Free T vs DHT - is this the same thing? Aus does not measure DHT?

**oscar1990** · 06-18-2012, 07:21 PM

Hi there,

I have had my steroid hormones checked in the past and have noticed that DHT is never analysed, with some research online I found that AUS does not measure DHT? this seems weird as DHT is a potent androgen and responsible for many good and bad medical issues.

My question is..

Why does Australia not measure DHT? What if DHT was the cause/culprit to a medical condition e.g. BPH, low libido, balding etc. How would one identify DHT as the cause if it is not tested?

Furthermore, I noticed that Free T is measured quite often with any hormone panel in AUS, is Free T an indicator or reflection of DHT?

e.g. my Free Testosterone : 53.1pmol/l (25-120) and my Total Testosterone is: 24 (Range: 9.1-29)
As you can see my Free T is midway of the range but my total t is on the higher/upper end of the range - would this insinuate my bodies T is more bound than unbound T thus resulting in an average Free T which should be converted to DHT or E?

(Reserach suggests that free t is either converted to DHT or E)

I am a little confused as to why AUS doesn't measure DHT as it is responsible for libido, well-being, etc.

Does a higher Free T result in higher libido, strength gains, sense of well-being?

**kelkel** · 06-18-2012, 07:49 PM

Aus is not up with the times. Neither are most doc's in the U.S. for that matter. It should be part of a baseline for any hormone panel. Free T is more an indicator of shbg than DHT. SHBG binds free T and what's bound cannot convert to DHT via 5AR. Higher DHT usually = lower SHBG, but not always. I'm an example there. Also remember that DHT is suppressive of estrogen on 3 different levels.

Your conversion theory is basically correct. Higher free T, within range, gives your body the maximum chance to achieve the goals mentioned in your last sentence. To lower your shbg, if in fact it's high, supplement with vit D which in turn will raise your Free T.

**oscar1990** · 06-18-2012, 08:16 PM

Ok, that makes sense. Thanks for your input.

My SHBG is on the higher side and I dont know why im assuming it's genetic.

I usually have vit D 5000iu twice a week. Ive heard people taking 10000iu daily. I think I might start taking 5000iu on a daily basis.

**Vettester** · 06-18-2012, 08:53 PM

Kelk is right, it's not just your country on this. Most GP's and family practitioners in the US wouldn't ever dream of testing someone for their DHT. I know my GP have never ran a lab for it.

Anyways, as far as the results you provided, they are pretty decent (or let's say it could be worse). The total serum is equal to 691 ng/dl, and your free test equals 15.2 ng/dl, which comes in at 2.2% (2% to 3% is fairly normal). Your SHBG is probably somewhere around 30 to 35, depending on your albumin. As Kelkel stated, some vitamin D supplementation can be implemented to help reduce this a bit too.

Now, that was the easy part to figure. The million dollar question is, what's happening with the "T" downstream? If your E2 is lagging then maybe there is some extra DHT being converted. However, like Kelk already alluded to, the chances are that your SHBG would be lower if your DHT was elevated. Usually, seems higher E2 levels will be associated with increased SHBG levels (but not always). It's a complex setup, and what works for one isn't always the case for someone else.

**kelkel** · 06-19-2012, 09:28 AM

Oscar regarding Vit D, yes you can up your dose to 5k daily. Example, Vette & I both happen to use a prescription for D called Drisdol which is 50K IU taken one time per week. My D rose from 25 to about 80 in 3 months.

**Simon1972** · 06-20-2012, 06:15 PM

they do test for DHT in Australia, Drs have to ask for it- Healthscope pathology outsources to a lab in Sydney for the test.

takes weeks as they do the test in batches- mine took 2 weeks before it came back and my dr didnt call me to tell me it arrived, you have to ask for it.

**oscar1990** · 07-03-2012, 04:55 AM

Vetteman and Kelkel always very helpful advice. As for Simon1972 thats surprising, I did some research and wasn't able to locate a lab.

**oscar1990** · 07-03-2012, 05:01 AM

Vetteman08, when you say pretty decent do yo mean there acceptable or near optimal..? I dont know if you recall my stats late 11' when I was ill my TT was 16. Now that im on my meds my T is much higher.

how the hell did you convert my stats? from p/mol to ng/dl - also you said my SHBG is around 30-35 is this assumption based on my TT being 24? I remember reading in a journal the higher TT the more optimal SHBG becomes..

**xtitan1** · 07-03-2012, 12:28 PM

Well this thing won't let me post URLs but if you go to mens-hormonal-health dot com they have a unit conversion calculator there as well as optimal levels based on age range.

