Prescribed thyroxine sodium for thyroid

[Ace111]

Hi

I posted here earlier this year when I had blood work done to find out if I have low test, which I do. I also had my thyroid checked with blood tests and an ultrasound. My TSH was constantly between 3.5 and 3.9. Everything was normal on the ultrasound. Anyway I lost motivation to pursue TRT after an endo told me he wasn't going to look into my problem after my blood work showed my test crept into the low normal range.

Last week I finally went back to see a GP to have more blood work done which showed my test levels are lower than ever at 9.3 nmol/L (12-32 range), which is around 268 ng/dl. My TSH is up to 6.4 (0.4-3.5) with free T4 at 15.3 (10-23).

I was prescribed thyroxine sodium 50mcg because of this. I'm not sure that I want to take it because of possible side effects and I feel taking it is just controlling the symptoms instead of finding out what's actually causing the rise in TSH and low T levels. But it's only a small dose so maybe there won't be any adverse side effects.

Anyone taken it before? Experiences with it? Should I take it for 6 weeks like the doc said then go back for blood work while in the meantime start searching for a competent TRT specialist?

[SEOINAGE]

Ok, have you had thyroid antibodies checked?

There are very few people who will look into the cause of thyroid issues, most will just prescribe. Personally if you go that route I would advise you to take armor thyroid cause it contains t4 and t3.

I have been diagnosed with Hashimoto's, my endo found it first, but my current doctor was the one to claim i'm diagnosed with Hashimoto's. First doctor just prescribed generic synthroid , which i took and felt like crap so stopped.

But this new doctor wants to look into the cause of the Hashimoto's and see if we can eliminate what is causing the elevated thyroid antibodies. Sure they make money doing this, whereas the other doc would have referred me to someone else, well this clinic does it so maybe thats why they are more inclined to help me out.

At this point they are running a blood test to check food allergies, having it done next week. They are drawing blood, then having a lab check how it reacts to different substances, at least this is how they explained it to me. Also going to have a digestive health consult with the nurse, and go from there. So imagine diet will be changed a bit. And go from there, re test anitbodies after diet change for a few months.

So my point in responding, is yes you can look more into the cause of hypothyroidism, just have to find a place that is willing to do it. The place I go to is an "Integrative Medicine" center.

[kelkel]

You need to get your thyroid under control which will in turn raise your T levels. Then decide your next course of action. Agree with Seonage.

[steroid.com 1]

Hypogonadism will cause Hypothyroidism.

This is not as easy to diagnosis as it looks.

You need to find the right Physician who can work this out with you.

[APIs]

For what it's worth, Levothyroxine Sodium USP is the actual active ingredient in the drug. It's an old Rx that has been around for many years being used in both Human & Veterinary Medicine. It works quite well from what I hear, but I have no personal experience with it.

[Ace111]

Seoinage - you posted in a previous thread of mine, I remembered you said you took synthroid and you felt like crap taking it, which is why I'm hesitant about this stuff. I've heard of armour thyroid but apparently its expensive here in Aus and I don't think many doctors prescribe it. Good to hear you found a place that's willing to try and give you a proper diagnosis.

I didn't have antibodies checked this time around but a few months ago I did

TSH - 3.8 (0.4-3.5)
Free T4 - 13.9 (10-23)
Microsomal Ab - 10 (0-35)
Thyroglobulin Ab - 10 (0-115)

kelkel and gdevine - this seems like a chicken and egg situation - what came first? did hypothyroidism cause my low t or was it the other way around? gdevine you posted this study in my old thread - Kumar A, Chaturvedi PK, Mohanty BP. Hypoandrogenaemia is associated with subclinical hypothyroidism in men. Int J Androl. 2006 Jul 24

Its frustrating that doctors won't take the time, or they simply lack the knowledge to diagnose this properly. And its going to cost me big money to visit a specialist multiple times and even then its tought to find one that is competent enough.

APIs - seems there are mixed results with this medication, some say it worked for them, other say it didn't which is why I'm hesitant about taking it.

My main concern is hair loss as a side effect. My hair is already thinning on one side and my hairline is receding on that same side. I'm worried that taking this will make it worse.

