Dr. is offering hcg restart or clomid restart

[funkymonk]

I finally found a doctor who is willing to test for estrogen (estrodiol etc) at the drop of a pin, and prescribe an AI to my otherwise perfect 100mg/wk Cyp regimen.

I asked him about hCG. He said we can drop the test and try a restart with Clomid (25-50mg ED for 25 days, 5 days off, and then bloods ~3 weeks later) or with Novarel (hCG, 1000-5000ius over 2-3x a week for a month) and see if that can get me off TRT for good.

I'm 22, so obviously it would be a plus to be off of TRT. I would miss messing with my hormones and knowing what's happening in my body, but I think it'd be foolish not to take the chance if given.

My question is, do you think a Clomid restart will work? I've been shut down (on treatment) for 1 year with no LH stimulation of any sort. With bloodwork time, the whole process will end up being about 8 weeks without test. While it could get me off of TRT, I am terrified of feeling like a shitty, hollow, empty, erectionless zombie for 2 months, all the while losing what little hard earned muscle I have. The cause of the low test was never determined, but my LH was always at near rock bottom.

Has anyone heard of any success (or failures for that matter) of restarts via Clomid or large hCG doses? Personally, I've seen maybe 1 out of every 10 cases meet with success.

[vinceproduction]

I was on 300mg of test eow for about a year. Long story short my doc realized he didn't know trt at all and wanted to pull me off cold turkey. When I asked about hcg he referred me to an endo who put me on clomid 25mg per day for 60 days. My total was something like 120 lh was around 1 and fsh the same. Then we tried hcg 2000iu 3x a week for about a month. My total was just under 300 and lh and fsh dropped lower too. I switched drs and he pulled me back to 500 x 3 a week and 2 weeks later I was up to 423 total. He wants me at around 1000 total so I'm on a low dose of test along with 100iu of hcg daily. I'm going to do a rhein's 24 urine test and blood test in about a week, so we will see where it got me. I'm 36. At your young age I would def try to see what clomid and hcg could do for a restart. I won't lie the time i was off test really sucked, but being younger you may respond better. Good luck bro and keep us updated!

[zaggahamma]

funky
i wish u would have found this doctor earlier
well being so young you would think you would want to try (especially before getting on trt) to restore...but now i see how its a tougher decision after being on trt for a year...who knows how much the trt supressed you and you prolly were low already? as you got on trt to begin with...so its really your decision...
if it were me, knowing i was low T naturally i would just roll with adding the hcg and ai but like i said thats me..
best of luck with wut u decide and hope it works out in your best interest

[bullshark99]

I did a similair restart, HcG 1000iu for 10 days and something like 22 days of Tamoxofin after that. Not to be negitive but didnt work for me, Im, however, 22 yrs older than you. I would without any reservation, at least give it a try. Understand, you WILL lose weight, muscle and energy but if you go into this with a positive attitude and except these loses, good chance they will only be short term if you are able to "restart" I really would take advantage of the opportunity and see if it works at your young age.

[SEOINAGE]

Its too bad you can't have more control over your body, it has natural ways of keeping testosterone and other hormones in a certain range. And if for whatever reason that range is always too low now it sure would be nice if you could override that switch to keep it in a more proper range. If you do decide to try and restart your own production please keep us posted on how it goes. This is something I thought if i had a better doctor he might try to do.

[zaggahamma]

Its too bad you can't have more control over your body, it has natural ways of keeping testosterone and other hormones in a certain range. And if for whatever reason that range is always too low now it sure would be nice if you could override that switch to keep it in a more proper range. If you do decide to try and restart your own production please keep us posted on how it goes. This is something I thought if i had a better doctor he might try to do.

i wish i could fly

[zaggahamma]

Its too bad you can't have more control over your body, it has natural ways of keeping testosterone and other hormones in a certain range. And if for whatever reason that range is always too low now it sure would be nice if you could override that switch to keep it in a more proper range. If you do decide to try and restart your own production please keep us posted on how it goes. This is something I thought if i had a better doctor he might try to do.

i wish i could fly

[SEOINAGE]

i wish i could fly

yes roughly equivalent.

[jamotech]

I finally found a doctor who is willing to test for estrogen (estrodiol etc) at the drop of a pin, and prescribe an AI to my otherwise perfect 100mg/wk Cyp regimen.

