Is 500 iu's 3xweek hCG protocal too much?

[TraceMYD]

Hey there.. would be great to get some feedback and opinions on
the hCG dosage.

My doc just wrote the script for me to get on hCG
It's 10,000iu's
500iu's 3xweek (Mon. Wed. Fri.)

My Current TRT:
250mg test E week (Tuesday)
AI Anastrozole .25 EOD


After reading the Sticky thread about hCG.
I was under the impressing that 250IU of hCG two days before and one day before
their next testosterone injection would be the most ideal amount.

Does 500iu's 3x week seem like too much?

Also, could taking the hCG create more of anabolic effect with Muscle growth?
I have already put on about 20pounds of muscle/bodyweight since starting
the TRT with just the 250mg of test E.

I'm only 5'7 and weighing 197-200lbs with abs, 35y/o
I don't want to add anymore weight, in-fact I would rather lose weight to
get around 170 lbs. I eat alow carb diet, but my body just wants to keep on
wanting me to stay at 197 with less bodyfat.

I do crossfit 4-5xweek and literally kill myself every workout.

Thanks Trace MYD

[steroid.com 1]

Anything over 500iu can have impact on increased intratesticular E2 which an AI is largely in effective in controlling.

Also, you stand a chance of desensitizing the receptors on you lydeg cells making your protocol far less effective.

1500iu a week is a lot to be honest with you and if you were Secondary Hypogonadal you will get an increase in endogenous test as well.

[TraceMYD]

Anything over 500iu can have impact on increased intratesticular E2 which an AI is largely in effective in controlling.

Also, you stand a chance of desensitizing the receptors on you lydeg cells making your protocol far less effective.

1500iu a week is a lot to be honest with you and if you were Secondary Hypogonadal you will get an increase in endogenous test as well.

Would I be able to tell if I was secondary hypogonadal by looking at my original blood work before i got on TRT?

[steroid.com 1]

^^^Yes.

Look at LH and FSH; if they are extraordinarily low it points poor HPTA performance = Secondary.

High LH and FSH and low Test levels points to Primary.

[TraceMYD]

^^^Yes.

Look at LH and FSH; if they are extraordinarily low it points poor HPTA performance = Secondary.

High LH and FSH and low Test levels points to Primary.

I'm not seeing LH and FSH on my blood work papers. Maybe i'm overlooking it somewhere.. is there a way to show you pics of my blood work in a private message?

[Jake14]

My doctor also prescribes 500IU every other day. I talked to him about 250 and he said that is too low. He is an MD at a major medical school. i guess there are varying opinions. I do about 300 or 350 (when I don't forget to refrigerate the HCG ...that is a reference to my last post).

[MickeyKnox]

there are studies (ill try to dig them up) that show hcg aromatizes when dosed over 500iu, meaning estrogen sides are likely to occur.

[TraceMYD]

there are studies (ill try to dig them up) that show hcg aromatizes when dosed over 500iu, meaning estrogen sides are likely to occur.

Do you mean 500iu a week or day?

[funkymonk]

My doctor also prescribes 500IU every other day. I talked to him about 250 and he said that is too low. He is an MD at a major medical school. i guess there are varying opinions. I do about 300 or 350 (when I don't forget to refrigerate the HCG...that is a reference to my last post).

Bingo. 5 doctors I've been to have never heard of hCG , and another thinks that it only "works" in 5000iu doses (at once). I hate to say this when it comes to your hormones and body, but try it and see if it works. I'm finding some success with 250iu 2x a week

[HRTstudent]

There is good evidence showing that lower doses than 500IU may be effective.

Keep in mind, this is new research. Unless a person is particularly interested in this field of medicine then it will take time for this new research to be a) even heard about and b) recommended.

Get blood work and monitor yourself though to find out if something or the other is best for YOU.

[steroid.com 1]

Think about it....

Does your Pituitary gland push out LH in these elevated quantities in such duration...?

What's more natural?

[TraceMYD]

Does hcg have a anabolic effect to it when adding it to TRT?

I'm really concerned about adding even more muscle.. Last thing i want is to gain more muscle.

At 5'7 197-200lbs I'm getting close to be as wide as i am tall lol

[funkymonk]

Does hcg have a anabolic effect to it when adding it to TRT?

I'm really concerned about adding even more muscle.. Last thing i want is to gain more muscle.

At 5'7 197-200lbs I'm getting close to be as wide as i am tall lol

I wouldn't worry about it. You can always reduce your amount of cyp/gel accordingly.

[steroid.com 1]

Does hcg have a anabolic effect to it when adding it to TRT?

I'm really concerned about adding even more muscle.. Last thing i want is to gain more muscle.

