Been prescribed 400mg Cyp every 14 days

[Pale1]

That's how the doc prescribed it. 1 injection every 14 days. But I see most of you guys on here talking about making weekly injections. Would that be the better route? 200mg/week?

[bass]

Absolutly. Half life is 5-7 days. That is a high dose btw, spliting into twice a week is even better. I hope you got AIs!

[Pale1]

What AI's & dosages would you recomend bass?

[Pale1]

Thanks, BTW!

[Brickhouse]

200mg every 7 days mate......14 days is to long and that is a large dose to be given every 14 days.

AI......In simple terms mate basically stops your Estrogen levels raising as many suffer when their Testosterone is boosted up via AAS their Estrogen (E2) levels start to raise due to the overload in Test' going in to the body. Most common AI is Arimidex , very very strong drug.

[kelkel]

Even 200 per week is probably to high to start. That is really the upper end of TRT. Your always better starting off lower and titrating up based on blood work if at all possible. Easier to avoid sides/issues that way. And yes, your doc is lost with his dosage and is a good indicator that you should begin to look for another as no doubt he make more mistakes along the way. Like Bass said, did he even talk to you about an AI? Or HCG for that matter? Your going to have some serious spikes in your E level after that type of dosage. More is not better in TRT. The less you can use to obtain optimal levels, the better you are long term.

If he is letting you self-inject then I would strongly suggest you go back to 100mg per week and get BW done in about 6 weeks and adjust from there. Pull the blood one day prior to injection or the morning of, before you inject, to see trough levels. Obviously you'll be stocking up on T which is never a bad thing in our world.

Fill us in a little more on exactly what got you here please....And welcome to the site. Be sure to read the stickies and self-educate. You are your own best advocate here and unless your doc is willing to adapt you will be looking for a new one soon.

[JAMIE07652]

Kelkel , I was put on 200 Mgs a week and after 9 months reduced My dosage to 160mgs . I notice no difference at the lower dose ( 3 months now ) im still tip top !

[kelkel]

^^And getting better every day, right!

[Pale1]

Even 200 per week is probably to high to start. That is really the upper end of TRT. Your always better starting off lower and titrating up based on blood work if at all possible. Easier to avoid sides/issues that way. And yes, your doc is lost with his dosage and is a good indicator that you should begin to look for another as no doubt he make more mistakes along the way. Like Bass said, did he even talk to you about an AI? Or HCG for that matter? Your going to have some serious spikes in your E level after that type of dosage. More is not better in TRT. The less you can use to obtain optimal levels, the better you are long term.

If he is letting you self-inject then I would strongly suggest you go back to 100mg per week and get BW done in about 6 weeks and adjust from there. Pull the blood one day prior to injection or the morning of, before you inject, to see trough levels. Obviously you'll be stocking up on T which is never a bad thing in our world.

Fill us in a little more on exactly what got you here please....And welcome to the site. Be sure to read the stickies and self-educate. You are your own best advocate here and unless your doc is willing to adapt you will be looking for a new one soon.

Long story short: I had originally gone to him requesting a script of HCG only, as I had self medicated with it before as a stand-alone & it got my T levels up into the high normal range all by itself, no T needed. However, I had (for a period) become unable to get any more HCG, hence I went to him requesting a script. He would not write me a script for HCG but was willing to give me a prescription of Cyp. So......

When he put me on it, he was sticking me & then having me come back 2 weeks later, goal being to have me right at the low end of normal 2 weeks post injection. That's how we came to the 400 mg every 2 weeks dosage. I am self injecting now.

So kelkel, if I inject once a week & then pull blood the day before my next injection is due as you suggest, what kind of T levels am I looking for? mid range or low-normal? I think he would have no problem with me trying this method.

Also, you look great in your avatar. Were you able to build that with HRT levels only?

[bass]

Kel is a retired bodybuilder, of course he looks great, and he is 54 BTW, amazing eh! to answer your question regarding levels at 100 mgs per week i am guessing it will be at 600-1000 depending what protocol you use. i inject 27 mgs eod along with 200 iu hCG eod in between and my total T is above 800 and my free is above normal. everyone is different, some show 1100 on total test injecting 100 mgs ew!

[kelkel]

Thanks Bass. I would hope for mid range levels at that point. You don't want a "roller coaster" effect where you feel good early on the crap for a few days before your injection. You need to be consistent with when you pull blood. Otherwise, how can you realistically chart things out? That question brings me to my protocol as well as a few others here which may interest you as it leads to incredibly stable levels. I personally inject 60mg every 3.5 days and do HCG at 250 IU every M-W-F. I do not need any AI at this level but most do.

