New here 35 on TRT and have some questions

**dtrader** · 07-09-2012, 10:47 AM

I am 35 have been on TRT for about 6 months. I have been doing the implants. My original T levels were 400 ( reference range was 300-900 or there abouts ). My estrogen levels were quite high at 51.

I am 5'10", 260 lbs, and out of shape. My question is, and please forgive my arrogance, what is the lowest amount of calories one can take and lose weight without totally destroying my metabolism ( While on TRT )? I had my levels checked after my first implant ( 6 weeks in ) and my T-Levels were 1100.. and my estrogen levels were 31. Doctor loved the results. She implanted me with the same dosage for my second visit ( this was 2 weeks ago ).

My main goal with TRT is to feel better. And that seems to be working. Energy is up.. mood is up, sex drive is out of control. I sleep better, have less aches and pains, and overall have a better sense of well being. I remember reading online someplace that men taking testosterone can drop calories lower than those who are not, and not damage the metabolism. Is this correct? My metabolism is sluggish.. I work out 3 times a week with weights and do light cardio. I really want to get the weight off.

**forrest_and_trees** · 07-09-2012, 11:09 AM

My first inclination is, have you had your thyroid checked? If so, what are your TSH, T4 and T3 levels? If not, that's your first step. It's not uncommon for men with Hypogonadism to also have Hypothyroidism.

As far as caloric intake, for a man your age and height, about 2200 to 2500 is good, assuming your metabolism is normal.

If you have an iPhone, there's a great app you can get called "Lose It!" or you can just go to their website if you don't have an iPhone and use the online version. [just Google them] You tell it how much you want to weigh, how soon you want to reach that goal and your vitals, and it will tell you how much you can consume each day. It tracks everything you eat and your activities. So if you work out one day, you can consume more calories and still maintain the weight loss schedule.

Id' say those are some good places to start.

BTW glad to hear the implants are working for you. Do you find you experience any fluctuations throughout the cycle? Especially near the end when you're due for a new implant?

**dtrader** · 07-09-2012, 02:13 PM

I am going to have a full blood work re-done in 4 weeks and I will request to have Free T3 and Free T4.. as my doctor ONLY measured TSH in the first blood work and I was 1.9 ( I forget the reference range but I was in range ).

My metabolism does suck. I will state that right now. I can eat a very clean low carb and don't lose. If I cut my cals drastically I can lose.. seems like it's either drastic or stay the same.

And to answer you question yes I could feel the pellets build up. My last cycle I was feellng great 4 months in.. I mean feeling AWESOME.. and then I hit a wall. It was like over night.. dropped off a cliff. Lol. Funny how that works. I had my levels tested at 4 months and my T levels were 1,000... and then off the cliff I went.

**steroid.com 1** · 07-09-2012, 02:59 PM

In my humble opinion I think the best diet for weight lose is the hypoglycemic diet.

Optimized Testosterone levels increases your resting metabolic state = weight lose.

Why your metabolism is "sluggish" may need further testing.

The likelihood of being Hypothyroid is less likely given your current testosterone levels and a TSH of 1.9...which is fine.

Keep in mind, TRT is no panacea; you need a good diet along with a good exercise program to see optimal results.

Was your Estrogen panel done using a "sensitive" panel? If not, pretty much that "31" is useless.

Wondering about your E2 if this was not the sensitive assay.

**kelkel** · 07-09-2012, 03:10 PM

Above guys on target as usual. Op, check out the Nutrition forum. Some great advice to be had over there.

**dtrader** · 07-09-2012, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by gdevine

In my humble opinion I think the best diet for weight lose is the hypoglycemic diet.

Optimized Testosterone levels increases your resting metabolic state = weight lose.

Why your metabolism is "sluggish" may need further testing.

The likelihood of being Hypothyroid is less likely given your current testosterone levels and a TSH of 1.9...which is fine.

Keep in mind, TRT is no panacea; you need a good diet along with a good exercise program to see optimal results.

Was your Estrogen panel done using a "sensitive" panel? If not, pretty much that "31" is useless.

Wondering about your E2 if this was not the sensitive assay.

GDEVINE,
I checked my lab results regarding estrogen. Don't know if this helps but this is what is says "Estradiol, Serum = 57 ( I was wrong earlier and thought it was 51 prior to taking implants with the aramtase inhibitor ) reference range 0-54 PG/ML.

4 months into my first cycle my levels had dropped to 31.. while my test was over a 1,000. The doctor seemed very happy with this "Ratio". TSH was 1.9, reference range was .4-4.00 Micro IU/ML.

And just an FYI.. my first Cycle I was put on 1700 MG Testosterone ( she never really said what KIND of testosterone this is? It's a BIO-IDENTICAL PELLET ).. and I was also implanted with 20 MG aromatase Inhibitor. This dose made me feel quite good and was repeated a couple of weeks ago.