At 5'7 197-200lbs I'm getting close to be as wide as i am tall lol

Read the sticky on hCG...the end result is anabolic but I wouldn't worry about more muscle mass.

hCG keeps the testicles functioning thereby keeping HPTA intact...and much much more.

[Rwy]

^^^Yes.

Look at LH and FSH; if they are extraordinarily low it points poor HPTA performance = Secondary.

High LH and FSH and low Test levels points to Primary.

Will this effect the possibility of having children?

[Renholder]

Does 500iu's 3x week seem like too much?

As you`ve already noticed in this thread, there is a wide variety of opinions on both dosage and frequency of injections.

If used as an adjunct to TRT, I do think 3X 500 IU is twice as much as you need. 3X 500 IU seems like a common protocol for HCG monotherapy.

Why do you kill yourself 5 times per week? Sure you`re not overdoing it?

[steroid.com 1]

Will this effect the possibility of having children?

Without question = Low to no sperm production.

[EZ E]

250IU 3x/week has worked for me for almost 2 years now. The boys are still normal size.

[Vettester]

250IU 3x/week has worked for me for almost 2 years now. The boys are still normal size.

Same here, and that dosage will mimic and provide a more stable and balanced pattern to the testicles, as GD referenced in post #11.

[steroid.com 1]

250IU 3x/week has worked for me for almost 2 years now. The boys are still normal size.

Ditto for me as well.

[TraceMYD]

250IU 3x/week has worked for me for almost 2 years now. The boys are still normal size.

I'm not really concerned about the visual aspect of my boys being shrunk..

Other then your boys being "normal size" can you feel or notice a difference from being on it?
What would you say are the most noticeable benefits from being on it for 2 years.

Also did you do TRT without hcg ? If so, did you have to adjust your TEST dosages after starting hcg?

thanks

[TraceMYD]

Can someone share any article that specifically explains what "HCG monotherapy." is?

I read the sticky and I don't specifically see it mentioned are referred to "HCG monotherapy"

Thanks

[steroid.com 1]

Hypogonadotropic hypogonadism treated with HCG monotherapy: report of 3 cases].

[Article in Japanese]

Mukouyama H, Hatano T, Ogawa Y, Shimabukuro H, Yamakawa K, Nashiro F, Touyama H, Miyazato T, Sugaya K, Koyama Y.


Source

Department of Urology, University of Ryukyus School of Medicine.


Abstract

We report 3 cases of hypogonadotropic hypogonadism and the effects of human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG) monotherapy on plasma testosterone levels , which were related to clinical results. The patients were males 29, 21 and 14 years old. Each received 5,000 units of HCG subcutaneously or intramuscularly twice or three times a week for 16 to 40 months. Genital effects, including an increase in testicular volume were seen in all patients after 2 or 3 months. The increase in plasma testosterone level after HCG therapy was significantly correlated with the genital effects similarly to other treatments. Moreover, spermatozoa appeared in one case.

[Rwy]

Without question = Low to no sperm production.

Mine is on the low side of the range. So i am assuming that at my age even though with in the labs range I am way too low. This really worries me.

[Renholder]

Can someone share any article that specifically explains what "HCG monotherapy." is?

I read the sticky and I don't specifically see it mentioned are referred to "HCG monotherapy"

Thanks

HCG monotherapy is a treatment protocol that may be successful if you have secondary hypogonadism. With this condition, your testicles are functional, but is not receiving the proper signals (LH) from the brain to produce ample amounts of testosterone . HCG is a LH analogue and mimicks the effect of LH, stimulating your testicles to produce testosterone naturally.

With HCG monotherapy, you are using only HCG and nothing else, hence the name monotherapy. Most people here seem to use HCG as an adjunct to their TRT protocol (exogenous testosterone). Some people have great results from HCG and prefer it over TRT.

Personally, HCG boosted my testosterone considerably (I had low LH/FSH) after only two weeks, but I noticed no differences in the size of my nuts or well-being, so I was surprised to see that it actually worked.

[Rwy]

so hcg can raise your LH/FSH which can help with having children

[Renholder]

so hcg can raise your LH/FSH which can help with having children

No, it shut downs your LH/FSH production, but still promotes spermatogenesis. You may have to add FSH though.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12444893

Another option is to try clomiphene when you want to conceive, which "tricks" your body into producing LH/FSH on it`s own.

[TraceMYD]

No, it shut downs your LH/FSH production, but still promotes spermatogenesis. You may have to add FSH though.


Another option is to try clomiphene when you want to conceive, which "tricks" your body into producing LH/FSH on it`s own.

So basically even though it increases your spematogenesis, it doesn't necessarily
mean that your chances for getting your partner pregnant are any better while on hcg ?
Compared to if you was just on Testosterone injections without hcg.