Thanks for the compliment Pale. To further what Bass said, I stopped competing and all AAS usage in 89 as I had a govt job and would not risk a pension for a trophy. But training and diet have never changed, it's a lifestyle I love. Reflecting back, the amounts of AAS I did back in the day actually equals a high end TRT dosage today. It does not compare to what people do now for competitions, etc. Crazy amounts! Never touched it again until TRT called my name a couple years ago and I landed on this board, thank god!

You will learn alot here Pale, stick around. Good people and you'll make good friends.

[Pale1]

With all the shitty people out there, it's always a breath of fresh air to find people so willing to help someone who they have never met & from whom they will get nothing in return. Thanks both of you.

Jesus Christ bass, every other day!? & kelkel twice a week!? Not sure I'd be willing to pin myself twice a week! But not doubting that you get better results with that method either. I think I'm going to try your original suggestion of 100mg/week first for 6 weeks, along with 250IU's 2x/week as bass suggested. Will check blood at the 6 week mark.

Thanks again fellas

[bass]

you're welcome! its not that bad really, it takes 2-3 minutes and its painless.

[kelkel]

Pale let me suggest 25 or 27 ga 1" pins. 27 may be harder to find especially if by script. Then get 18 gauge tips to use just for loading purposes (can be re-used.) You'll barely feel the injection. And once a week is a great place to start with your protocol. Then you can change as you learn how your body reacts if you so choose. Make sure you get proper BW. It's in the stickies.

Oh, and nothing is expected in return. We've all been pretty much where you are now in one way, shape or form. Just keep learning and pay it forward.

Keep us posted!

[Pale1]

I'll give that a try. I've been using 21ga, thought that was the smallest I could go b/c of the thickness of the cyp.

[Rwy]

Not trying to thread jack but what dose of hcg and au do most trt users take?

I thought extended periods of time on hcg is bad for you

[kelkel]

21 ga! OMG that's a harpoon. As stated 25-27 ga, 1". But buy extra 18 ga tips JUST for loading.

Rwy protocols are individually tailored. One size does not fit all. Avg HCG may be 250 IU x 2 or 3 per week. Your not going to desensitize anything at such low doses. AI has to be determined by repetitive bloodwork with a sensitive E2 assay. Less is more with an AI.

[sparverius]

I do twice a week using 31ga 1/2" insulin needles. I have low body fat so that's IM. You can load through a needle that small. It takes about a minute.

[bass]

I do twice a week using 31ga 1/2" insulin needles. I have low body fat so that's IM. You can load through a needle that small. It takes about a minute.

Try 28g. X 1/2 slin pin, much faster to load and inject.

[lovbyts]

I load with a 21, fairly quick and pin with a 25 - 27g. Pins are cheap.

[Bio-Active]

I use a 21 to draw and switch the pin to 23 1 inch to pin with cause i am fairly lean. Some choose to use 1.5 for glut injections.

[Pale1]

Well, I ended up going with 120 mg 1x weekly, with 250 I.U.'s hcg 2 & 1 days before test injection. This put my free T right in the high/ normal range 7 days post injection. I use DIM, avena sativa, nettle root & saw palmetto daily as well, & I see no signs of an estrogen issue, so I never got that one checked. Strength gains & fat loss have been excellent, I've got some progress pic's saved on my computer I'll get up when I get back in town (cruising around Thailand right now).

I'm now thinking about splitting up my injection into 2 weekly as many of you are doing. I guess what I would do is just split the dose in 1/2 along with 250 I.U.'s of hcg 1 day before T injection only. So essentially, nothing about my weekly dosage will change at all, just even out the peaks & valleys a little more. Does that sound about right?

[lovbyts]

Well, I ended up going with 120 mg 1x weekly, with 250 I.U.'s hcg 2 & 1 days before test injection. This put my free T right in the high/ normal range 7 days post injection. I use DIM, avena sativa, nettle root & saw palmetto daily as well, & I see no signs of an estrogen issue, so I never got that one checked. Strength gains & fat loss have been excellent, I've got some progress pic's saved on my computer I'll get up when I get back in town (cruising around Thailand right now).