Also I failed to mention, my Cortisol levels were quite low. Very low by Dr's opinion. She put me on Hydrocortisone 10mg 3x a Day for a total of 30mg a day. She said that my body needs it right now.

**GotNoBlueMilk** · 07-09-2012, 04:13 PM

Are you looking for a steady diet or to optimize fat loss over a period of time? For quick fat loss, itermitent fasting seems to be the best. It keeps the metabolism from going into starvation mode, but you get quick fat loss. Google the heck out of this to learn more.

**dtrader** · 07-09-2012, 04:26 PM

Good question and thanks for asking as I didn't address this. So much great info on this site and I want to thank those who have replied so far, thanks! Right now I am looking for quick fat loss first. I know this isn't the "best" idea for many, but I think for me it is. I did lose some weight strictly though sever calorie reduction and I felt so much better after shedding off 30 lbs. I want to get down to about 200 as quickly as possible because this extra weight just makes everything harder. I noticed when I lost the first 30 lbs my reflux went away and my mobility went through the roof.. I want to keep shedding off the pounds to get to a healthy weight, and then focus on adding muscle. Being a bigger guy ( as in fat ) it's hard to want to lift weight when you can't see in progress because it's all covered! It sucks.

I am going to check out this intermitent fasting.. sounds really interesting!

Originally Posted by GotNoBlueMilk

Are you looking for a steady diet or to optimize fat loss over a period of time? For quick fat loss, itermitent fasting seems to be the best. It keeps the metabolism from going into starvation mode, but you get quick fat loss. Google the heck out of this to learn more.

**steroid.com 1** · 07-10-2012, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by dtrader

GDEVINE,
I checked my lab results regarding estrogen. Don't know if this helps but this is what is says "Estradiol, Serum = 57 ( I was wrong earlier and thought it was 51 prior to taking implants with the aramtase inhibitor ) reference range 0-54 PG/ML.

If the lab report doesn't say something like "sensitive" you had an Estradiol test for a women which and be grossly inaccurate for men. Nevertheless, if you are 57 pg/ml you have elevated E2 and a possible reason for your weight problem.

4 months into my first cycle my levels had dropped to 31.. while my test was over a 1,000. The doctor seemed very happy with this "Ratio". TSH was 1.9, reference range was .4-4.00 Micro IU/ML.

Agree with the Doc.

And just an FYI.. my first Cycle I was put on 1700 MG Testosterone ( she never really said what KIND of testosterone this is? It's a BIO-IDENTICAL PELLET ).. and I was also implanted with 20 MG aromatase Inhibitor. This dose made me feel quite good and was repeated a couple of weeks ago.

Also I failed to mention, my Cortisol levels were quite low. Very low by Dr's opinion. She put me on Hydrocortisone 10mg 3x a Day for a total of 30mg a day. She said that my body needs it right now.

Very low Cortisol can be a sign of Adrenal Fatigue and the addition of the HC is a good idea. With really low cortisol levels in men can make them feel really bad...really bad.

How do you feel with the addition of the HC now?

**dtrader** · 07-10-2012, 10:52 PM

Gdevine,

I feel quite good on the HC. It took me a while to notice because my testosterone numbers were not so good.. but once my T-Levels were up AND i was taking the HC 3x a day ( instead of the slow release HC ).. I could tell a major difference.

I think the key for me to continue feel great is timing of my implants. My t-levels were 1000 at the 4 month mark.. and then I dropped really quick. By the time I realized that it was definitely my testosterone going south and getting another implant appointment scheduled, it was a 5 month stretch or so. next time.. I won't be so slow to react. I am guessing it takes some time to get accustomed to the early warning signs of that.

Originally Posted by gdevine

Very low Cortisol can be a sign of Adrenal Fatigue and the addition of the HC is a good idea. With really low cortisol levels in men can make them feel really bad...really bad.

How do you feel with the addition of the HC now?

**steroid.com 1** · 07-10-2012, 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by dtrader

Gdevine,

I feel quite good on the HC. It took me a while to notice because my testosterone numbers were not so good.. but once my T-Levels were up AND i was taking the HC 3x a day ( instead of the slow release HC ).. I could tell a major difference.

I think the key for me to continue feel great is timing of my implants. My t-levels were 1000 at the 4 month mark.. and then I dropped really quick. By the time I realized that it was definitely my testosterone going south and getting another implant appointment scheduled, it was a 5 month stretch or so. next time.. I won't be so slow to react. I am guessing it takes some time to get accustomed to the early warning signs of that.

I am not familiar with implants, however, that being said, if the implants are not spaced out correctly and in line with half-life it could be the same roller coaster we see with men here on injections every two weeks...or more!

Glade to hear about the success of HC...it's a Godsend for guys like you.

Very happy for you man

**600@50** · 07-11-2012, 04:30 AM

Welcome dtrader. You've come to the right place for some really good advice and info. There are a bunch of guys here that know their stuff.

