Does the amount of bodyfat have any significance WHERE, or HOW a person injects T?

[killergoalie]

This may be a stupid, or naive question, but I was just wondering if the amount of bodyfat...esp if it's around the stomach, has any significance, or plays any role whatsoever, where or how a person on TRT/HRT injects their testosterone ?

I'm speaking mainly of Sub-Q versus IM...and primarily using the belly/stomach as the main injection site for SubQ injections.

I've read dozens of stories, articles, reports, feedback etc on both methods. How both methods have their pros & cons. How they both have their admirers and detractors etc. I also realize that it's a matter of personal preference. And to be honest, sometimes it feels as if there is TOO much information, or maybe just too many opinions to come up with an actual "correct" answer to some questions. It seems as if there are always conflicting reports from users of both methods, of all body types.

Sometimes it seems more complicated than it has to be, or than it seems.

But to simplify things, it seems as if Sub-Q injections are the new wave, and seemingly allow for smaller, more frequent doses, thus giving a more steady, balanced, non rollercoaster ride effect with Testosterone Levels . But does having more bodyfat mean it takes longer for the Test (Test-Cyp to be exact) to be absorbed, or get to where it's the most effective, and thus IM injections would be better for someone who is quite overweight?

Maybe I haven't read enough information, or enough examples, or feedback from those in similar situations. Or perhaps I'm putting too much thought into all this, and should just do whatever feels right. I just want as much information that I can get...without having to read "long winded" sometimes confusing, lengthy articles when a simple "yes" or "no" would suffice, so I can make the best decision possible.

I guess though the bottom line is a person won't know until they try. They just have to decide, and figure out what works best on/for them. I just don't feel like going through a bunch of trial & error experiments on myself. I'd rather get it "right" the first time. But I guess that's just wishful thinking, and most likely will have to be a self serving guinea pig.

I apologize again if this is a stupid question/thread.

[PetrX]

No it doesn't ..but the best absorbtion for sub q shots is the ab area..absorbs faster..

[steroid.com 1]

Not a stupid question and many of your observations are on spot.

We're talking medical protocols so there is NEVER going to be "one right way" to do things...Doc's have been arguing for years on many medical issues and treatments so it's not going to be any different here.

There's been almost no studies done on SubQ injections versus IM so you're not going to get an accurate answer but you will get educated responses.

I think we all metabolize differently and fat is just one part of that equation. But you hit the nail on the head; each man has to test on his own and make some subjective decisions based on how he feels, what his BW says and input from his "qualified" medical practitionare.

No apologies man and glade to see you participating on our forum here. It's some of the best guys I've gotten to know and proud to be a member of this community!

[steroid.com 1]

No it doesn't ..but the best absorbtion for sub q shots is the ab area..absorbs faster..

Interesting...where did you learn this?

[PetrX]

Interesting...where did you learn this?

Same reason why drs say the best area to inject insulin is the ab area as it absorbs the fastest..I notice that when I inject in the ab area compared to deltoids , triceps, buttocks, ect, it lowers my sugars much faster. If and when I switch to injections for test, my first target with be with sub q injections in the abs.

[killergoalie]

Thanks everyone for your very helpful replies.

It's nice to have a place where we can discuss this.

[steroid.com 1]

Same reason why drs say the best area to inject insulin is the ab area as it absorbs the fastest..I notice that when I inject in the ab area compared to deltoids , triceps, buttocks, ect, it lowers my sugars much faster. If and when I switch to injections for test, my first target with be with sub q injections in the abs.

Understand your rational but Testosterone with long esters will metabolize entirely different then insulin .

The point of injecting SubQ with Testosterone is that absorption seems to be a bit slower and more consistent than IM therefore lower serum spikes and better control over E2...at least that's the theory.

There needs to be more clinical studies to prove a lot of this but conventional thinking seems to prove it out.

[PetrX]

Understand your rational but Testosterone with long esters will metabolize entirely different then insulin .

The point of injecting SubQ with Testosterone is that absorption seems to be a bit slower and more consistent than IM therefore lower serum spikes and better control over E2...at least that's the theory.

There needs to be more clinical studies to prove a lot of this but conventional thinking seems to prove it out.

Like my proffesors and Drs I work with tell me, this is not a study with great urgency nor is it in high demand therefore they just try to use an educated guess. Which is a shame, this might actually be my thesis for my PHD lol. Hospitals, Drs , ect won't be looking into the differences between IM and Sub Q anytime soon it sounds like so we might have to make our own hypothesis lol.

[JD250]

. Hospitals, Drs , ect won't be looking into the differences between IM and Sub Q anytime soon it sounds like so we might have to make our own hypothesis lol.

I believe there is a small "movement" among board members here to do our own "in house" study on sub Q injections .......I'll be joining that study as soon as I run out of Deca and return to a more normal protocol, I'm trying small subQ eod for a while without an AI and report my BW after a couple months

[killergoalie]

If a person has high E2 levels (above the highest end of the reference range), and is considering going to Sub-Q Test injections, which seem to control E2 levels better than IM injections according to a lot of reports, should they first get their E2 levels down to a reasonable level with an A.I. before they consider, or begin using Sub-Q as their method to inject their testosterone ?

Just thinking that it might take quite a while to lower their E2 levels if they don't use an A.I. and just rely on them going down "naturally" by going the "more steady" Sub-Q route. Thus they might be wasting a lot of that extra testosterone since a lot of it may still be converting to Estrogen because of aromatization since their E2 levels haven't gone done enough yet.