I'm now thinking about splitting up my injection into 2 weekly as many of you are doing. I guess what I would do is just split the dose in 1/2 along with 250 I.U.'s of hcg 1 day before T injection only. So essentially, nothing about my weekly dosage will change at all, just even out the peaks & valleys a little more. Does that sound about right?

BIOTCH!!! Say hello to Larry at Secrets Bar, Nightclub & Hotel on Soi 14 on Walking street if you are down that way. I'm way over due for a vacation. Some good people (older) hang out in that bar. Not your typical fly by night crowd and they serve up good food. Girls are 1st class also.

Oh yeah, sounds like you got a good handle on things now. Glad it's all working out.

[Pale1]

I will be down that way! Here for a month, going to Bangkok this Thursday to spend a few days, so I'll check him out. Thanks, that makes my bar selection a lot easier!

[lovbyts]

I will be down that way! Here for a month, going to Bangkok this Thursday to spend a few days, so I'll check him out. Thanks, that makes my bar selection a lot easier!

LOTS of bars to enjoy and experience. You could spend 3 months there and visit 5 bars a night and not even come close to visiting them all... But as for the bigger, nicer clubs/bars I would put it up there as probably the best for a place with great food, excellent choice, friendly non aggressive girls and honestly a place you could even take a significant other if she was not closed minded. Nothing skanky going on. They also have reasonable prices clean room available. No I'm not getting any kick backs. lol Just an honest evaluation.

I have been to quite a few bars there and most all of them have their own type of charm so to speak depending on what you are looking for at the time. It's always fun taking a girl into the ice room for a couple of shots at the Vodka Ice bar at V20 on walking street. I also liked Living dolls for a nice place low pressure place with a good view so to speak as well as little darlings across the street. They are on the other end of walking street from Secrets. AngleWitch puts on a good show several times a night that is free. The place is more like a circus act with a little erotic thrown in than a bar.

If it's your first time best plan is not to make any plans. I was told this several times but I still had a list/itinerary of what I was going to do and when. I forgot the whole thing 15 minutes after arriving and every plan I had changed 100x over.

[Juced_porkchop]

I think its too high and too far apart. DEFF atleast 1X a week, and maybe sty 100-150mg ew first and go for blood work in a few months.
but i DONT think 400mg e2w is very smart.

as for pins ia rec 23g to pin and draw or 25g to pin.

[kelkel]

Well, I ended up going with 120 mg 1x weekly, with 250 I.U.'s hcg 2 & 1 days before test injection. This put my free T right in the high/ normal range 7 days post injection. I use DIM, avena sativa, nettle root & saw palmetto daily as well, & I see no signs of an estrogen issue, so I never got that one checked. Strength gains & fat loss have been excellent, I've got some progress pic's saved on my computer I'll get up when I get back in town (cruising around Thailand right now).

I'm now thinking about splitting up my injection into 2 weekly as many of you are doing. I guess what I would do is just split the dose in 1/2 along with 250 I.U.'s of hcg 1 day before T injection only. So essentially, nothing about my weekly dosage will change at all, just even out the peaks & valleys a little more. Does that sound about right?

Gyno is not the only sign of high estrogen. Some people can have unbelievably high E levels and never get gyno. Get an E2 sensitive assay on your next BW. Yes, your new protocol sounds fine.

[bass]

definitely much better protocol. keep us posted on your progress.

[Pale1]

LOTS of bars to enjoy and experience. You could spend 3 months there and visit 5 bars a night and not even come close to visiting them all... But as for the bigger, nicer clubs/bars I would put it up there as probably the best for a place with great food, excellent choice, friendly non aggressive girls and honestly a place you could even take a significant other if she was not closed minded. Nothing skanky going on. They also have reasonable prices clean room available. No I'm not getting any kick backs. lol Just an honest evaluation.

I have been to quite a few bars there and most all of them have their own type of charm so to speak depending on what you are looking for at the time. It's always fun taking a girl into the ice room for a couple of shots at the Vodka Ice bar at V20 on walking street. I also liked Living dolls for a nice place low pressure place with a good view so to speak as well as little darlings across the street. They are on the other end of walking street from Secrets. AngleWitch puts on a good show several times a night that is free. The place is more like a circus act with a little erotic thrown in than a bar.

If it's your first time best plan is not to make any plans. I was told this several times but I still had a list/itinerary of what I was going to do and when. I forgot the whole thing 15 minutes after arriving and every plan I had changed 100x over.

