Testosterone and Prostate Safety

**kelkel** · 07-10-2012, 04:25 PM

Interesting excerpt from a study. Thought some of you may find it interesting.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...808.x/abstract

**MuscleInk** · 07-10-2012, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Interesting excerpt from a study. Thought some of you may find it interesting.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...808.x/abstract

Thanks bro. I just came off my HRT in March-May due to elevated PSA. Off cycle my PSA dropped back to normal levels. The oncology community still debates the relationship between PSA and prostate adenocarcinomas. PSA is an imperfect predictor of prostate Ca but is unfortunately the "best" predictor at present. This reference is interesting. Thanks for passing it along.

**bass** · 07-10-2012, 10:56 PM

thanks for the post Kel, every time i test my PSA it goes up by 0.1, before TRT my PSA was at 0.5 range 0-4.0, now its 1.0. i have no symptoms of prostate swelling but i am concerned, this article gives me some relief but it doesn't explain why my PSA keeps going up!

**MuscleInk** · 07-11-2012, 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by bass

thanks for the post Kel, every time i test my PSA it goes up by 0.1, before TRT my PSA was at 0.5 range 0-4.0, now its 1.0. i have no symptoms of prostate swelling but i am concerned, this article gives me some relief but it doesn't explain why my PSA keeps going up!

My PSA shot up to 6.1. Doc took me off HRT and asked me to stop my cycle (he knows about my gear) for 8-10 weeks. My PSA dropped to 1.4 off all tx.

If you're worried about PSA rising, if you can get your hands on 5-10mg Cialis daily, it'll treat elevated PSA prophylactically.

**600@50** · 07-11-2012, 04:03 AM

Thanks for the article Kel. My endo always does the psa bw and the yearly digital exam. After almost 20 years of TRT and the occasional cycle my psa is 0.4. It's good to know TRT is not the blame for an increased chance of prostate ca. I do take saw palmetto and believe it does help as a preventative measure.

**kelkel** · 07-11-2012, 07:57 AM

Bass I thought you were already on Cialis daily: I've posted the below link multiple times:

http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsro.../ucm274642.htm

**zaggahamma** · 07-11-2012, 08:27 AM

reckon they ought to look at the estrogen inmbalances more

no mention of the such in the study that i saw

**bullshark99** · 07-11-2012, 08:36 AM

Great article Kel, last visit to my clinic the nurse prationer said they are starting to beleive its not the Tes but rather elevated E2 which is the danger??? If true, helps our cause. Also, PSA really is a piss poor indicator of cancer, but suppose its the best we have. Velocity (how big the increases are) yearly from what I understand is maybe a litle more telling

**bass** · 07-11-2012, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

My PSA shot up to 6.1. Doc took me off HRT and asked me to stop my cycle (he knows about my gear) for 8-10 weeks. My PSA dropped to 1.4 off all tx.

If you're worried about PSA rising, if you can get your hands on 5-10mg Cialis daily, it'll treat elevated PSA prophylactically.

thanks for the info MI, WOW 6.1 down to 1.4! big drop.

Originally Posted by kelkel

Bass I thought you were already on Cialis daily: I've posted the below link multiple times:

http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsro.../ucm274642.htm

i don't have ED problem, my libido is perfect, not too crazy when i was on 200 mgs ew, will it increase my libido? is it RX?

Originally Posted by jpkman

reckon they ought to look at the estrogen inmbalances more

no mention of the such in the study that i saw

interesting you say that, if you remember i stopped taking AI for about 2 months and my E2 shot up big time, maybe letting my E2 shoot up made it worse!

**zaggahamma** · 07-11-2012, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by bass

thanks for the info MI, WOW 6.1 down to 1.4! big drop.

i don't have ED problem, my libido is perfect, not too crazy when i was on 200 mgs ew, will it increase my libido? is it RX?

interesting you say that, if you remember i stopped taking AI for about 2 months and my E2 shot up big time, maybe letting my E2 shoot up made it worse!

well u already know that poor e is more responsible for the dreaded C...most of us been around here know that

but it is good to know that trt doesnt cause it

**Brazensol** · 07-11-2012, 12:09 PM

I remember reading more than once that your PSA score will increase from baseline to a new baseline after starting TRT. Mine has always been .25 or less but after ~2months on gel my reading from 9 Jul was .33. I have had several PSA tests in the last 5 years or so because my father had prostate cancer so I can see mine is trending up. Where it wil stop I don't know but as of now I am not concerned. Something else I seem to remember (not as sure though) is that gels caused a higher rise then injectables...

**Times Roman** · 07-11-2012, 12:55 PM

I've been reading articles that the PSA test does more harm than good. Reason is due to false positives that triggers biopsies unnecessarilly, and the sides that come from removing tissue from your prostate.

The reading continues that one would be better off with avoiding the PSA and relying on DRE instead.

....and the contraversy continues!

**Brazensol** · 07-11-2012, 02:43 PM

I don't know if it causes more harm than good. It should not be the end all be all for cancer detection but instead used as a useful tool along with DRE's and more if required. The DRE does not access the whole prostate gland so it is not fool proof either.

**kelkel** · 07-11-2012, 09:13 PM

Bass, yes it's RX or overseas pharmacy. Most insurances cover it for daily use. Many benefits far beyond erectile issues. BPH, Nitric Oxide booster, etc.

**bass** · 07-11-2012, 10:35 PM

thanks Kel! any known sides to keep an eye on?

**MuscleInk** · 07-11-2012, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

I've been reading articles that the PSA test does more harm than good. Reason is due to false positives that triggers biopsies unnecessarilly, and the sides that come from removing tissue from your prostate.

The reading continues that one would be better off with avoiding the PSA and relying on DRE instead.

....and the contraversy continues!

Yes it's very controversial. I work in the oncology space and we generally feel PSA velocity is more predictive of PCa than absolute PSA but even still PSA velocity is imperfect.

DREs are good, unfortunately they don't effectively measure the anterior horns of the prostate so any abnormal growths would be missed. TRUS is a better measure but usually not the first diagnostic for a differential diagnosis.

To give you an idea of how unpredictable PSA really is, I've seen patients with PSAs less than 6 have positive biopsies for cancer and others greater than 12 have negative biopsies. I even had one elderly gentleman with a PSA of 500 and have a negative biopsy!!!! The PSA alone would have implied absolute cancer but the biopsy disputed the PSA.

Go figure!?!?!

**kelkel** · 07-12-2012, 06:57 AM

No more than any other medicine Bass. Hell, aspirin would be a controlled substance if it just came out now. If you read the possible side effects of Vit C you'd be amazed.

http://www.cialis.com/Pages/side-effects.aspx?WT.srch=1