I asked him about hCG. He said we can drop the test and try a restart with Clomid (25-50mg ED for 25 days, 5 days off, and then bloods ~3 weeks later) or with Novarel (hCG, 1000-5000ius over 2-3x a week for a month) and see if that can get me off TRT for good.

I'm 22, so obviously it would be a plus to be off of TRT. I would miss messing with my hormones and knowing what's happening in my body, but I think it'd be foolish not to take the chance if given.

My question is, do you think a Clomid restart will work? I've been shut down (on treatment) for 1 year with no LH stimulation of any sort. With bloodwork time, the whole process will end up being about 8 weeks without test. While it could get me off of TRT, I am terrified of feeling like a shitty, hollow, empty, erectionless zombie for 2 months, all the while losing what little hard earned muscle I have. The cause of the low test was never determined, but my LH was always at near rock bottom.

Has anyone heard of any success (or failures for that matter) of restarts via Clomid or large hCG doses? Personally, I've seen maybe 1 out of every 10 cases meet with success.

I have read some success stories, id be curious to see your results, we all love a good guinea pig!

[kelkel]

Curious. With your low LH/FSH did you ever have an MRI to rule out pituitary issues?

[Lemonada8]

I would go with Clomid over the HCG restart.


However, 25 days is a pretty short time. Its a good dose however but IMO kinda short.

Its usually ran for 6+ months for fertility issues..

Ask about a clomiphene stimulation test (where u take 100mg ED for a week then retest levels to see if there are any functional issues other than lack of test)

[sparverius]

Have you read Nelson Vergel's "Testosterone: a man's guide"? In it he explains a protocol from a Dr Scalley which uses HCG first, then Clomid and Tamoxifen. The HCG restarts the gonads and the Clomid turns the HPTA back on. The protocol takes about a month. That's a lot less than the 6 months I was on Clomid and AI. It didn't work for me and a year later I'm still not back to where I was fitness wise. But I'm 30 years older than you and was on TRT for 6 years.

If you are going to restart the sooner you do it the better. It may be miserable but even if it does not work at least you'll have tried.

[Vettester]

OP, I would love to hear a success story with this. Won't BS you here, I would imagine the odds are not leaning in your favor after 1 year, but I don't think the deck is completely stacked against you either. Like asked above, I would just clarify that you don't have any disorders in the pituitary that would factor into this. If not, all you can do is try, try, try!

Keep us posted!

[funkymonk]

After reading around some more, I think I found maybe 1 "ok" outcome and over 10 bad outcomes of people who have tried a clomid restart.

Here are my thoughts on the possible outcomes:

1) I try a restart, it fails, I get back on TRT. Downside: feeling like sh!t for 2+ months, settling back into a TRT regimen that's taken forever to get right so far.2
2) I try a restart, it succeeds, I end up with T levels comparable to TRT. I find this unlikely to happen from all that I've read. My TRT puts me between 450-800 total serum depending on proximity to injection day.
3) I try a restart, it succeeds, I end up with "Average" T levels.
4) I try a restart, it succeeds, I end up with my old levels of 300ish (low).

Even in the case of a successful restart, I figure I will end up on TRT sooner or later (age 35, 40, 45+).

My dr. said he didn't like hCG simultaneously with test since it'd give me way high T. I think I'll ask him about a small dose of hCG (IE: 250iu 2x a week) and test throttled back from 100mg as necessary (IE: to 80mg/wk).

Is it wrong of me to see no problem with being on TRT for life, fertility issues aside? I'll be honest, I've can't recall a time (in my life) I've felt better than in the last ~6 months when my TRT regimen has been on lock. Maybe I'm young and short-sided, but if I can get him to prescribe a reasonable amount of hcg for longterm use (to keep the balls swinging and fertile), I don't particularly see a problem besides being tied to a medicine for life (inconvenience, travel, insurance)

Ask about a clomiphene stimulation test (where u take 100mg ED for a week then retest levels to see if there are any functional issues other than lack of test)

I've read a bit about it. I'll look into it more and consider it.

Curious. With your low LH/FSH did you ever have an MRI to rule out pituitary issues?

Yes. Pituitary came back clear. Prolactin is at a perfectly reasonable level too (these 2 rule out prolactinoma).

I'll have results for my thyroid back in 2 weeks. In the past, they've only ever tested TSH.