Not my first time but was more rushed last time & couldn't really take it all in. My wife is With me, & she is Thai so she knows the deal with the women. She's pretty cool about things, she knows I'm not going anywhere. She even encouraged me to go watch one of those weird sex shows last time, but honestly that's not my thing at all so I had no interest in doing it.

Now, with that being said, she ain't stupid either! We stopped in Tak (not far from Burma) for a night, & stayed in this beautiful old hotel ($25/ night!), & they had, as many hotels do, advertised Thai massages. She called to schedule massages for both of us, but specified that we are to have our massages in the same room, at the same time, LOL! It was weird b/c we go downstairs to the massage area, & they have about 4 girls who were very professional looking masseuses, but they were sitting behind a mirrored glass. Nice looking ladies but did not look like prostitutes at all. Well, we went back to the room & got our massages, everything went without incident. BUT, when we left the massage room & walked back past that mirrored glass, there was a room full of guys in there gawking at about 8 beautiful girls very scantily dressed behind the glass. I mean there was no question about what those girls were there to do, & these girls were 8's - 10's too! They timed it so that when we showed up, only the legit masseuses were there to be seen! Brilliant! Gotta love Thailand! Needless to say, when we got back up to our room, it wasn't long before my wife was reaping the full benefits of those 120 mg's of weekly Test!

Have you been to Chiang Mai? We spent a few days there, & I gotta say as far as the night life goes, & dining for that matter, I enjoyed it a lot more than my time in Bangkok last go round. Just a different type of vibe that seemed to fit my temperament a lot better. You gotta spend a little time there when you go back. Book a flight from Bangkok to save you all that driving time, the inter-Thai flights are really cheap if booked well in advance.

[Pale1]

definitely much better protocol. keep us posted on your progress.

Thanks Bass, I'd be lost in the wilderness without you guys.

[Pale1]

Gyno is not the only sign of high estrogen. Some people can have unbelievably high E levels and never get gyno. Get an E2 sensitive assay on your next BW. Yes, your new protocol sounds fine.

I will Kel, thanks for keeping me on track. I love my doc, but he's more lost than I am in this area. So the exact wording that I use is that "I would like to get an E2 sensitive assay"? Is that correct? Or do I just ask to have estradiol levels checked? Are they two different things?

[lovbyts]

Not my first time but was more rushed last time & couldn't really take it all in. My wife is With me, & she is Thai so she knows the deal with the women. She's pretty cool about things, she knows I'm not going anywhere. She even encouraged me to go watch one of those weird sex shows last time, but honestly that's not my thing at all so I had no interest in doing it.

Now, with that being said, she ain't stupid either! We stopped in Tak (not far from Burma) for a night, & stayed in this beautiful old hotel ($25/ night!), & they had, as many hotels do, advertised Thai massages. She called to schedule massages for both of us, but specified that we are to have our massages in the same room, at the same time, LOL! It was weird b/c we go downstairs to the massage area, & they have about 4 girls who were very professional looking masseuses, but they were sitting behind a mirrored glass. Nice looking ladies but did not look like prostitutes at all. Well, we went back to the room & got our massages, everything went without incident. BUT, when we left the massage room & walked back past that mirrored glass, there was a room full of guys in there gawking at about 8 beautiful girls very scantily dressed behind the glass. I mean there was no question about what those girls were there to do, & these girls were 8's - 10's too! They timed it so that when we showed up, only the legit masseuses were there to be seen! Brilliant! Gotta love Thailand! Needless to say, when we got back up to our room, it wasn't long before my wife was reaping the full benefits of those 120 mg's of weekly Test!

Have you been to Chiang Mai? We spent a few days there, & I gotta say as far as the night life goes, & dining for that matter, I enjoyed it a lot more than my time in Bangkok last go round. Just a different type of vibe that seemed to fit my temperament a lot better. You gotta spend a little time there when you go back. Book a flight from Bangkok to save you all that driving time, the inter-Thai flights are really cheap if booked well in advance.

No I had planned on going to Chiang Mai on my next trip but after hooking up with my significant other who is from Philippines I have been banned from Thailand. I event tried to get her to go due to the gem/diamond district but she will have nothing to do with it. lol I stayed about 1 block from the Gem district in BKK on one trip. That area is a trip. it's like a bunch of small candy stores but instead of bins full of jelly beans it bins full of Gems.

I have taken my GF/Thai and Thai friends who were girls in for couples massage at various places with no hanky panky so to speak. lol Have you dont a Soapy massage? You have to do it at least 1x. VERY good/clean fun but your girl may not approve. She will like Secrets I'm sure. Like I said, it's one of the few places in Pattaya you can take family even kids without having to worry.