Side note* I went and got my sperm frozen before I started TRT(just as a precaution)... the clinic
said my sperm count was low and i ended up having to make a few trips to get enough frozen.


Has anyone on TRT had success getting your partner pregnant after adding Hcg?

Just wondering because I'm unable to get my partner pregnent while just on my testosterone injections.

[Renholder]

So basically even though it increases your spematogenesis, it doesn't necessarily
mean that your chances for getting your partner pregnant are any better while on hcg ?
Compared to if you was just on Testosterone injections without hcg.

Side note* I went and got my sperm frozen before I started TRT(just as a precaution)... the clinic
said my sperm count was low and i ended up having to make a few trips to get enough frozen.


Has anyone on TRT had success getting your partner pregnant after adding Hcg?

Just wondering because I'm unable to get my partner pregnent while just on my testosterone injections.

How long have you been on TRT? I`ve heard of people who`ve been successful conceiving while using only exogenous testosterone, but I think it is very individual and I suppose it depends on how long you`ve been using it. I do believe the long-term outlook using only testosterone is infertility, although it is often reversible. Using HCG from the start will prevent your testicles from shutting down in the first place.

You may be successful if you now add HCG to your injection protocol, but I`ve heard people who quit exogenous testosterone completely until they have conceived. Some go with HCG and some try clomiphene. For fertility purposes, you may have to amp up the doses compared to what you would be using on normal monotherapy or in combination with TRT which is even lower.

Read this link. I only skimmed it, but seemed relevant to you:

http://www.uptodate.com/contents/ind...y-hypogonadism

[TraceMYD]

How long have you been on TRT? I`ve heard of people who`ve been successful conceiving while using only exogenous testosterone , but I think it is very individual and I suppose it depends on how long you`ve been using it. I do believe the long-term outlook using only testosterone is infertility, although it is often reversible. Using HCG from the start will prevent your testicles from shutting down in the first place.

You may be successful if you now add HCG to your injection protocol, but I`ve heard people who quit exogenous testosterone completely until they have conceived. Some go with HCG and some try clomiphene. For fertility purposes, you may have to amp up the doses compared to what you would be using on normal monotherapy or in combination with TRT which is even lower.

Read this link. I only skimmed it, but seemed relevant to you:

Thanks for that Info.

I have been TRT since Feb 2012.

Unfortunately I didn't start using hcg from the start..I just took my first shot of it today.

I was given the option to take hcg from the beginning but opted out because I wanted to
see how I responded to the Testosterone first.


I'm glad i did wait though because it did take a while to iron out all the kinks just from
the Testosterone shots...

Now that I feel pretty stable with the Testosterone shots, I feel like now is the time
to introduce the hcg.. My doc is pretty good about it and I knew he would work with me when the
time came.

One thing I wouldn't be so thrilled about would be coming completely off testosterone shots to
become fertile again. So hopefully that doesn't happen as yall probably know stabilizing your hormones
isn't the easiest thing to do.

[Renholder]

If you started in February 2012, I`d say you just got started. There are people who have been on TRT for years, who managed to restore their testicle size/function with HCG , it simply takes more time. You`ve got nothing to worry about.

Maybe you should print out that article and discuss it with your doctor?

How important is it to conceive RIGHT now?

If it is not urgent, maybe you can first try simply adding HCG to your current protocol and give it a few months? Doses would probably need to be higher than for TRT purposes though. I imagine at least 500 IU 3X weekly. Possibly even more, at least in the beginning. Doses for fertility purposes seems to be far higher than with TRT and is not intended for long-term use.

If not successful, I suppose you could try adding clomiphene to the mix or possibly clomiphene instead of HCG for a while.

Last resort I suppose, would be to go of exogenous testosterone completely.

Bear in mind that I`m simply an amateur in this field, but this is what I would have tried.

Good luck.

Thanks for that Info.

I have been TRT since Feb 2012.

Unfortunately I didn't start using hcg from the start..I just took my first shot of it today.

I was given the option to take hcg from the beginning but opted out because I wanted to
see how I responded to the Testosterone first.


I'm glad i did wait though because it did take a while to iron out all the kinks just from
the Testosterone shots...

Now that I feel pretty stable with the Testosterone shots, I feel like now is the time
to introduce the hcg.. My doc is pretty good about it and I knew he would work with me when the
time came.

One thing I wouldn't be so thrilled about would be coming completely off testosterone shots to
become fertile again. So hopefully that doesn't happen as yall probably know stabilizing your hormones
isn't the easiest thing to do.

[TraceMYD]

Well, I'm On my third shot of starting 500iu 3xweek MWF HCG Protocol

I can tell my body is going through some adjustments.. by the fact that
my energy level seems to drop off real quick..or if i get tired
I need to take a nap + I'm sleeping more hours too.

My libido is stronger but more intense