New to HRT and need some help

**Oldhighlander** · 02-25-2012, 03:06 PM

I bielive this was a paper from 09.I didn't see any others about this topic on his site.If there is something newer I would like to see it.

**zaggahamma** · 02-25-2012, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by J DIESEL3

I believe what you were reading oldhighlander was not a updated version.Dr. Crisler at one time did prefer the gel for trt but now recommends injection.Someone correct me on this if I'm wrong.

x2...

**Oldhighlander** · 02-26-2012, 11:06 AM

Anybody? Buehler? Buehler?

**Oldhighlander** · 02-28-2012, 05:00 PM

I am having blood work done again on 3/18.I am injecting every 2 weeks still at 1ml.Should I test after 2 weeks without an injection when I know I am low or should I test within a few days of an injection?Opinions please.After this blood work I am going to try to convince my doc to put me on a weekly injection.Which scenario do you think will sway her more?

**HRTstudent** · 02-28-2012, 07:19 PM

With injections, you typically test just prior to your next injection. Either the day before or the morning of. This will get your trough number, but that is useful.

Some doctors also test a few days after an injection to get a peak number.

Quite frankly, the trough number is more important (to me) because if I am normal for 3 days, but subnormal for the rest.... then I'm probably still feeling poor.

A weekly protocol will keep your highs lower (good thing) and your lows higher (another good thing). It typically also has benefits in estradiol as well because you do not go as supraphysiological as you would on a larger, more infrequent 2 week shot.

**Oldhighlander** · 02-28-2012, 08:36 PM

Those were my thouhgts too.When I have tested in the past it was always at the end of the 2 weeks right before my next injection.I am going to push for the once a week protocol too.Everybody here swears by it and I have found 3 guys in my sporting world that I compete against who are on it.I contacted them and they say the same thing about how often,needle gauge and length,and injection sites.So I guess I have the answers I was looking for several times over.Thanks and I will post my results when I get them and update on if my protocol changes.

**Oldhighlander** · 03-07-2012, 05:39 AM

I have blood work done on 3/18 and I am sure I will test low because of my current protocol.Question,can you have shrinkage even though you are still low?Maybe it's my imagination but I think I have some shrinkage.Opinions please.

**SEOINAGE** · 03-07-2012, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Oldhighlander

I have blood work done on 3/18 and I am sure I will test low because of my current protocol.Question,can you have shrinkage even though you are still low?Maybe it's my imagination but I think I have some shrinkage.Opinions please.

Yep, exogenous test will still shut you down, hence why after i started my test scores ended up even lower than before, and I noticed the shrinkage big time. Even worse now and keeps going.

**Oldhighlander** · 03-07-2012, 12:38 PM

The shrinkage is slight but it is there and they seem to be pulled up to my body a little more then usual. So what do you suggest I do now?I am having blood work done on 3/18.Should I wait for the results and then tell the doc or do I tell her right away?

**Oldhighlander** · 03-08-2012, 05:20 AM

So what's my next move?Any suggestions?

**Mr Bill** · 03-08-2012, 06:08 AM

Originally Posted by Oldhighlander

So what's my next move?Any suggestions?

I would call the doc now and have a conversation about the way I feel to see if he has the answers. If the doc doesn't have the answers then you will be able to start looking for a new doc sooner. My first doc an endo put me on gel that made my t go down and my e go up. Then I had sensitve nips and the shrinkage. The endo just doubled my dose of gel and would not give me HCG or an AI. I then went to an urologist and his answer was to change me from gel to Testim. That didn;t work! So then his answer was to go to injections. I went in for my first injection of 200mg of test E and was told to get my blood work done in three weeks. If my lab work showed that I was still low he would up my dose and give me the injection every three weeks. I took the injection went home and made an appointment with a clinic. The clinic got me dialed in but it cost a good bit of money out of pocket. When it was time for me to oder my last round of meds I stopped into my local compound pharmacy and they gave me names of a couple of local docs that practice TRT. I saw the doc went over all my labs and was ordered all my meds(T cyp, HGC, AI)and my insurance picks up the tab (so far).

**Oldhighlander** · 03-08-2012, 06:30 AM

My problem with a new doc is I have an HMO and am at the mercy of my primary.There is a clinic close to where I live but it looks to me it caters to the rich and not average Joe's like me if you know what I mean.I really need to have a talk with my doc to see what she actually knows about this stuff and how willing she is to learn if she doesn't know much about it at all.

**Oldhighlander** · 03-09-2012, 09:18 AM

Just called my doc's office to see if She ordered an estrodial test for me like I requested along with my normal blood work and she has approved it.I take that as a good sign that she is willing to work with me.I plan on having a talk with her about my protocol and if my estrogen is high what we can do about that.I will post results when I get them and let everyone know How the talk with her goes.I am sure I will be looking for more advice also.I have gotten good info from everyone and thank you all for it.

**Oldhighlander** · 03-22-2012, 05:59 PM

Just got my labs back.Test 412 up from 237.The one before that was 318,don't know why it dropped.Free test 96 up from 53.% free test 2.3 up from 2.2.E 43.5.I am not sure if this was male specific.I suspect it was not but I specified it to the doc.It did say female on the results so I'm not sure.I have a call in to her to clarify.I was on 200mg every 2 weeks for this last test and tested at the end of the 2 week period before I took my next dose so I should have been low.I talked to her about once a week and she agreed and told me to go to 200mg every week and test again in a month.So what do you guys think?I am not sure about the E because the results didn't give me a range but I am reading in the area of 30 is good.I will ask the doc when she calls.