The Philippines has a lot more massage than Thailand or should I say a lot more professional massage and they actually do a better job IMO but if you are looking for a little more that is also still easy to find and even the professional places get more than a little friendly most of the time. I'm trying to figure out how I can get a separate passport so when I'm in Philippines I can slip over to Thailand for a couple of days to say hello to some friends. hehehe I actually did that on one of my last trips but I screwed up and instead of being there for just under 48 hrs It was just under 24 due to me screwing up using UTC/24hr time.

I cant think of a better place to retire than Thailand of Philippines when you can get a massage for 1hr + tea, sauna and more all for $7-$9 including tip. Fresh fruit, seafood and a large variety of food not to mention lovely dark skinned beauties who are very friendly and always smiling.

I have been to Phuket for 10 days once with my GF at the time recovering from back surgery. GREAT place to recover and sure beat being home in 40 deg weather where it was raining 24/7. Also nice having a bedside nurse 24/7 who was also 24 at the time. great motivation to get out and exercise and recover.

[Pale1]

Well, don't think I'll be saying hello to Larry :/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/...rrest-pattaya/

[Pale1]

I could totally see myself retiring in Thailand. Problem is, I don't feel like waiting till I retire (i'm 37). Like I said, I really fell in love with Chiang Mai this time. I could see myself going over there & opening up a little restaurant on the strip. Rent my house out (which I own free & clear) back in the states. Feel like if I wait till I'm old, it would be almost pointless. What stops me is that I have a pretty nice job (IMO) back in the states & also that my wife is a CPA. Neither of us would be able to come close to our current income level in Thailand & I just feel like I would be doing something foolish.

You know, I've tried to identify just what it is that I love so much about Thailand, & I think I've got it. It's a feeling of freedom. In the U.S., there is a law, code, or ordinance that dictates nearly every aspect of our lives. I don't get that feeling in Thailand. Of course there is a down side to that too, so it's definitely not for everyone. What we have done in the U.S. is to exchange our freedom for security.

[juice2012]

After watching a Thai prison documentary I will never set foot in that country. Their drug policy makes the US look like Amsterdam.

[lovbyts]

Well, don't think I'll be saying hello to Larry :/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/...rrest-pattaya/

LOL that was a total BS typical Thai Tea money issue. He is not in trouble and it's nothing like they made it sound to be. Larry is a good guy and runs one of the cleanest straight up places there is. If some idiot customer hit on an underage girl and she accepted then he should be charged, no Larry. They bust the balls of one of the Foreign own bar owners ever few weeks just to make it look like they are doing something and typically it's just before some politician is going to be visiting the area to make a good impression.

I like one of the comments someone made. Busting a Pattaya bar for having working girls is like giving people speeding tickets at the indy 500.

I know what you mean and no one can understand unless you have been there. I did a lot of research before I went the first time and even took Thai lessons for a couple of months before my trip. There is just something about the place that pulls the heart strings about the same as a 1st love in high school and leaving is like breaking up.

[lovbyts]

After watching a Thai prison documentary I will never set foot in that country. Their drug policy makes the US look like Amsterdam.

Good choice if you are thinking about doing drugs. They dont need any more of that BS than there already is and I think capital punishment is a good deterrent.
Dont do drugs, dont be a stupid/angry drunk, dont disrespect any other Thai or the king and you are fine. BTW if you ever decide to fight a Thai you will fight the village and you will loose. Only time you should fight a Thai is inside a ring.

[Pale1]

I have also heard that they are extremely hard on drug offenders. Apparently it is frowned down upon more than murder. Not really an issue for me.

I did read the book "Welcome to Hell", a British guys account of his several years in Yard Lau Prison. That is for sure one of the last places I'd want to end up!

[lovbyts]

The laws or at least the enforcement of them are constantly changing also. Just like aas use. Most all the pharmacies use to carry anything you might be looking for but now or at least sometimes they seem to be less open about it unless they know you a little. As far as I know there are still local doctors who have no problem selling and even managing your cycle but as for other drugs, yes I have heard they are quite harsh on Thai and tourist alike.

Never been an issue for me either so no worries. One thing to watch for though is dont be flashy in any way. No jewlery or you may become the next victom of a Thai scooter snatch and grab.

[TennTarheel]

Sounds like a fun place I don't want to go