[JD250]

^^ I would take an AI for a week or 2 only, then I would stop taking it when I started my sub q protocol........it doesn't take long to knock down e2 levels. Blood work is the answer, anything else is speculation.

[killergoalie]

Thanks, JD.

[steroid.com 1]

If a person has high E2 levels (above the highest end of the reference range), and is considering going to Sub-Q Test injections, which seem to control E2 levels better than IM injections according to a lot of reports, should they first get their E2 levels down to a reasonable level with an A.I. before they consider, or begin using Sub-Q as their method to inject their testosterone ?

Just thinking that it might take quite a while to lower their E2 levels if they don't use an A.I. and just rely on them going down "naturally" by going the "more steady" Sub-Q route. Thus they might be wasting a lot of that extra testosterone since a lot of it may still be converting to Estrogen because of aromatization since their E2 levels haven't gone done enough yet.

There's not enough evidence that shows that SubQ Testosterone injections will have the same kind of E2 management control as an AI.

Slower absorption over time leveling the "zig zag" of serum levels will go to hinder E2 conversion but personally I doubt it can have the type of impact an AI can have.

Once E2 levels are in an acceptable range one may not need to take as much of an AI injecting SubQ but I haven't seen anything that would suggest that a man who needed an AI previously could walk away from it simply by injecting SubQ.

[killergoalie]

Thanks also, gdevine.

As always, I've received a lot of helpful information, and suggestions here.

[JD250]

Great advice G, I assumed an awful lot with my short post. I'm assuming you are breaking your sub q shots into smaller doses 3 times a week, that's the subject of much discussion lately and I should NOT have assumed that, you did mention it in your first post but never said that you intended to do that. It's what was on my mind at the time. If you're merely switching from IM to SQ then there will likely be little difference and like G stated, you will likely still need an AI. The reason SQ is more desireable for the more frequent smaller doses is because it's easy, painless and won't be scarring muscle tissue 3 times a week. It's the frequency and size of dose that has the effect on e2 .......not the location of the injection ie....SQ versus IM . My apologies for assuming so much, that's a dangerous thing to do when giving advice like this, I'll pay closer attention.

[killergoalie]

Good post, JD, and yeah, that was great advice by G.

One of the other reasons I'm considering Sub-Q injections is that they're reportedly less painful than IM, not to mention the fact that I have a fairly big belly, so until I can lose some weight, there is plenty of area to inject.

I've only had one injection of 150 mg so far, which was nearly 3 weeks, ago, and I'm scheduled to have my next shot this Thursday. But I want, and NEED to shorten the time period between injections, which is why I'm doing so much research. I want to make the most educated decision that I can.

I'm hoping to get a prescription for an A.I. from my Dr. this Thursday to help lower my E2 level, and then I hope to start getting more frequent injections, which hopefully can be self injected.

I will discuss this with my Dr., but I'm thinking between 80-100 mg per week, broken down to 40-50 mg every 3.5 days. I loved the feeling it gave me when I first got the injection, so hopefully I can still experience that at those lower levels. Even at a body weight of 325 lbs.

Of course my main objective is to get as healthy as I possibly can. Constantly feeling like crap, and not having any desire, or motivation, OR energy to workout sucks!!

[JD250]

Yep, keep communicating and working with your doctor until you are both on the same page with TRT......you first need to get him to understand half life of Testosterone and give you a minimum of 1 injection every week........keep us posted with your progress.

[killergoalie]

Will do, JD.

[ecdysone]

But to simplify things, it seems as if Sub-Q injections are the new wave, .

Just as a matter of interest, guys have been doing SQ for at least 7 years that I know of, maybe more - so it's been around for quite some time. I don't think most "mainstream" docs are tuned in much to it, so you will still probably find some resistance there.

[killergoalie]

Good point ecdysone.

I know exactly what you mean. It happens in many areas. As I mentioned, I'm a type 2 diabetic, and even so called experts in that field, or in the nutrition aspect seem to be outdated in certain areas. They still abide by the "food pyramid" and still think that 13-15 servings of breads & grains per day is ideal. YEAH RIGHT, way to spike your glucose levels into orbit!!

Anyway, I might just have to go to self injections. I just hope I can convince my Dr. to keep renewing my prescription, and to give me one for an A.I.

[steroid.com 1]

Great advice G, I assumed an awful lot with my short post. I'm assuming you are breaking your sub q shots into smaller doses 3 times a week, that's the subject of much discussion lately and I should NOT have assumed that, you did mention it in your first post but never said that you intended to do that. It's what was on my mind at the time. If you're merely switching from IM to SQ then there will likely be little difference and like G stated, you will likely still need an AI. The reason SQ is more desireable for the more frequent smaller doses is because it's easy, painless and won't be scarring muscle tissue 3 times a week. It's the frequency and size of dose that has the effect on e2 .......not the location of the injection ie....SQ versus IM . My apologies for assuming so much, that's a dangerous thing to do when giving advice like this, I'll pay closer attention.

100% accurate!

[steroid.com 1]

Just as a matter of interest, guys have been doing SQ for at least 7 years that I know of, maybe more - so it's been around for quite some time. I don't think most "mainstream" docs are tuned in much to it, so you will still probably find some resistance there.

Even resistance with knowledgeable TRT Physicians...there's just no sound research or studies on the effect. That said, Docs like Shippen have been prescribing it for some time with excellent results.