[oscarjones]

Cynomel Mexico (Grossman) is one of the best brands of T3 to get, similar if not stronger than Cytomel USA. If I were you, I'd go ahead and jump on TRT and see if that corrects your thyroid issues, either way you're going to be replacing your hormones, and the thyroid is something that you don't want to **** with unless you need to. It's very complex, more so than people and doctors realize.

[SEOINAGE]

Honestly the trt might be a good idea, but then again I would think you could call around doctors offices and clinics till you find someone that looks more into this sort of thing.

[Ace111]

I don't want to rush into TRT without knowing why my test production is being suppressed. I'd rather try to get my own system going if at all possible and avoid TRT if possible. And I live in Australia (nanny state) so it will be hard to get test prescribed, especially at my age (25).

So yeah I'll have to call around to find a doc who's willing to look into it properly.

Thanks guys

[steroid.com 1]

Hypothyroidism mimics Hypogonadism in several of its effects...and vise versa (strictly speaking symptoms here).

Hypogonadism will/can cause Hypothyroidism.

[oscarjones]

I don't want to rush into TRT without knowing why my test production is being suppressed. I'd rather try to get my own system going if at all possible and avoid TRT if possible. And I live in Australia (nanny state) so it will be hard to get test prescribed, especially at my age (25).

So yeah I'll have to call around to find a doc who's willing to look into it properly.

Thanks guys

If the Dr. thinks you honestly have Hashimoto's then "watching" or "waiting" might be worse than taking action sooner than later. By action I mean with thyroid medication. In Hashimoto's even when measuring antibodies (after the administration of medication) the antibodies can be present for years even after you've counter attacked. Sometimes an aggressive course of action is required in order to get your thyroid stable, especially if you have Hashimoto's, and in my experience Dr.s tend to wait until labs stabilize before adjusting the dose of medication, which can take years, like I mentioned, and you'll just continue to suffer. I'd say chose a combination of dessicated thyroid (such as Armour or ERFA [patients with Hashi's are tending to see better results with this {contains both T3/T4 respectively}), and T3 (Cynomel Mexico or Cytomel USA, both are great brands) which will give you more things to play with while adjusting your dose.

I'd recommend checking for Adrenal apathy, through a saliva cortisol test (more accurate than blood), ferritin w/ TIBC, and an iodine loading test.

I'll explain Iron now (ferritin).

Iron deficiency is shown to reduce T4-T3 conversion rates, increase reverse T3, and block the thermogenic properties of thyroid hormones. Symptoms of low iron can be the same as adrenal fatigue (and may be adrenaline induced), anxiety, panic, uneven heart beats etc... These may already be present and be surprising when they worsen when a person is treating their hypothyroid condition.

Iron forms part of the mechanism that transports thyroid hormones into cells (as well as cortisol, but we'll get to adrenals in a minute), and can lead to the pooling of thyroid hormone in your blood while being metabolically hypo, which will skew Free T3 blood results. (This is part of the reason reverse T3 levels should be checked). This is a sort of thyroid resistance, and you can't just add more T3 to overcome it, you need to address the root problem.

You can measure your ferritin (storage iron) and if it's below 70 you may end up with an intolerance issue. It's kind of a "catch-22" because low thyroid makes it hard to hang onto iron and low iron makes it hard to treat thyroid. Now, here's where it gets really confusing, sometimes ferritin can be at a good level, yet there's still low iron in the body, and this is mainly because inflammation can cause false high's in ferritin.

Some notes on iron testing. If you're ferritin is in the 70-90 range, you should also check the saturation %, it should be between 35%-45% and any lower than 35% and you need more iron. (This can be done through a full iron panel, mentioned above). Iron serum should be at least 90. If your TIBC and UIBC are low, don't take too much iron, maybe 27mg daily, and as long as the % saturation and serum are good, you should be ok to treat thyroid.

Now for Adrenals.

Adrenal apathy can cause a decreased production of cortisol, and for many of the same reasons listed above, it's very much needed to treat thryoid properly. Cortisol functions as one of the "keys" for "using up" thyroid hormone and I recommended getting your cortisol levels tested through saliva because it's a more accurate way to testing. If you get it tested through blood you could have skewed results due to having higher levels of cortisol released right at the time of blood drawing (it is a stress hormone after all, and most people get slightly nervous while getting blood taken).

