Mixing HCG dilemma

[johnyz333]

My current protocol is 1500iu 3 times weekly, I was getting the hcg in 1500iu amps. As or recent the only stock available is the 5000iu which comes with a saline solution.

From what I have read the saline is only good for 24-48hrs. I asked the pharmacy for Bac water and was given just sterile water.

Will sterile water last a full week mixed with the HCG? Its stored in the fridge...So many mixed opinions about this online...

Or is Bac water the only way to go?

[Vettester]

The thing is, my Bac water is sterile water, just has Benzyl alcohol in it. IMO, you're GTG, but do a little more research. Do you have a manufacturer name?

[johnyz333]

The thing is, my Bac water is sterile water, just has Benzyl alcohol in it. IMO, you're GTG, but do a little more research. Do you have a manufacturer name?

Thanks for the reply Vett.

The manufac name for the water is AstraZeneca, hcg is pregnyl.

There are so many conflicting opinions about it, I'm so confused. Unfortunately Bac water is hard to come by in Australia.

[steroid.com 1]

Bacteriostatic Water is a sterile, nonpyrogenic preparation of water for injection but contains 0.9% of benzyl alcohol added as a bacteriostatic preservative to preserve the drug it is used with and also to prevent infections when needles are inserted multiple times like we see with HCG or Insulin .

So, bacteriostatic water is sterile water BUT contains a bacteriostatic preservative and more importantly an antimicrobial agent in it.

Sterile Water on the other hand is a sterile nonpyrogenic preparation of water for injection but contains no bacteriostat, antimicrobial agent or added buffer so it won't preserve the drug as long as Bacteriostatic water will or prevent infections from multiple insertions of needles.

Here's a good link: http://www.rxlist.com/h2o-side-effects-drug-center.htm

[vinceproduction]

I've used both and let me tell you, the sterile water burned like crazy! I will only use bacteriostatic from now on. Anyone know why the sterile water burns?

[Sgt. Hartman]

Why are you taking so much hcg ? What else are you taking that you think you need 1500iu 3 times per week? I'd be worried about desensitization at that dosage for extended periods of time.

And bac water will prevent the future growth of bacteria while sterile water is exactly what the name implies - it's sterile when you get it but it doesn't prevent the future growth of bacteria.

[johnyz333]

Bacteriostatic Water is a sterile, nonpyrogenic preparation of water for injection but contains 0.9% of benzyl alcohol added as a bacteriostatic preservative to preserve the drug it is used with and also to prevent infections when needles are inserted multiple times like we see with HCG or Insulin .

So, bacteriostatic water is sterile water BUT contains a bacteriostatic preservative and more importantly an antimicrobial agent in it.

Sterile Water on the other hand is a sterile nonpyrogenic preparation of water for injection but contains no bacteriostat, antimicrobial agent or added buffer so it won't preserve the drug as long as Bacteriostatic water will or prevent infections from multiple insertions of needles.

Here's a good link: http://www.rxlist.com/h2o-side-effects-drug-center.htm

Thanks GD, some great information there. I managed to source some Bac water through a compound pharmacy.

Why are you taking so much hcg? What else are you taking that you think you need 1500iu 3 times per week? I'd be worried about desensitization at that dosage for extended periods of time.

And bac water will prevent the future growth of bacteria while sterile water is exactly what the name implies - it's sterile when you get it but it doesn't prevent the future growth of bacteria.

I have extremely low T, my wife and I are trying to have kids, so as far as I understand the dosage I'm on helps fertility. The doc will lower the dosage and incorporate some test once we fall pregnant. Can you elaborate on 'desensitization'? What does it mean and how long is an extended period of time?

I have been on this dosage for a little over 2 months, and feeling really good.

[steroid.com 1]

The dosage your fertility Doc has you on is the correct protocol.

Generally speaking, these doses are not life long and shorter in duration than what men will see on a TRT protocol.

What Sarge is saying is that there is a school of thought out there that too much of a peptide like hCG in these large dosage amounts can in essence "numb out" the receptors sites on the leydig cells resulting in less effectiveness of hCG use.

I haven't really read any studies that prove that out but there are enough Physician's "in the know" who can rationalize this process.

My biggest concern with this large amount of hCG is the increase in E2 levels which can and will most likely happen. Elevated E2 is not what you want (read the stickies) and you might want to ask your Physician to monitor this for you during this time period.

[johnyz333]

The dosage your fertility Doc has you on is the correct protocol.

Generally speaking, these doses are not life long and shorter in duration than what men will see on a TRT protocol.

What Sarge is saying is that there is a school of thought out there that too much of a peptide like hCG in these large dosage amounts can in essence "numb out" the receptors sites on the leydig cells resulting in less effectiveness of hCG use.

I haven't really read any studies that prove that out but there are enough Physician's "in the know" who can rationalize this process.

My biggest concern with this large amount of hCG is the increase in E2 levels which can and will most likely happen. Elevated E2 is not what you want (read the stickies) and you might want to ask your Physician to monitor this for you during this time period.

Thanks GD, you give me so much peace of mind when you chime in, much appreciated.

My e2 was through the roof about 4 weeks back. I have been taking 0.5mg of Arimadex twice a week which has helped alot; I started to develop gyno, but since the adex, it's under control. Infact the lump is half the size now.

[MickeyKnox]

Dr. Eugene Shippen:

"Scientific studies have demonstrated that HCG dosage levels of about
5,000 IU per week or more administered long-term cause permanent damage
to the testicles (see Medline articles 6210708 and 3583230). These
studies have shown that such excessive HCG dosages taken long-term
result in testicular desensitization (to future stimulation by LH or
HCG). In other words, long-term, such excessive dosages of HCG will
result in primary hypogonadism!"

food for thought.

[Far from massive]

Thats the only trouble with this board, the guy comes on to ask a simple question about HCG dilution and winds up with a whole miriad of new concerns LOL

On a serious note really great posts, and for the OP you can buy bacteriostatic water online, just make sure it is benzyl alcohol based not soduim cloride based.

[Sgt. Hartman]

Exactly what gdevine said. I didn't know you were using hcg for fertility issues and just assumed you were using it along side your TRT which is why I thought it was an extreme dose.

Best of luck.......

[steroid.com 1]

Dr. Eugene Shippen:

"Scientific studies have demonstrated that HCG dosage levels of about
5,000 IU per week or more administered long-term cause permanent damage
to the testicles (see Medline articles 6210708 and 3583230). These
studies have shown that such excessive HCG dosages taken long-term
result in testicular desensitization (to future stimulation by LH or
HCG). In other words, long-term, such excessive dosages of HCG will
result in primary hypogonadism!"

food for thought.

Thanks Mickey. I am aware of Shippen's position, and as noted, there are TRT physicians who hold the same; but like I've said I've yet to see a study that supports such a claim...I'll do more digging as it's an important one for us all.

[johnyz333]

Thanks for all the responses fellas. All sorted now,got myself some bac water today.