my advice is to do hCG immediately if you canto avoid atrophy because recovery is very slow.

[PetrX]

for me my boys almost disappeared within 4-6 months into TRT, then started hCG, now my boys are back to normal size and functioning well. bur read GDevine's post regarding hCG for other benefits. BTW it took about 3 months when i started noticing improvements, so my advice is to do hCG immediately if you canto avoid atrophy because recovery is very slow.

My Dr and I decided that I will follow the following TRT Protocol: 160 mg weekly of Test Enanthate and 250 iu twice a week of HCG as a starting point. Hopefully this does the trick. I will be injecting 40 mg eod via subQ starting on Mondays. I chose SubQ since im use to it with insulin and have never had an issue with it. I have no marks, scarring, lumps, and so on. Ill update it once I get the new BW done in about 4-6 weeks.

[bass]

welcome to the TRT world PetrX, in few short week you will feel great, and i am glad you decided to do hCG . i am sure AI will come later but lets hope with small doses you may not need it. please keep us posted.

[PetrX]

welcome to the TRT world PetrX, in few short week you will feel great, and i am glad you decided to do hCG. i am sure AI will come later but lets hope with small doses you may not need it. please keep us posted.

Ill keep you guys posted especially with the whole Sub Q effectiveness question. Hopefully I wont need an AI lol

[ecdysone]

Don't take this wrong because if there's one thing we do around here is watch out for each other, BUT you need to read the stickies and do a little more research before jumping into this.

My (our) recommendation is you just try HCG by itself: look up the Shippen protocol and see if that helps you. At your age it is quite possible that 500-1000IU of HCG each week itself might double your test levels. There's no guarantee.

Second, eod for test-enanthate is a waste of syringes... at most you should do it 2 times/week.

Third, you simply cannot ignore E2. At least have it measured and then see what happens, otherwise you may be negating any improvement the test might give you.

[PetrX]

Don't take this wrong because if there's one thing we do around here is watch out for each other, BUT you need to read the stickies and do a little more research before jumping into this.

My (our) recommendation is you just try HCG by itself: look up the Shippen protocol and see if that helps you. At your age it is quite possible that 500-1000IU of HCG each week itself might double your test levels. There's no guarantee.

Second, eod for test-enanthate is a waste of syringes... at most you should do it 2 times/week.

Third, you simply cannot ignore E2. At least have it measured and then see what happens, otherwise you may be negating any improvement the test might give you.

I'm not jumping on the test e injections just yet, I'm going to save them for "blast cycle" I think they call it later down the road or something..I'm going to tryi 750 iu a week of hcg for 6 weeks and see if any improvements are achieved. As far as test e eod subq goes, I get everything I need for free from my va so I pretty don't need to worry about syringes and stuff =) ..also, I read on here that sub q injections help with maintaining better and more stable e2 levels ..small amounts of test e eod via subq should also prevent lumps and build ups ect. drs at the va allow me to have bw and what ever I need checked when I ever I request it..I have a great relationship with that va hospital. So I will be getting bw done every 3-4 weeks to monitor everything that's for sure. This should be rather interesting

[PetrX]

Don't take this wrong because if there's one thing we do around here is watch out for each other, BUT you need to read the stickies and do a little more research before jumping into this.

My (our) recommendation is you just try HCG by itself: look up the Shippen protocol and see if that helps you. At your age it is quite possible that 500-1000IU of HCG each week itself might double your test levels. There's no guarantee.

Second, eod for test-enanthate is a waste of syringes... at most you should do it 2 times/week.

Third, you simply cannot ignore E2. At least have it measured and then see what happens, otherwise you may be negating any improvement the test might give you.

I'm not jumping on the test e injections just yet, I'm going to save them for "blast cycle" I think they call it later down the road or something..I'm going to tryi 750 iu a week of hcg for 6 weeks and see if any improvements are achieved. As far as test e eod subq goes, I get everything I need for free from my va so I pretty don't need to worry about syringes and stuff =) ..also, I read on here that sub q injections help with maintaining better and more stable e2 levels ..small amounts of test e eod via subq should also prevent lumps and build ups ect. drs at the va allow me to have bw and what ever I need checked when I ever I request it..I have a great relationship with that va hospital. So I will be getting bw done every 3-4 weeks to monitor everything that's for sure. This should be rather interesting

[APIs]

