TRT and gyno?

[gbrice75]

I've been on TRT for just over 8 weeks now. 200mg test cyp/week, pinning 100mg every 3.5 days. 300iu HCG 3x weekly (Mon/Wed/Fri). Arimidex on hand but haven't used it yet as my last labs (3 weeks ago) had my E2 at 23.8 pg/mL (7.6-42.6), so I didn't see the need for it.

Just yesterday I noticed a bit of 'soreness' around my left nipple. I don't feel any lumps or anything (I don't think), just a sense of soreness. However, wouldn't it stand to reason that if one were experiencing gyno symptoms as a result of TRT, E2 levels should be high? Is it possible that my E2 levels could have shot up that much in 3 weeks since my last labs?

I haven't seen many threads about gyno ane TRT. Is it unheard of?

[steroid.com 1]

Yes it's possible especially at 200mg of Test a week and 900 iu of HCG ; that's an aggressive protocol for TRT.

Look for other common symptoms like water retention and sore joints.

Gyno will happen with TRT no question about it.

Might want to start adding in the AI to see if you can reverse the soreness gb.

Blood test for E2 right now may be your best option so you can figure out dosage and not guess my friend.

gd

[gbrice75]

Thanks brother. I may start the AI. I'm all about being proactive vs. reactive. I'd rather take precautions than try to reverse damage already done. What would you personally recommend to start? I have to check what the script was for, but I always appreciate a 2nd opinion. I'm thinking .25mg every 3.5 days? Light dosage just to keep E2 at bay.

[bass]

Most likely your e2 has shot up. It has been my experience in the beginning of TRT we covert very easily and fast. BTW, that's not a sensitive assay test you posted, the range for sensitive assay I believe is 3 to 70, the one you posted is for women.

[gbrice75]

Most likely your e2 has shot up. It has been my experience in the beginning of TRT we covert very easily and fast. BTW, that's not a sensitive assay test you posted, the range for sensitive assay I believe is 3 to 70, the one you posted is for women.

Well this pisses me off, seeing as I specifically asked for a sensitive assay.

I have an appt. Monday morning to review these latest labs with the doc and I'll ask about that. Also, based on the fact that both free and total test were above the reference range, I assume he's going to lower my test dosage a bit, so I'm hoping that'll have a positive impact on E2 levels, albeit a small one.

On another note - I mentioned i'm on 1000iu's HCG /week (actually 900iu's - 300iu 3x weekly), but my doc prescribed 2000iu's/week. I bounced it off you guys here and you all told me it was too high which I expected to hear and agree with. What i'm wondering is why he'd prescribe that? Obviously, you don't know the answer. The problem is neither does he. He ordered me the HCG from a colleague at a compounding pharmacy and said that this doc/pharmacist (i'm not sure which) recommended that dosage. He said he listens to him because this guy prescribes hundreds of people HCG while my doc only does a handful (despite having many people on TRT). Strange...

[steroid.com 1]

gb - Your Doc is over prescribing most likely because he doesn't know what he's doing.

Here's the problem with high HCG dosages; it can and will cause aromatization within the testicular glands elevating E2 and an aromatase inhibitor is largely in effective in controlling. So you get elevated E2 and have no real way to control it.

There is no need for a man who is Secondary Hypogonadal to use more then 350 iu of HCG on any given day. Any more and leydig receptor cell desensitization will/may occur and combat all the good we're trying to do.

I urge you to read Dr. Crisler's paper on HCG administration...it's very compelling.

I personally like smaller doses more frequently of HCG like 250 iu EOD.

I also agree that you will most likely be dialed down on your dosages beings that serum levels are elevated; this will help with E2 control.

I think the .25 mg AI every 3.5 days is conservative and a good place to start.

[gbrice75]

^^ as always, thank you for the insight and great advice GD! Starting the AI Sunday since my test dosages are Sunday/Wednesday and I don't want to have to remember yet another schedule. :\

[kelkel]

Another thought GB. Reduce your T dosage by 50 mg as well. Call your doc and request a script for nolvadex to be called in. Pick it up and jump on it for now. It won't hurt you to run it with the AI until things settle down. Also have her call in a script to your lab for an e2 sensitive assay and go get it done. You do not need to fast for it.

If you use labcorp I can give you the proper codes...

[gbrice75]

^^ Thanks for your input Kel. Not sure if you saw above but I have an appt. Monday and expect my doc will reduce my T dosage based on the last labs. If he doesn't do so automatically, i'll discuss with him and/or do it myself as you suggested.

