HRT Question

[Mark5]

This might be a simple question/answer but it's something I wasn't for sure about. I tried searching and reading through stickies for a specific answer but didn't find any so here goes.

Let's say a man is on TRT and his total test level is 1000 ng/dl with his normal dose. Obviously supplementation of more test would cause an increase in this number, but my question is, do non-testosterone compounds cause an added increase in the levels of total or free test on a bloodwork panel? For example, for whatever reason if the TRT man chose to supplement his normal dose with an oral compound like var or winstrol , would the bloodwork levels show anything other than normal?

I am not on TRT nor am I a candidate, but I was just thinking about guys who are that choose to supplement their test with other things and what effects there would be. Just trying to learn!

[HRTstudent]

it certainly wouldn't cause testosterone levels to increase. I could see the potential that the T levels would decrease via increased aromatization though.

many of tthese oral androgens will dramatically effect liver functions however. lowered HDL would also occur.

[HRTstudent]

it certainly wouldn't cause testosterone levels to increase. I could see the potential that the T levels would decrease via increased aromatization though.

many of tthese oral androgens will dramatically effect liver functions however. lowered HDL would also occur.

[zaggahamma]

just hypothetically right?

[Mark5]

just hypothetically right?

Right, I would never advocate or encourage the use of illegal drugs.

[zaggahamma]

all i know is when i was on deca and test (i believe 300 test and 200 deca or 150 deca (mg's)) my test level was like 2,222 probably around a week after injection cant really say which compound was responsible for the level

[Vettester]

Yes, various anabolics like winstrol and proviron will lower your SHBG level, which in turn will increase your free testosterone . They won't have any effect on increasing the total serum level though, so your 1,000ng/ml level would in essence stay the same, regardless of adding other anabolic medications, just as long as your exogenous dosage remains the same.

[Vettester]

all i know is when i was on deca and test (i believe 300 test and 200 deca or 150 deca (mg's)) my test level was like 2,222 probably around a week after injection cant really say which compound was responsible for the level

It was only the testosterone . The Nor 19 deca wouldn't reflect on the testosterone serum level.

[zaggahamma]

It was only the testosterone. The Nor 19 deca wouldn't reflect on the testosterone serum level.

thanks for clarifying vette...so to help the op as someone above stated, it wont decrease test level on bloodwork either? or will it? i know ppl say to crash your test level to run deca and then test but how does that apply when on exo test?

[Vettester]

thanks for clarifying vette...so to help the op as someone above stated, it wont decrease test level on bloodwork either? or will it? i know ppl say to crash your test level to run deca and then test but how does that apply when on exo test?

Jp, it won't effect the serum level if you are taking exogenous test, like cyp. However, it will indeed shutdown the hpta in a serious way, thus effecting the endogenous production.

[zaggahamma]

Ok...what i mean if I wasn't running the deca like i stated in above post just the 300 of test would my levels more likely have been higher lower or not affected

[Vettester]

Ok...what i mean if I wasn't running the deca like i stated in above post just the 300 of test would my levels more likely have been higher lower or not affected

Sorry Jp, I'm getting a little confused, but it could be that I'm having to hit and run from my phone today. Anyways, without deca , the test serum level will be relevant to the amount of cyp being administered. There won't be any natural production (unless hcg is in the pic), as the cyp would ensure the hpta to be suppressed. Stop the cyp and serum levels will spiral down.

Is this the info you are seeking, or am I missing the boat?

[zaggahamma]

Not exactly...
I know what YOU'RE saying ....
What im asking is: patient a injects 300mg of cyp and yields bloodwork reading total T 2000ng/dl...how would patient a's total T respond if all factors r same except he administers 200mg of deca

[Vettester]

Not exactly...
I know what YOU'RE saying ....
What im asking is: patient a injects 300mg of cyp and yields bloodwork reading total T 2000ng/dl...how would patient a's total T respond if all factors r same except he administers 200mg of deca

OK, a patient's serum score is 2,000ng/ml. He then adds 200mg of deca and retests ... Serum score still = 2,000ng/ml. Nothing would change to effect the serum score unless that patient changes his cyp dosage.

[zaggahamma]

Interesting so deca doesn't increase nor decrease test levels whilst on a exo protocol.....how about no cyp and dealing with ones natty levels and administration of deca

[Vettester]

Interesting so deca doesn't increase nor decrease test levels whilst on a exo protocol.....how about no cyp and dealing with ones natty levels and administration of deca

Yeah, that's a whole different creature. Let's say your natty is 600ng/ml, and you take NO exogenous test ... Just pure natty. Add 200mg of deca by itself, nothing else. That 600ng/ml will come crashing soon enough, as deca by itself will be highly suppressive on the HPTA.

But to confirm, deca won't mitigate exogenous test on its ability to function in the body. Basically, it is neither an agonist or antagonist to bio identical testosterone itself. It just simply suppresses the HPTA, which then effects the LH to signal the testicles for more endogenous production.

[JD250]

Deca is extremely suppressive to natural test production, if i'm not mistaken a single 100mg dose of deca will shut down natural production 100% and take nearly a month to return to baseline...or some such nonsense.

Vette....what about the natural production induced by hcg ? I wonder if using deca and HCG at the same time is counter productive.....just thinking outloud.

[jamotech]

nadrolone is naturally occurring in the body at very low levels, exogenous nandrolone shuts down natural test production, exogenous test shuts down natural test production in the same way. Id like to know what creates natural production of nandrolone in the body, and does that also shut down while on deca ,... or even test solo?

[Vettester]

Deca is extremely suppressive to natural test production, if i'm not mistaken a single 100mg dose of deca will shut down natural production 100% and take nearly a month to return to baseline...or some such nonsense.

Vette....what about the natural production induced by hcg? I wonder if using deca and HCG at the same time is counter productive.....just thinking outloud.

I'll do my best on the phone ... Deca should have no effect on hcg induced endogenous test. Deca only suppresses the hpta from producing LH, but it won't interfere with the actual LH analog coming from hcg. The testes will respond to LH regardless if deca is there or not. It's just a matter of getting LH to the testes, which doesn't happen when the hpta is shutdown.

HCG should be highly considered when any deca or Nor19 compounds are being administered.

[JD250]

Makes perfect sense, thanks man.