I've been on TRT for almost 20 years now and one of the first things my doc did was to run a basal metabolic function test. They hook you up and measure your resting caloric expenditure. He used this test in conjunction with the bw to determine the meds needed. Luckily I only needed test. TRT is a process. It has it's highs and lows but it's worth it.

**ZenFitness** · 07-11-2012, 08:45 AM

Hey dtrader, I'm on the implants (pellets) too, and I started just over a month ago. I'm 36, so we are in the same boat in some respects!

Question for you - and I don't mean to be redundant on my other thread - but I found that I did great the first three weeks or so all around (emotionally, physically, etc.), but, over the past week and a half or so, things have dropped off and I seem to crater emotionally pretty quickly. I'm waiting on my first BW results, but I thought I'd ask if you had a similar experience.

In regards to weight loss, I lost about 50 lbs. a few years ago, and the best way that worked for me is as follows:

1. Find the target weight you want
2. Determine the daily caloric need for #1
3. Eat 4 - 5 meals a day (instead of 2 - 3) that measure up to #2 in total calories
4. Exercise - don't overemphasize cardio. I did high intensity cardio 1 - 2 days a week and heavy weightlifting 2 - 3 days a week. The latter will help you burn calories while at rest and the former will really target fat loss.
5. Cut out alcohol (or at least beer) if you really want to drop weight MUCH faster
6. Cut out smoking/smokeless tobacco
7. Limit caffeine to two servings a day, both before 10:30 AM
8. Make being healthy your #1 goal

Focus on foods that are lean proteins (i.e. turkey, tuna, buffalo, etc.) and also include some good fats (walnuts, avocado, etc.). I would also recommend taking fish oil - I take 4000 mg a day (2000 in the morning and 2000 at night, still do this).

**dtrader** · 07-11-2012, 10:18 AM

To be honest, my results were kind of the opposite. When I first started pellets it took me a while to notice the change.. about 5-6 weeks in and I started to feel real good, 2 months in with diet and exercise I was feeling incredible.. all the way to the 4 months. Then my levels started to drop quickly.. and I didn't get implants put back in until about 5 months. I have been on this round for two weeks and I can tell things are getting better, but I am convinced I waited too long and should have scheduled an appt at the first sign of feeling tired ( for a few days in a row ) right around the four month mark.

Do you know how much your doctor gave you in the form of pellets? Did he/she implant you with an aromatase inhibitor to block conversion to estrogen?

Looking at my receipt, I was implanted with 1700mg Test, and 20 MG of AI

My doctor is very big on eating fat. Her exact words were "If you don't eat plenty of fat every day, this won't work".. She gave me a handout with foods that look very similar to a paleo/atkins diet. I am going to combine this with Intermittent fasting and see how that goes!

Originally Posted by ZenFitness

Hey dtrader, I'm on the implants (pellets) too, and I started just over a month ago. I'm 36, so we are in the same boat in some respects!

Question for you - and I don't mean to be redundant on my other thread - but I found that I did great the first three weeks or so all around (emotionally, physically, etc.), but, over the past week and a half or so, things have dropped off and I seem to crater emotionally pretty quickly. I'm waiting on my first BW results, but I thought I'd ask if you had a similar experience.

In regards to weight loss, I lost about 50 lbs. a few years ago, and the best way that worked for me is as follows:

1. Find the target weight you want
2. Determine the daily caloric need for #1
3. Eat 4 - 5 meals a day (instead of 2 - 3) that measure up to #2 in total calories
4. Exercise - don't overemphasize cardio. I did high intensity cardio 1 - 2 days a week and heavy weightlifting 2 - 3 days a week. The latter will help you burn calories while at rest and the former will really target fat loss.
5. Cut out alcohol (or at least beer) if you really want to drop weight MUCH faster
6. Cut out smoking/smokeless tobacco
7. Limit caffeine to two servings a day, both before 10:30 AM
8. Make being healthy your #1 goal

Focus on foods that are lean proteins (i.e. turkey, tuna, buffalo, etc.) and also include some good fats (walnuts, avocado, etc.). I would also recommend taking fish oil - I take 4000 mg a day (2000 in the morning and 2000 at night, still do this).

**Brohim** · 07-11-2012, 02:06 PM

If you are overweight by 20-30 lbs. it will take a while to loose it. You didn't gain it overnight so don't expect to get rid of it "really quick". The reason ppl get fat is they stop working out and eating right. So if you start to do this again things will come back.

Eating fat is cool for guys who are not on TRT but frankly it won't do much for your Test as your endogenous production is shutdown. Maybe she meant non saturated fat's like fish oil for your lipids who knows.

Good news is your doc know's what she is doing for TRT. You got plenty of pellet's and she even gave you an AI and your test levels and great and E2 is in range. You should make fast progress.