Is TRT cheating?

[Oldhighlander]

Is TRT cheating in your opinion?I have been on TRT since last september and still not totally dialed in yet but getting there.I compete in the scottish highland games and have done 2 comps so far this year.The first in mid march and the last one yesterday.The first one I did well but nothing out of the ordinary.The second one I did extremely well and set one lifetime personel best and was very very close to setting a second.I am 54 and have been competing for 16 years so to hit PB's at this time in my competitive life is few and far between.I have been training hard and practicing hard to get ready for the world championships so what made the difference?Training?TRT?Training and TRT?
There was a raging debate on one of the highland games message boards about TRT.Some people were totally against it and others didn't care one way or the other saying it was a personel choice for health reasons and I am not getting in the way of someones health.Still others said that the levels you are at with TRT aren't performance enhancing.The body that runs the world championship says that as long as it is doctor prescribed for health it is ok.So what do all of you say?I must admit I did have a feeling of guilt after performing so well.

[Brohim]

It doesn't matter as long as the head hauncho say's its cool. With that said its obviously an advantage to a guy like yourself who is older and has levels of an 18yo possibly higher. Test gives more strength and stamina. But if your competeing against younger guy's (no age bracket's) I don't see much of an advantage.

[flatscat]

^^^this

[Oldhighlander]

Sometimes it's age brackets and sometimes not.I guess I am not sure what the difference is,TRT or the hard work I have put in.Or a little of both.I have been preety successful in the games over the years and I still probably would be with TRT or not.I must admit that I am not feeling much different now from when I first started TRT.I have read that some of the other guys here have had that AHHHAAA moment that it's working.I still haven't got there.My T levels have been better then before but my E has been real high right along with my T increases.I just swithched to twice a week injections and have been taking supplements to lower my E.I go in for blood work soon so I should know more then.I guess it is all the pounding into your head over the years that drugs equal cheating.When I was much younger I took that stance.Now that I am older I really don't care what people do.Drugs are all over sports,make it legal and monitor it so athletes stay healthy.But that probably won't work either because someone is always looking for an advantage.

[Simon1972]

of course its cheating. but when did you think life was fair?

[GFA]

Technically I would say yes it gives you an unfair advantage since like you said you are breaking PRs at 54. Not to mention many of the people on this board seem to blast which is no different than just doing a full blown cycle.

Since starting TRT I blew past my max bench and quickly approaching my new goal of 315. I was never strong and lifted consistently in the past. Now it seems I can get real gains by staying consistent in the gym and using just 100mg test a week.

But who cares really? If its not illegal to use in your competition then go ahead and use your test, keep quiet about your TRT, and kill it

[dooie]

Cheating for what? It is if u don't have low test and have a doc that prescribes it, but for most ppl on it, it is a life saver!

[SEOINAGE]

That is awesome that if it is doctor prescribed they allow it. Most powerlifting feds don't, and other sports don't. I agree on the stance that it should all be legal since it already happens so heavily.

[Oldhighlander]

Thanks for the replies guys.I have never done a cycle or blast or cruise in my life.I am new to all of this.Ironically I read about TRT on the highland games message board.One guy asked if it was ok to compete because he was on it and it kinda started a shit storm on the board.A lot didn't care,some where indifferent,and others wanted to tar and feather him.After some heated disscussion the powers that be said it was cool if prescribed by a doctor.After he had the huge balls to come out a few others bravely did too.When I read there symptoms I said hey thats me too.Got tested and here I am.I had a twinge of guilt over this after the comp and just wanted some opinions.I have kept my therapy on the down low but I did contact the brave souls who where open about it to information gather and they encouraged me.I guess I could look at it like It is a legal advantage that the others just haven't taken advantage of so bad on them.Or maybe they have and I just flat kicked there asses!

[bass]

not cheating if prescribed by a doctor, TRT is no different than taking medication for high blood pressure, diabetes, or any other medical condition. you should feel proud for taking care of your health!