I'm not jumping on the test e injections just yet, I'm going to save them for "blast cycle" I think they call it later down the road or something..I'm going to tryi 750 iu a week of hcg for 6 weeks and see if any improvements are achieved. As far as test e eod subq goes, I get everything I need for free from my va so I pretty don't need to worry about syringes and stuff =) ..also, I read on here that sub q injections help with maintaining better and more stable e2 levels ..small amounts of test e eod via subq should also prevent lumps and build ups ect. drs at the va allow me to have bw and what ever I need checked when I ever I request it..I have a great relationship with that va hospital. So I will be getting bw done every 3-4 weeks to monitor everything that's for sure. This should be rather interesting

Nice thread OP & thanks for your service to our country. It's great that you've found a someone to work with from the VA considering the trouble other Vets are encountering getting help with TRT. Your history with diabetes may actually be of benefit to you in some ways. Being a diabetic I'm sure you’re already in-sync with your body, knowing when something doesn’t feel right, plus you've developed a strict daily discipline with your meds to maintain good health which can only be of benefit to you in TRT. Plus, being in Pharmacology makes you very familiar with drugs & Active Ingredients in general. You'll already have the ability to catch on fast regarding the various drugs involved & their dosing, half-life stats etc. Hell you probably have more working knowledge with certain drugs than most Doctors do. If you go the TRT route, I'm thinking you already know that the combination of Diabetes & TRT can only be managed with your Doctor through regular BW, but it sounds like you’re well ahead of the curve on this. The only thing I can add is on the AI. You're already a pretty lean guy, so I wouldn’t get too crazy worrying about this right away. You'll likely need it at some point, but you'll have a min 2-3 months after starting TRT before your first BW results come in which will tell where your E2 is at & what AI dosing is required. Good luck & keep us updated!

[PetrX]

so a quick update.. my dr and I brought in the endo from the hospital and she was actually pretty up to date and was pretty intrigued with my situation. In the end we decided to give androderm patches a try at 6 mg ( which comes out to 200 mg a week) since i get my stuff free for life, she suggested to avoid the shot for now and try androderm and see how i respond to it, she gave me a 60 day supply and we did a bw panel today and ill monitor that and post the results.. she said the patch will offer much more stable levels and less estrogen problems.. im kinda curious so im on board..ill post the results within the next 2-3 weeks

[Brohim]

how do you get free care if you OUT of the Army? Just curious.

[PetrX]

how do you get free care if you OUT of the Army? Just curious.

I got a service connected disability of 50% ( i have no idea why) and the drs like me so anytime i need something, they connect it to my diabetes so i dont have to pay lol Im one of the fortunate. But Im working on my Pharm D and do my hoursand volunteer work at that va so that gives me plus points with the staff.

[bass]

I got a service connected disability of 50% ( i have no idea why) and the drs like me so anytime i need something, they connect it to my diabetes so i dont have to pay lol Im one of the fortunate. But Im working on my Pharm D and do my hoursand volunteer work at that va so that gives me plus points with the staff.

well deserved IMO, all service men and women should be taken care of for the rest of their life at least health care. i look forward to see your next update.

[zaggahamma]

well deserved IMO, all service men and women should be taken care of for the rest of their life at least health care. i look forward to see your next update.

x2...................MILLION!

[PetrX]

well deserved IMO, all service men and women should be taken care of for the rest of their life at least health care. i look forward to see your next update.

Agreed ..that's the reason I decided to pursue the phd for pharmacist instead of just taking a home security job at the fbi building..my dr told about how many vets have died because the pharm techs or pharmacists didn't take the extra time to explain the meds to the vets and they ended up taking either not taking enough of the medication or over dosed ..that's when I decided that with my background and graduating from usc would easily put me as one of the head pharmacist at the va hospital and I could make sure people take the extra 5 mins or so to explain and make sure the vets understand how the meds work, how much, and how to use them. Its amazing how some people just don't care about their job or the people they are suppose to help these days

[bass]

i know we're getting off topic here, but just wanted to say i get so disgusted when i see the commercial with Trace Atkins asking viewers to help the Wounded Warriors, i get so angry at our government knowing that all politicians get taken care of for the rest of their lives with the best medical care in the world and full pay retirement while those who lost a limb, killed and their families struggle to stay alive. its people like Trace Atkins and the American people who take the time and help these folks makes this country so great, NOT the stupid politicians!

[zaggahamma]

i know we're getting off topic here, but just wanted to say i get so disgusted when i see the commercial with Trace Atkins asking viewers to help the Wounded Warriors, i get so angry at our government knowing that all politicians get taken care of for the rest of their lives with the best medical care in the world and full pay retirement while those who lost a limb, killed and their families struggle to stay alive. its people like Trace Atkins and the American people who take the time and help these folks makes this country so great, NOT the stupid politicians!

your on a roll bro
endorsed again
minus the off topic talk