Thread: Ai

**MRNJ1992** · 08-31-2012, 04:37 PM

Is an AI always necessary when on HRT?

**kelkel** · 08-31-2012, 05:43 PM

Predominantly yes, but not always. I do not need one as my E runs low at 15-16 on my TRT dose of 60mg every 3.5 days and HCG . The majority though do need a small dose of an AI. Use caution as it's very easy to crash your E. Slow and steady and adjust with BW. I've actually been trying to elevate mine and bumped my T up slightly and got it in the mid twenties, where I would like it to stay. I'm doubtful though that it will hold as I've reduced T to the normal dosage, unless the recent addition of peptides help to keep it elevated via IGF1 elevation. Remains to be seen though.

**MRNJ1992** · 08-31-2012, 07:40 PM

How do you stay that lean on T? When I was on HRT always retained alot of water. I realize now it should be bi weekly. And probably a lower dose. My doc had me on 200 mgs then 300 mgs. Guess that would explain the water. In 2 years put on 30 pds-alot water. At 198 now. At your dose what are your T levels? Just curious. Thanks kel

**xtitan1** · 09-01-2012, 10:21 AM

You gained 30 pounds of water?

**steroid.com 1** · 09-01-2012, 10:45 AM

Water retention usually means elevated E2 on TRT.

I recently discontinued the use of an AI similar situation as kel's.

**LT75** · 09-01-2012, 10:54 AM

All the doctors I talked to follow the federal guideline for treatment. 100mg IM weekly or 200mg IM every 2 weeks. Strange to see such high dosage being prescribed for TRT. I do the 100mg a week and was told I didn't need a AI because of low dosage. I'm getting my blood work done next week and asked for estrogen to be checked to see. It's always good to know.

**steroid.com 1** · 09-01-2012, 11:07 AM

Make sure when they test you ask specifically for the "sensitive" assay for men or else the lab will default to thier standard Estrogen assay designed for women.

Read the sticky on Estradiol...

**LT75** · 09-01-2012, 11:17 AM

I did ask for sensitive. Actually i copied your thread on what to test and gave it to him.

**jwh7699** · 09-01-2012, 12:04 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong.

The best time to get the Estradiol Sensitive Assay test would be the day after you inject your T shot because that would be when your estrogen level would be at it's highest in proportion to your T level.

Then on day 7 you could do the test again to see how it much drops in a week, the day before your next T injection.

Best of Luck!!

**kelkel** · 09-01-2012, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by MRNJ1992

How do you stay that lean on T? When I was on HRT always retained alot of water. I realize now it should be bi weekly. And probably a lower dose. My doc had me on 200 mgs then 300 mgs. Guess that would explain the water. In 2 years put on 30 pds-alot water. At 198 now. At your dose what are your T levels? Just curious. Thanks kel

Just luck I guess. I don't seem to retain any water, never have. I run pretty much at 1300 serum. Free is at the top of the scale also but not over. Doc's happy, I'm happy.

**MRNJ1992** · 09-01-2012, 03:35 PM

Good for you...must be nice

**MRNJ1992** · 09-01-2012, 03:36 PM

lot of water.....

**MRNJ1992** · 09-01-2012, 05:45 PM

Sure its something to do with my thyroidectomy. Never had the problem prior.

**steroid.com 1** · 09-01-2012, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by jwh7699

Correct me if I'm wrong.

The best time to get the Estradiol Sensitive Assay test would be the day after you inject your T shot because that would be when your estrogen level would be at it's highest in proportion to your T level.

Then on day 7 you could do the test again to see how it much drops in a week, the day before your next T injection.

Best of Luck!!

Not correct actually, here's why; E2 serum levels don't peak and wane like Testosterone levels after injection.

We all physiologically aromatase differently but it's not like a half life of a drug and it's effect on serum levels.

Your E2 serum level do move but again nothing like a half life of a drug like Anastrozole.

**jwh7699** · 09-01-2012, 07:09 PM

Thank you for correcting me! How often should should your E2 be tested to see if you need an AI or not?

Thanks!!

**kelkel** · 09-01-2012, 09:39 PM

Every time you get your BW done. In the beginning of a TRT protocol it should be relatively frequent to monitor changes and make necessary adjustments. Why not? High or low E comes with some nasty sides that you really do not want.