[Noles12]

Though i am not in your situation i think i would try for restarting.

The 2 months of feeling down again sounds terrible, but to possibly cut out 10 to 15 years of injections and avoiding fertility risks, i think i would try.

This success rate doesnt seem too high but i base it off of much older individuals so i would be curious to see how a 22 year olds body responds. I actually have been talking to my brother about this recently. He is in his 20s as well with test levels in the very bottom of the range. Nothing has come back with any reason for them to be low. He said he wants to feel better and i told him he needs to find a doctor willing to try HCG or something else for possibly raising his levels. His case may not be as bad as yours due to the fact he is currently on nothing. So i feel the worst that happens in his case is it does not work and then he starts with TRT.

I just feel at that age i would want to try every option available

[zaggahamma]

After reading around some more, I think I found maybe 1 "ok" outcome and over 10 bad outcomes of people who have tried a clomid restart.

Here are my thoughts on the possible outcomes:

1) I try a restart, it fails, I get back on TRT. Downside: feeling like sh!t for 2+ months, settling back into a TRT regimen that's taken forever to get right so far.2
2) I try a restart, it succeeds, I end up with T levels comparable to TRT. I find this unlikely to happen from all that I've read. My TRT puts me between 450-800 total serum depending on proximity to injection day.
3) I try a restart, it succeeds, I end up with "Average" T levels.
4) I try a restart, it succeeds, I end up with my old levels of 300ish (low).

Even in the case of a successful restart, I figure I will end up on TRT sooner or later (age 35, 40, 45+).

My dr. said he didn't like hCG simultaneously with test since it'd give me way high T. I think I'll ask him about a small dose of hCG (IE: 250iu 2x a week) and test throttled back from 100mg as necessary (IE: to 80mg/wk).

Is it wrong of me to see no problem with being on TRT for life, fertility issues aside? I'll be honest, I've can't recall a time (in my life) I've felt better than in the last ~6 months when my TRT regimen has been on lock. Maybe I'm young and short-sided, but if I can get him to prescribe a reasonable amount of hcg for longterm use (to keep the balls swinging and fertile), I don't particularly see a problem besides being tied to a medicine for life (inconvenience, travel, insurance)



I've read a bit about it. I'll look into it more and consider it.



Yes. Pituitary came back clear. Prolactin is at a perfectly reasonable level too (these 2 rule out prolactinoma).

I'll have results for my thyroid back in 2 weeks. In the past, they've only ever tested TSH.

way to be patient and do your research bro

wish you all the continued courage to make your decision

[Flier]

After reading around some more, I think I found maybe 1 "ok" outcome and over 10 bad outcomes of people who have tried a clomid restart.

Here are my thoughts on the possible outcomes:

1) I try a restart, it fails, I get back on TRT. Downside: feeling like sh!t for 2+ months, settling back into a TRT regimen that's taken forever to get right so far.2
2) I try a restart, it succeeds, I end up with T levels comparable to TRT. I find this unlikely to happen from all that I've read. My TRT puts me between 450-800 total serum depending on proximity to injection day.
3) I try a restart, it succeeds, I end up with "Average" T levels.
4) I try a restart, it succeeds, I end up with my old levels of 300ish (low).

Even in the case of a successful restart, I figure I will end up on TRT sooner or later (age 35, 40, 45+).

My dr. said he didn't like hCG simultaneously with test since it'd give me way high T. I think I'll ask him about a small dose of hCG (IE: 250iu 2x a week) and test throttled back from 100mg as necessary (IE: to 80mg/wk).

Is it wrong of me to see no problem with being on TRT for life, fertility issues aside? I'll be honest, I've can't recall a time (in my life) I've felt better than in the last ~6 months when my TRT regimen has been on lock. Maybe I'm young and short-sided, but if I can get him to prescribe a reasonable amount of hcg for longterm use (to keep the balls swinging and fertile), I don't particularly see a problem besides being tied to a medicine for life (inconvenience, travel, insurance)l