**oscar1990** · 07-03-2012, 10:13 PM

thanks for the website Xtitan1

**oscar1990** · 07-03-2012, 10:32 PM

bump for kelkel and vetteman08

**Simon1972** · 07-03-2012, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by oscar1990

Vetteman and Kelkel always very helpful advice. As for Simon1972 thats surprising, I did some research and wasn't able to locate a lab.

hey dont go bagging me out just because your too scared to ask your doc for a DHT test- if the test isnt available in australia two things might be happening.
1. your dr is lying to you
2. your dr doesnt have the knowledge to give you proper service
3. your research skills suck-go back to question one and force the FVcker to give you the test. ( ok thats 3)

press the star at the bottom of this post!!!

**DanMan250** · 07-04-2012, 04:08 PM

I had my DHT tested several years ago when I used to live in Australia. Simon rightly pointed out that it takes a long time to get back the results of this test. Don't just ask your doc for DHT ask for dihydrotestosterone. Be prepared that your doc will more than likely have no idea what it is! I remember when I asked for it the doc, who earlier boasted to me that he had lots of patients on TRT said "don't you mean DHEA?" I said "no i mean DHT - dihydrotestosterone.". The doc then said "I haven't heard of that one, you must be getting this information off the internet". Dickhead!

**Simon1972** · 07-04-2012, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by DanMan250

I had my DHT tested several years ago when I used to live in Australia. Simon rightly pointed out that it takes a long time to get back the results of this test. Don't just ask your doc for DHT ask for dihydrotestosterone. Be prepared that your doc will more than likely have no idea what it is! I remember when I asked for it the doc, who earlier boasted to me that he had lots of patients on TRT said "don't you mean DHEA?" I said "no i mean DHT - dihydrotestosterone.". The doc then said "I haven't heard of that one, you must be getting this information off the internet". Dickhead!

thats right dan- my doc looked it up on google and then made out that "ohhh yes you meant Di hydro-blah blah " as if he knew and i was talking slang.

**oscar1990** · 07-04-2012, 07:21 PM

I want to refine a few things..

When I said Aus does not test for DHT.. I meant why is not measured as a primary or secondary hormone at your local GP to alleviate a certain medical situation/circumstance.

Obviously you can get it tested if you asked for it or put your doc into a suspense situation, however that defeats the purpose of DHT importance.. is the medical school/industry a laggard or is DHT just as not important as TT.. this was the point I am trying to make.

I am also convinced that 80% of doctors 'average gp' dont know shit and rely on labs. I think Aus needs to strengthen the medical industry as for many others.

**oscar1990** · 07-04-2012, 07:22 PM

LOL at DanMan250 ex GP in AUS

**Simon1972** · 07-04-2012, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by oscar1990

I want to refine a few things..

When I said Aus does not test for DHT.. I meant why is not measured as a primary or secondary hormone at your local GP to alleviate a certain medical situation/circumstance.
it is measured- by capable dr's in circumstances that require it.

Obviously you can get it tested if you asked for it or put your doc into a suspense situation, however that defeats the purpose of DHT importance.. is the medical school/industry a laggard or is DHT just as not important as TT.. this was the point I am trying to make.

just say you are worried about hearloss - DHT causes hairloss

I am also convinced that 80% of doctors 'average gp' dont know shit and rely on labs. I think Aus needs to strengthen the medical industry as for many others.

become a polititian and put thru your first bill in parliament- nothing will change by wishing for it

give me a fricken star!!!!!

**oscar1990** · 07-05-2012, 05:57 PM

You have your star Simon1972

**DanMan250** · 07-06-2012, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by oscar1990

I want to refine a few things..

When I said Aus does not test for DHT.. I meant why is not measured as a primary or secondary hormone at your local GP to alleviate a certain medical situation/circumstance.

Obviously you can get it tested if you asked for it or put your doc into a suspense situation, however that defeats the purpose of DHT importance.. is the medical school/industry a laggard or is DHT just as not important as TT.. this was the point I am trying to make.

I am also convinced that 80% of doctors 'average gp' dont know shit and rely on labs. I think Aus needs to strengthen the medical industry as for many others.

Don't run away with the idea that it is just Aus docs who are lagging behind in their knowledge of male hormones. It is exactly the same in the UK, US and other developed countries. Don't get mad at the docs, get mad with the medical training institutions! The docs only know what they were taught. Even today they get little to no formal training in male hormones. This applies to endocrinology as well. The only useful docs for us are the ones who have been driven by their own personal interest in male hormones or some anti-aging docs who receive a little training in this area.
DHT is a very important hormone and should always be tested. Imo it is just as important to test for as TT.

**oscar1990** · 07-07-2012, 05:40 AM

I definitely agree with you DanMan250. It's a pity professionals sometimes are not able to assist a patient in the most reasonable or appropriate way/form thus leading to individuals taking things into their own hands.

If I become a politician in AUS, not that I ever will but if I did I will hand out free test to every patient, seems like I have the 'whatever suits if it's within the lab range' doctor syndrome, just as logical as some of the doctors we have in Sydney.

Anyways, definitely beating a dead horse now.