This is about as much as I will share at the time, but if you have any further questions please ask and I'd love to help you out with this.

[Ace111]

If the Dr. thinks you honestly have Hashimoto's then "watching" or "waiting" might be worse than taking action sooner than later. By action I mean with thyroid medication. In Hashimoto's even when measuring antibodies (after the administration of medication) the antibodies can be present for years even after you've counter attacked. Sometimes an aggressive course of action is required in order to get your thyroid stable, especially if you have Hashimoto's, and in my experience Dr.s tend to wait until labs stabilize before adjusting the dose of medication, which can take years, like I mentioned, and you'll just continue to suffer. I'd say chose a combination of dessicated thyroid (such as Armour or ERFA [patients with Hashi's are tending to see better results with this {contains both T3/T4 respectively}), and T3 (Cynomel Mexico or Cytomel USA, both are great brands) which will give you more things to play with while adjusting your dose.

I'd recommend checking for Adrenal apathy, through a saliva cortisol test (more accurate than blood), ferritin w/ TIBC, and an iodine loading test.

I'll explain Iron now (ferritin).

Iron deficiency is shown to reduce T4-T3 conversion rates, increase reverse T3, and block the thermogenic properties of thyroid hormones. Symptoms of low iron can be the same as adrenal fatigue (and may be adrenaline induced), anxiety, panic, uneven heart beats etc... These may already be present and be surprising when they worsen when a person is treating their hypothyroid condition.

Iron forms part of the mechanism that transports thyroid hormones into cells (as well as cortisol, but we'll get to adrenals in a minute), and can lead to the pooling of thyroid hormone in your blood while being metabolically hypo, which will skew Free T3 blood results. (This is part of the reason reverse T3 levels should be checked). This is a sort of thyroid resistance, and you can't just add more T3 to overcome it, you need to address the root problem.

You can measure your ferritin (storage iron) and if it's below 70 you may end up with an intolerance issue. It's kind of a "catch-22" because low thyroid makes it hard to hang onto iron and low iron makes it hard to treat thyroid. Now, here's where it gets really confusing, sometimes ferritin can be at a good level, yet there's still low iron in the body, and this is mainly because inflammation can cause false high's in ferritin.

Some notes on iron testing. If you're ferritin is in the 70-90 range, you should also check the saturation %, it should be between 35%-45% and any lower than 35% and you need more iron. (This can be done through a full iron panel, mentioned above). Iron serum should be at least 90. If your TIBC and UIBC are low, don't take too much iron, maybe 27mg daily, and as long as the % saturation and serum are good, you should be ok to treat thyroid.

Now for Adrenals.

Adrenal apathy can cause a decreased production of cortisol, and for many of the same reasons listed above, it's very much needed to treat thryoid properly. Cortisol functions as one of the "keys" for "using up" thyroid hormone and I recommended getting your cortisol levels tested through saliva because it's a more accurate way to testing. If you get it tested through blood you could have skewed results due to having higher levels of cortisol released right at the time of blood drawing (it is a stress hormone after all, and most people get slightly nervous while getting blood taken).

This is about as much as I will share at the time, but if you have any further questions please ask and I'd love to help you out with this.

Hi
I didn't mention Hashimoto's, the other poster (seoinage) did. Doctors haven't diagnosed me with anything as of yet. I got the prescription for thyroxine purely just by the TSH result, which doesn't seem right to me. I'm hesitant to go on T4 replacement (or any other hormone for that matter) since I don't really know what's going on, is it my thyroid messing everything up or is my thyroid getting messed up because of what ever is causing my low test? Seems that its too much work for the medical professionals to do their job.

If I take thyroid replacement hormones, does my body stop producing its own as with exogenous testosterone and the shutdown of the HPTA?

"Adrenal apathy, through a saliva cortisol test (more accurate than blood), ferritin w/ TIBC, and an iodine loading test."
So is this what I should ask to get tested to get a clearer picture of whats going on?

Your post was informative, as well as the thread you made about thyroid treatment. I'll have to re read them a few more times though so it sinks in.

This whole thing is really doing my head in.