**DaRoq** · 03-23-2012, 05:36 AM

As mentioned, your levels went from 318 to 237 most like due to shutdown of your normal testosterone production.

If the Estradiol test did not include "Sensitive" in the name and indicated female for the ranges, then it's probably not. That being said, it's believed that the results given for men are overstated by 30%. To put that into perspectve, my latest results were ~38 and I feel ok. Factoring in the +30%, it might've registered ~29 on the sensitive assay, which is in the "good" range for many. Yours might've been ~33.

200 mg e2w is said to be bad because of the spike that much test at once gives, and the possible increase in estradiol as a result. Going to 200 ew means that you would compound the problem by doing the same every single week. You might actually see diminishing returns because of excess test being converted to estradiol, unless your body can actually tolerate that much. I believe the consensus was to split your 200 mg dose and do it weekly.

**Oldhighlander** · 03-23-2012, 05:58 AM

Thanks for the clarification on the E.It sounds like I am in a good range there.I did question the 200mg a week but she said give it a try and test again in a month.I have been talking to the people in her office about the E test and they are looking into the male specific from there lab.They will call me to let me know what they find out.So overall I have not really noticed any difference in how I feel yet so I guess I still have some dialing in to do.Anyone else have an opinion ?

**Oldhighlander** · 03-23-2012, 10:49 AM

Anybody else want to chime in here?I am thinking of doing the 200mg a week to see what happens and maybe to prove a point to my doc that you just can't throw more test at it and hope for the best.If my E does rise how long does it usually take to get it back down into a good range ?

**Brohim** · 03-23-2012, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Oldhighlander

Anybody else want to chime in here?I am thinking of doing the 200mg a week to see what happens and maybe to prove a point to my doc that you just can't throw more test at it and hope for the best.If my E does rise how long does it usually take to get it back down into a good range ?

Simple solution to your problem Mr. High lander. You were taking 200mg every 2 weeks and you tested at 400ng/dl because you tested at the end of two weeks.

New's flash: Test cyp half-life is only 7 day's. So of course you want to inject every 5-7 day's to keep your level's "up".

The simple solution is to inject 100mg every week or 50mg twice per week and take another blood test in 4-5 weeks.

If it were me? I would inject 50mg on Mon and 50mg on Thursday. There has been evidence that splitting your dose results in less E2 conversion. So if you are not on an AI then this would be your best bet.

**DaRoq** · 03-23-2012, 12:28 PM

While I agree that splitting the dose results in less E2 conversion, I contend that it's more about the smaller amounts than the frequency. In other words, you could probably obtain similar results by lowering the dose on the weekly injection.

What I really don't understand about twice-weekly protocols is, why is it ok to be at what would be end-of-week levels on a weekly schedule?

**Oldhighlander** · 03-23-2012, 12:44 PM

Yeah I get the less is more thing.I even mentioned my hesitation about the larger dose more frequently in an earlier post.I just convinced my doc to go weekly .She was hesitant before.So there is some progress in her education.Honestly I didn't notice anything after taking my last 200mg injection .Figured I would feel something.Now do I go against docs orders and only do 100mg weekly and see where I am at or follow orders and most likely raise my E?If my E does rise how long does it usually take to get back to a good range ?

**Oldhighlander** · 03-26-2012, 07:03 PM

So the doc's office called me today and told me that they talked to the people at the lab and they said the E test was male sensative.So that puts me at the very high end for males at 43.5.I did not take the doc's advice and go with 200mg a week.I went with the 100mg that everyone suggested.As I mention earlier I think I have some shrinkage of the boys.Any way they will get back to normal without adding another drug to my protocol?I test again in a month and have insisted on the E test again.That will put me at 5 weeks on 100 mgs a week.I don't feel a whole lot different yet and am hoping I get this dialed in soon and start to feel good.Suggestions?Answers?Comments?

**springguy45** · 03-26-2012, 08:25 PM

OldSchool I have been on TRT for YEARS. Here is what I have experienced. I started with Test Cyp injections 1mL every othter week. on about day 3 or so after the injection I felt GREAT but that would go away after about day 7 with a real low until the next injection. There are studies out there, and I wish I had them, that show the half life of this ester to be about 7 to ten days. which makes sense when I compare my results. I then went to the Patch which SUCKED! switched back to injections but went to once a week 1mL. Then I didnt have the highs and lows as with the every other week protocol. I switched to the Andro gel a long time ago and that is really a great deal for me. keeps my levels constant at around 500 or so, still to low to make the gains I want so at times I will cycle and then go back on my HRT after.

My advice to you is really keep a good track on how you feel write it down take it to the Dr. If he/she does not take that into account and adjust your dose to keep you at a good constant level then get another Dr!

Hope this helps

**Oldhighlander** · 03-27-2012, 04:19 AM

Thanks for the reply.I am not into this very long.I guess Im just a little frustrated .My doc has been very good about working with me so far.We discuss and then put it into action .Just frustrated getting dialed in.I am hoping my current protocol gets me there.Was just concerned about the slight shrinkage and my E level.Don't really want to take another drug to get he boys back to normal .I am hoping the more frequent injection will level everything out.

**Oldhighlander** · 04-10-2012, 10:50 AM

I have a question about shrinkage .I mentioned it earler in this thread that I was experiencing some.Can it fluctuate ? It seems worse shortly after I inject and seems to get better as the week goes on.Am I imagineing this or is it possible ?Right now I am on 100mgs a week.The rest of my history is in this thread.I go in for blood work this weekend and was going to talk to my doc about the shrinkage when She calls with the results .