[Oldhighlander]

Bass the powers that be pretty much said the same thing you said about it.I am proud that I am taking care of my health.Since starting TRT I am way more pro active with my health and in talking to my doctor.I have cleaned up my diet in a big way and have seen huge results in a big weight loss.I am back to hard heavy training and competing again.TRT and this board have been a big influence on me to look at myself closer and take action on things I don't like.I may be stopping some meds that I take because of the changes I have made.This whole TRT experience has been a big plus in my life.I am not toatally dialed in yet but I am close.Can't wait to see how I progress in the way I look,feel,and get stronger.

[bass]

i started working out and dieting when i was 49, i am 52 now and been on TRT a little over a year. always proud to share my before and after,

[SEOINAGE]

Thanks for the replies guys.I have never done a cycle or blast or cruise in my life.I am new to all of this.Ironically I read about TRT on the highland games message board.One guy asked if it was ok to compete because he was on it and it kinda started a shit storm on the board.A lot didn't care,some where indifferent,and others wanted to tar and feather him.After some heated disscussion the powers that be said it was cool if prescribed by a doctor.After he had the huge balls to come out a few others bravely did too.When I read there symptoms I said hey thats me too.Got tested and here I am.I had a twinge of guilt over this after the comp and just wanted some opinions.I have kept my therapy on the down low but I did contact the brave souls who where open about it to information gather and they encouraged me.I guess I could look at it like It is a legal advantage that the others just haven't taken advantage of so bad on them.Or maybe they have and I just flat kicked there asses!

You know it is pretty amazing how strong you can get even with low testosterone . But the extra fat that comes as a consequence sucks. I'm hoping to keep making progress and get healthier as well. I would like to get involved in strongman and highland games one day, but don't imagine that is easy where I live without a lot of travel.

[Oldhighlander]

Bass nice pics.Wish I had a before shot to share but I don't.Not sure how much muscle I put on or if it was just hidden under fat but I look much different then when I started all this.Haven't gained a lot of strength either but there is some improvement.I have changed my training a little bit to gear it more towards throwing so the big improvement is in my box jump.Up to 30" now at 6'4" and 290 LBS and 54 years old.And yes the weights have gone up to but not what I would call a big jump.I do expect some more improvement when I am totally dialed in.
Seoinage where do you live?There are games everywhere.

[SEOINAGE]

western colorado

[Oldhighlander]

There are games out there for sure.Highlands ranch,Estes park,Elizabeth,Grand junction.Check out rocky mountain scottish athletes website. http://www.rmsa.org/ Plus there are games in surrounding states.

[zaggahamma]

i think of cheating as a crime

and if there is no victim there is no crime

you would have to impead your opponents performance to cheat, imo..not enhance yours

this bs that we have in the states where leagues drug test is crap, imo...leave ppl and their blood alone

[Babyslim]

No, it's not cheating at all. As long as a person isn't in supraphysiological ranges(That's my conservative response, I don't care if people run cycles either). I believe iv'e had low T since i was 17 or earlier. I'm 25 now and I feel like I was robbed of part of my life. Depression, no energy, low sex drive, low drive in life, under developed physically, insomnia, anxiety, the list goes on... Why on earth would fixing a health problem that can destroy your current and future life be cheating? By that logic, someone who blows out their ACL shouldn't have it fixed with surgery... or another with a metal hip... Were not talking about making the million dollar man here, just healthy NORMAL people.

[DanMan250]

When on TRT you can maintain your T levels at the high end of the normal range around the clock, which gives you a big advantage over your opponents not on TRT because their T levels will naturally drop very low at times due to many factors such as hard training, emotional stress, lack of sleep etc. These factors don't affect the T levels of someone on TRT. This is one of the reasons I like TRT so much. I can have like 4 or 5 hours sleep and I know that my T levels will still be high regardless. When it comes to hard physical training, guys not on TRT can have their T levels plummet to castration levels. This never happens to guys on TRT so there is no question that you have an unfair advantage.