Not a bad idea at all re: adding in the SERM. It'll at least 'gobble up' some of the excess estrogen while the AI starts doing it's job right out of the gate.

Yes, I do use labcorp - would love the codes if you can provide, thx again!

[kelkel]

E Sensitive: 140244
CPT Code 82670

I take these with me every time I go so they don't f it up.

I did not catch that it's this Monday. So you'll live then! It's a short term solution adding the serm as it can/will lower the effectiveness of Adex as well as lowering your IGF1 levels. I've used it when struggling with E and it's a life saver. Some hyper-sensitive (nips) bodybuilders run them together routinely.

[gbrice75]

Thanks Kel!! I'll bring these with me on Monday. So you'd suggest having ONLY the E2 test run? Anything else while I'm at it? I didn't get cortisol checked last time... should I throw it in?

Sounds like having nolva on hand would be a good idea, just in case.

[steroid.com 1]

gb - If you're getting blood pulled get the recommended follow-up labs in the Finding a TRT Doc...it's all you need man and will tell you a lot.

[gbrice75]

^^ Thanks GD. Just wasn't sure if it was too soon, i.e. only a month later to be getting full follow up labs again.

[HRTstudent]

I've been on TRT for just over 8 weeks now. 200mg test cyp/week, pinning 100mg every 3.5 days. 300iu HCG 3x weekly (Mon/Wed/Fri). Arimidex on hand but haven't used it yet as my last labs (3 weeks ago) had my E2 at 23.8 pg/mL (7.6-42.6), so I didn't see the need for it.

Just yesterday I noticed a bit of 'soreness' around my left nipple. I don't feel any lumps or anything (I don't think), just a sense of soreness. However, wouldn't it stand to reason that if one were experiencing gyno symptoms as a result of TRT, E2 levels should be high? Is it possible that my E2 levels could have shot up that much in 3 weeks since my last labs?

I haven't seen many threads about gyno ane TRT. Is it unheard of?

My E2 takes about 3 weeks to go from almost nothing to above range (sensitive test).

Having said that, a lot of people misdiagnose gyno because they become hyper-aware of all things nipple related once they start on androgens.

Keep an eye on it, and get bloodwork if you can.

[kelkel]

My E2 takes about 3 weeks to go from almost nothing to above range (sensitive test).

Having said that, a lot of people misdiagnose gyno because they become hyper-aware of all things nipple related once they start on androgens.

Keep an eye on it, and get bloodwork if you can.

^^Yep. I jumped 13 pts in a month then leveled out based on 3 monthly tests in a row. I'm nip sensitive so I always keep Nolva on hand. My doc says some people are just that way even though they run low as I do. Hell, I've been sensitive toward nips all my life up until TRT. Just never mine!



kel

[--->>405<<---]

My E2 takes about 3 weeks to go from almost nothing to above range (sensitive test).

Having said that, a lot of people misdiagnose gyno because they become hyper-aware of all things nipple related once they start on androgens.

Keep an eye on it, and get bloodwork if you can.

just reading this thread made my nipples start tingling! LOL..

[kelkel]

Oh lovely! Stop thinking about it 405. Your E level never knows where the hell it is!

kel

[gbrice75]

My E2 takes about 3 weeks to go from almost nothing to above range (sensitive test).

Having said that, a lot of people misdiagnose gyno because they become hyper-aware of all things nipple related once they start on androgens.

Keep an eye on it, and get bloodwork if you can.

Amen!! I'm already a paranoid head case, GD knows!

^^Yep. I jumped 13 pts in a month then leveled out based on 3 monthly tests in a row. I'm nip sensitive so I always keep Nolva on hand. My doc says some people are just that way even though they run low as I do. Hell, I've been sensitive toward nips all my life up until TRT. Just never mine!



kel

Bahahah!!

[Hackamaniac]

Most likely your e2 has shot up. It has been my experience in the beginning of TRT we covert very easily and fast. BTW, that's not a sensitive assay test you posted, the range for sensitive assay I believe is 3 to 70, the one you posted is for women.

Bass the 3- 70 might be the sensitive essay, but the one i've use is the 7-42 and it clearly states it's for males...Another thing, you had both tests done and they were almost identical..So what's changed your mind thinking only sensitive is acceptible?

[Mralternator66]

Curious. My first trt is test p. 200 every 2 wks. Is this to weak? Or should I do 1 pin a week instead of docs 2 wks? 6'1 254 lbs fit 51 yr old