U got some good positive realistic advise here.
Without a doubt u need to try restart! But give yourself a year rather than 2 months.
You will loose muscle and gain BF. But you are prepared for that. And you have bigger goals than bodyimage right now anyway.
In bold....is the main reason I have not jumped on TRT and are still in restart mode. Currently on 60mg/ED Tore for a few months. Tore after 4 weeks doubled my test. Will do another BW in 1 week.
Jumping on TRT is a huge decision, it´s for life. U realize what "for life" means? It means, you better be in a position (geographically, financially, mentally etc) to be pinning 50 years from now, when you are 70.
Your freedom will be restricted for life, as you no longer only need to travel with your toothbrush and passport, but your needles and gear as well.
I am a "bird", I don´t know where I will be living next year (not even which continent), or how much money I will be making. I love this "freedom". But on TRT, I will always have a certain "tie down".
Good news to this; TRT will become easier as technology advances. My Endo told me yesterday, a TRT "Pill" is under trials, and will probably be released this year. How about a surgically inserted time-release Testosterone capsule, to be filled once per year? Whatever it is, TRT will only become easier.
If I do TRT, I will definitely do Nebido for now, pinned every 10-12 weeks.
I will start HGH next week, 2-3iu/day pending on BW, for 1 year before I decide on TRT, to see if this "magic" hormone can restore some of my faltering Pituitary function.
There are some replies here of succeeding or not. Success is defined by you, and is not black and white. You will definitely regain some natural production, question is how much, and if you can live with it.

[DaRoq]

+1 for trying the Clomid restart.

I actually went off TRT after reading these articles on Clomiphene treatment:

Clomiphene citrate and testosterone gel repla***ent therapy for male hypogonadism: efficacy and treatment cost.
Outcomes of clomiphene citrate treatment in young hypogonadal men.
Clomiphene citrate effects on testosterone/estrogen ratio in male hypogonadism.
How Clomid Works in Men

The problem was that I'm older (42) and it would've been less guaranteed than TRT. I also think that these articles were focusing on continued treatment rather than a "restart", so the subjects might have to continue indefinitely. I would actually be ok with that since I'm on a daily ritual of applying Androgel anyway. I was off TRT for 8 weeks total and actually got used to it. To combat any libido/erectile issues, I used an oral testosterone supplement containing Fenugreek, Tongkat Ali, Zinc, Arginine Alpha-Ketoglutarate, etc., plus 5g l-arginine powder every day.

For you, I think a Clomid restart is a no-brainer. Have your LH & FSH baselined, do the one week Clomiphene Stimulation Test, then get re-tested. A doubling of LH and a 20 to 50% increase in FSH is indicative of an intact hypothalamic-pituitary response(1), which means you might still be able to make your own test with a little help if your testis are still functional. If they are, then I believe hCG would also work if the pituitary isn't working properly to increase LH/FSH levels even with help

(1) AACE Medical Guidelines for Clinical Practice for the Evaluation and Treatment of Hypogonadism in Adult Male Patients - 2002 Update

[mkretz]

first off, gl man......and not to hijack the thread but im in the same boat kinda....ive been on trt for a couple years now (only 23) had tried a restart a few times with clomid and one time actually got my levls to like 300 but teh next tim only like 240, i was also taking DAA, i think i did 25-50 mgs but only for a month or 2...since then ive beenon 100mg test cyp for 6-8 months, do u think its too late to try a restart again ? and would u advise clomid againbut just longer and add hcg? again, sorry op for the hijack but im in the same position and wonder what to do...........injecting for the rest of my life honestly doesnt really boter me its just the health consequences that i am afraid of

[Nestor Otto Sewell]

Please share your final choice here. It will be interesting to see results if you do the restart.

[bp2000]

first off, gl man......and not to hijack the thread but im in the same boat kinda....ive been on trt for a couple years now (only 23) had tried a restart a few times with clomid and one time actually got my levls to like 300 but teh next tim only like 240, i was also taking DAA, i think i did 25-50 mgs but only for a month or 2...since then ive beenon 100mg test cyp for 6-8 months, do u think its too late to try a restart again ? and would u advise clomid againbut just longer and add hcg? again, sorry op for the hijack but im in the same position and wonder what to do...........injecting for the rest of my life honestly doesnt really boter me its just the health consequences that i am afraid of

post a new thread to get help

[bp2000]

OP since you were shutdown for a year it will take longer to re-start your HPTA. A good protocol would be to combine HCG and clomid. If you dig through the HRT section there are guys who did exactly that. Research username ANIMAL he did HCG/Clomid restart and it took him 3 times but got his hpta to start working again. Good luck