[Simon1972]

lance armstrong had one testicle removed due to cancer and i believe he is on TRT ( he'd have to be shouldnt he??)- won tour de france after that....nobody accused him of cheating- nor should they.

[t-gunz]

of course its cheating. but when did you think life was fair?

well that is the best post ive seen around here in a long time

so true

[Honkey_Kong]

of course its cheating. but when did you think life was fair?

It's not cheating, it's leveling the playing field. It's not like he's running a gram of gear a week, he's running a TRT dose.

[Babyslim]

When on TRT you can maintain your T levels at the high end of the normal range around the clock, which gives you a big advantage over your opponents not on TRT because their T levels will naturally drop very low at times due to many factors such as hard training, emotional stress, lack of sleep etc. These factors don't affect the T levels of someone on TRT. This is one of the reasons I like TRT so much. I can have like 4 or 5 hours sleep and I know that my T levels will still be high regardless. When it comes to hard physical training, guys not on TRT can have their T levels plummet to castration levels. This never happens to guys on TRT so there is no question that you have an unfair advantage.

If a person on TRT was only sleeping 4-5 hours a night for that reason he would be at a great DISADVANTAGE. Sure, you may have more energy or sense of well being than you normally would when sleep deprived. But there is a lot more to sleep than just rebounding test levels. Someone please correct me if im wrong, but I don't think you would benefit but a small percentage from level serum test levels without proper sleep. Not only is sleep is extremely important for anabolic functions of building and maintaining muscle, it's critical for everything else in your body. And training hard usually raises test levels...

[Simon1972]

It's not cheating, it's leveling the playing field. It's not like he's running a gram of gear a week, he's running a TRT dose.

thats my point...i was being facitious....if taking a low dose T is cheating,taking creatine is also cheating- its made in a lab, you cant naturally produce the amount of creatine most guys take as a supplement.

this kind of talk about cheating is the reason why steroids are condemned and not adequately supervised or even considered by doctors. steroids have a stigma as being a heavy drug . All because the Olympic commision wants people to play fair...so the sh!t rolls down into the community and every playing field in the western world.

how many sick frail old men die in pain with poor health, barely able to get out of bed without cracking a hip, all because it never crosses the mind of a doctor to prescribe any aged man test shots, while he is young enough to maintain peak health into old age.
all i know is im going to get juicing when i hit my 50's, and maintain 18 year old levels until the day i die. no way in the world im want to die a frail old man with no muscle tone crying myself to sleep because i couldnt walk fast enough to make it in time to the toilet. TRT is the way to go gentlemen!

if cheating means i die older and healthier with all my faculties---call me a cheater! !!

[SEOINAGE]

There are games out there for sure.Highlands ranch,Estes park,Elizabeth,Grand junction.Check out rocky mountain scottish athletes website. http://www.rmsa.org/ Plus there are games in surrounding states.

Thanks, looks like there is a lot of stuff going on.

[DanMan250]

If a person on TRT was only sleeping 4-5 hours a night for that reason he would be at a great DISADVANTAGE. Sure, you may have more energy or sense of well being than you normally would when sleep deprived. But there is a lot more to sleep than just rebounding test levels. Someone please correct me if im wrong, but I don't think you would benefit but a small percentage from level serum test levels without proper sleep. Not only is sleep is extremely important for anabolic functions of building and maintaining muscle, it's critical for everything else in your body. And training hard usually raises test levels...

I was only using lack of sleep as an example of something that lowers test levels. There are many other things in life that also lower test levels. A 50 year old man who restores his T levels to that of an 18 year old man has a significant advantage in sports compared with other 50 year old men who don't take testosterone .