[Ace111]

After I got the results in the OP I switched to a paleo-esque diet. I cut out grains, gluten and processed foods. Ate mostly meats, fats, dairy (cheese, cream, milk), vegetables and fruits.

Got my results back from last week:

TSH - 3.2 (0.4-3.5)
Free T4 - 15.4 (10-23)
Free T3 - 4.9 (3.9-6.8)

So TSH improved without taking synthetic T4 but still not where I would want it to be.

[SEOINAGE]

Thanks for the info, been 8 weeks roughly on my diet changes and have thyroid labs next week. I haven't been able to have milk and it's torture with everything else I can't have as well. It's interesting to see your TSH levels drop back down so much, but back in to an area you saw them before? Also interesting your t4 is about exactly the same, I won't be surprised if I have similar results but it was worth trying right?

[Ace111]

It's definitely worth a shot. I'll try anything before popping pills. At least what seemed to be IBS like symptoms are gone. I don't get stomach cramps and bloating anymore.

I reduced my milk consumption until the last 5 weeks or so when I started working out again and needed more calories but I was eating cheese the whole time.

Do you have a thread outlining what your current treatment/diet is or are you going to make a thread when you get your labs? I'm really interested in the results.

Reading this article is what gave me the idea to try this diet - http://www.washingtonian.com/blogs/w...ed-my-life.php

[Brazensol]

How about your symptoms? Have they improved?

[Ace111]

How about your symptoms? Have they improved?

Unfortunately no, at least not that I can tell.
They didn't get any worse either when the TSH shot up to 6.4. Maybe I need to get it below 2 to notice any difference.

[juice2012]

I went through a similar ordeal where I kept waiting see what the "cause" was, but after suffering for months I decided it's not worth losing my job and thus health insurance and said screw it, time to start TRT. You may never find the cause, the question is how long do you want to suffer before giving in.

[SEOINAGE]

I went through a similar ordeal where I kept waiting see what the "cause" was, but after suffering for months I decided it's not worth losing my job and thus health insurance and said screw it, time to start TRT. You may never find the cause, the question is how long do you want to suffer before giving in.

I know this is kind of off topic, but it brings up something I had been thinking about. People have talked about naturally bringing T levels up, and even though I think mine have been sort of low for a while, before I took my current job, I think this job and the lack of sleep and odd early middle of the night hours is something that could contribute to it. But it's like quit your job, lose your income, then you really can't afford TRT if it doesn't fix the situation. I can't blame it entirely, and I can't expect to have some perfect job with zero stress and everythings great, especially earlier in someones career.

[juice2012]

SEOINAGE, I'm sure sleep and stress could be huge contributing factors. That's the giant catch-22 we face in the US, lose your job and lose your access to healthcare. There were some times I was for sure thought I was going to get fired missing so many days or just straight up under-performing but my bosses were really understanding. I'm still no where near 100% but I can at least make it thought the day with out wanting to die at my desk.

[600@50]

After I got the results in the OP I switched to a paleo-esque diet. I cut out grains, gluten and processed foods. Ate mostly meats, fats, dairy (cheese, cream, milk), vegetables and fruits.

Got my results back from last week:

TSH - 3.2 (0.4-3.5)
Free T4 - 15.4 (10-23)
Free T3 - 4.9 (3.9-6.8)

So TSH improved without taking synthetic T4 but still not where I would want it to be.

First of all great job on improving the TSH. Have you tried any mineral supplements for your thyroid? Selenium and iodine supplements are available and may be of help in your case since you improved so much through diet alone.

[Ace111]

First of all great job on improving the TSH. Have you tried any mineral supplements for your thyroid? Selenium and iodine supplements are available and may be of help in your case since you improved so much through diet alone.

I've got an unopened bottle of iodine potassium oral spray here but after reading these -
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/iodine12345/
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...-problems.aspx
- I'm not sure about taking it.

I've found a BHRT specialist in my area who, by reading through his website, seems to check up on the functioning of the thyroid, adrenal and pituitary glands to determine what needs balancing out.

[600@50]

It's all a balancing act when it comes to hormones. The only way to know if you're mineral deficient is to get bw done. I have a friend that responded well to selenium and iodine. You may or may not.