**Brazensol** · 09-01-2012, 10:07 PM

I am taking 120 mgs T cyp weekly. Currently experimenting with EOD dosage and so far E2 is good. Will know more next week when new blood tests are drawn. My understanding regarding E2 is those who take less frequent/larger doses tend to have more problems with it. Also, I think, bodyfat percentages are also a factor though not sure since I am currently sitting at ~33% bodyfat (but coming down - finally!). I am only in the 60% range for total t and will talk the doc into letting me go to a higher dose. Maybe 140 mgs a week and see how that feels. I am feeling better but not where I want to just yet.

**kelkel** · 09-02-2012, 09:35 AM

Instead of increasing your T consider adding in HCG if you're not. Increased T, lower BF% = win-win.
Body fat does play a part. The aromatase enzyme lives in your skin, especially abdominal fat.

**jwh7699** · 09-02-2012, 12:30 PM

Thanks Kel!

My last test results: Estradiol, Sensitive 30 pg/ml 3 - 70 Range. How does that number look? I know everyone is different, ideally what should be your E2 number?

Thanks!!

**kelkel** · 09-02-2012, 12:35 PM

That number is probably perfect. But it should be based on how YOU feel. LEF foundation recommends between 20-30 for your E2 level.

Read this:

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2012/...ey=june%202012

**xcraider37** · 09-02-2012, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by jwh7699

Thanks Kel!

My last test results: Estradiol, Sensitive 30 pg/ml 3 - 70 Range. How does that number look? I know everyone is different, ideally what should be your E2 number?

Thanks!!

Yes 30 should be good but many including myself, bunch of folks in crislers forum do not trust the labcorp sensitive test. If you must do labcorp go with the Roche method which is there regular E2 test, just my opinion.

**MRNJ1992** · 09-02-2012, 02:59 PM

when you do hcg does it matter when-I know say mon,wed,fri at 250 iu day/nite?

**kelkel** · 09-02-2012, 04:31 PM

I don't think so at all. Crisler will recommend if your going with 1 shot per week that you do hcg both 1 and 2 days before injection. If you're injecting twice per week he has recommended the day before each. Many of us here that do the twice weekly protocol just go MWF. Simple and easy.

**jwh7699** · 09-02-2012, 05:32 PM

Thanks Kel for the great info! Sorry if I took away from your post MRNJ!

Best of Luck All!!

**HRTstudent** · 09-02-2012, 09:40 PM

Really, going on an AI should be a last resort - only if absolutely necessary. These things, mostly anastrozole is used, have nasty side effects and can be quite tricky to get right.

We also don't have the long term safety studies behind them like we do with testosterone . Id rather NOT be on an AI if I could choose.

**kelkel** · 09-02-2012, 09:48 PM

^^^^Exactly this!

**MRNJ1992** · 09-02-2012, 10:25 PM

thanks
kel

**SEOINAGE** · 09-02-2012, 11:32 PM

anyone have sides of headaches from AI? I'm discontinuing my AI for now to see if it alleviates the problem, although I love how I lost 8 lbs of water weight after starting the AI and diet changes. It will also let me know if the food i was eating contributed to the water weight, if headaches go away within a month I will know ai is possibly part of the problem, I did bw to see what 1mg was doing at least on friday.

my e2 wasn't that bad on 200 mg of test, so I can live without it, but lower e2 would be preferred, but lowering test amounts screws me and my member. and of course 200 mg keeps me 900 total and top and over free.

**jasondd1** · 09-07-2012, 08:24 AM

I thought hcg increased e? does it actually decrease it?

**jasc** · 09-07-2012, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by jasondd1

I thought hcg increased e? does it actually decrease it?

hcg can increase test production which in effect can also increase estrogen production.

**HRTstudent** · 09-09-2012, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by SEOINAGE

anyone have sides of headaches from AI? I'm discontinuing my AI for now to see if it alleviates the problem, although I love how I lost 8 lbs of water weight after starting the AI and diet changes. It will also let me know if the food i was eating contributed to the water weight, if headaches go away within a month I will know ai is possibly part of the problem, I did bw to see what 1mg was doing at least on friday.

my e2 wasn't that bad on 200 mg of test, so I can live without it, but lower e2 would be preferred, but lowering test amounts screws me and my member. and of course 200 mg keeps me 900 total and top and over free.

When I overdid it on anastrozole, I got some headache which is rare for me.

**SEOINAGE** · 09-09-2012, 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by HRTstudent

When I overdid it on anastrozole, I got some headache which is rare for me.

I'm 2 doses of AI skipped so far and pretty sure the headaches are gone. We will see how things go, hard to tell with very little sleep. Here's the weird thing about it, I had some liquidex that I took months ago, but never went on it regularly, but I swear both times I took some of it I got a headache that was similar feeling to this.