[kelkel]

[QUOTE=Babyslim;6016401]No, it's not cheating at all. As long as a person isn't in supraphysiological ranges(That's my conservative response, I don't care if people run cycles either). I believe iv'e had low T since i was 17 or earlier. I'm 25 now and I feel like I was robbed of part of my life. Depression, no energy, low sex drive, low drive in life, under developed physically, insomnia, anxiety, the list goes on... Why on earth would fixing a health problem that can destroy your current and future life be cheating? By that logic, someone who blows out their ACL shouldn't have it fixed with surgery... or another with a metal hip... Were not talking about making the million dollar man here, just healthy NORMAL people.[/QUOTE]

^^love that response.

[Oldhighlander]

Wow I didn't think this would spark such a debate and this many comments.I am still not dialed in and am still having sleep issues.I just had another sleep study and have already been diagnosed with sleep apnea several years ago.So with that being said am I now on a level playing field with the other guys because I am sleep deprived?Sorry just being a wise ass.I still have not gotten that feeling of well being but I am working on it.This is much like the debate on the highland games board.There were a few that said the dose is so low with TRT that they wouldn't consider it performance enhancing.Even if it did give minimal gains in strength it wouldn't carry over that much because of the technics of throwing.So if you were good you might gain minimum and if you are not so good you would not turn into a pro over night.Another words the advantage might be minimal at best if there is an advantage at all.I am doing this stricly for my health.I to had no energy,deppression at times,no sex drive,no lust for life.I got tired of being tired and decided to do something about it.

[SEOINAGE]

Wow I didn't think this would spark such a debate and this many comments.I am still not dialed in and am still having sleep issues.I just had another sleep study and have already been diagnosed with sleep apnea several years ago.So with that being said am I now on a level playing field with the other guys because I am sleep deprived?Sorry just being a wise ass.I still have not gotten that feeling of well being but I am working on it.This is much like the debate on the highland games board.There were a few that said the dose is so low with TRT that they wouldn't consider it performance enhancing.Even if it did give minimal gains in strength it wouldn't carry over that much because of the technics of throwing.So if you were good you might gain minimum and if you are not so good you would not turn into a pro over night.Another words the advantage might be minimal at best if there is an advantage at all.I am doing this stricly for my health.I to had no energy,deppression at times,no sex drive,no lust for life.I got tired of being tired and decided to do something about it.

You have the right reason to be doing it. So never let anyone shove any of your accomplishments back in your face. I keep it quiet cause that's the last thing I want to hear is you are only successful because of x, and discredit the fact that you have trained your whole life, or however many years.

[kelkel]

^^x2

[Oldhighlander]

Thanks SEOINAGE and KELKEL.I have trained most of my life and have trained hard for what I have accomplished and I keep it quiet also.All of my records up until now were 100% natural including a world record so I guess I have some athletic ability.Just because I am on TRT doesn't mean I can quit training and still set records.It doesn't work that way.I guess it is just the stigma that bothers me.

[Babyslim]

i think of cheating as a crime

and if there is no victim there is no crime

you would have to impead your opponents performance to cheat, imo..not enhance yours

this bs that we have in the states where leagues drug test is crap, imo...leave ppl and their blood alone

^THIS
Not only is it not a crime, but NO ONE IS GETTING HURT. If a person has low T that person and goes on TRT, that person will be healthier. So it's not like they are abusing their body or hurting himself for short term performance gains.

Honestly I find it silly that there is debate on this... I'm sure that in the near future very few sports will regulate the use of TRT. The medical gains are for more important than the performance enhan***ent.

[Babyslim]

Double post... Stupid wireless card...

[kelkel]

If AAS alone made everyone like Arnold we'd all be looking like that. Genetics, lifestyle and hard training play a huge part!

[mattyx1000]

Its Def cheating, even though you T levels are within range(hopefully) your adding an outside drug to enhance your body. If your levels are 400 then its barely cheating, if there 900 then your just cheating a little more haha But who cares, as long as you feel like a bull and you can seize life then go for it!!!