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Thread: Start of TRT

  1. #1
    highpsi is offline Junior Member
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    Start of TRT

    After years of feeling like crap I had testosterone checked since it was low 4 years ago also. This time is was 285, I was put on 200mg a week. So now I"m reading I probably should be taking hcg , Pregnenolone, dhea, maybe a AI? Kinda feel like this might end up making me worse. Calling the doctor this morning to see if they have even heard of hcg.

    Last BW

    Folate 24.8 >=5.9
    b12 384 180-914
    vitd 42 30-100

    SHBG 20 11-80
    T4 Free 1.13 .46-1.31
    Test free 69.4 47.0-244
    Test bioavailiable 170 130-680
    test tot 285 332-896
    TSH 2.62 .34-5.60

  2. #2
    J DIESEL3 is offline Associate Member
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    Welcome highpsi

    When i was first put on injections after being on t gel my doctor also started me at 200mg per week.

    I felt much worse because i needed a AI at this dose and he would not give me a script for one...

    So my e2 shot up big time and i felt and looked really bad!So what I did was reduce my test to almost half and inject 2 times a week.This happened to work out well for me but for some it wont and a AI will be needed.

    As for the pregnenlone and dhea yes they are very good to use in conjunction with your trt,however they wont make you feel like crap right away like high e2 will.

    Also hcg can be added in later as well if this doctor wont work with you.

  3. #3
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
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    Hi high?

    I assume these are pre TRT numbers, correct? When did you start your injection protocol and do you have follow-up BW you can post with ranges for us to evaluate.

    Tell us your height/weight and estimated body fat level please.

    Did the doctor find a causative factor for the low T?

    200mg per week is a high end dose. Honestly better to start lower (app 100mg) and titrate based on BW. Healthier that way and easier to control sides. Also with a quality dosing protocol you "may" be able to eliminate / reduce the need for an AI. 200mg in one shot will definitely cause a spike in E2 that a smaller, possibly split dosage would not.

    Yes, HCG is needed IMO. Read the sticky thread at the top of this forum for a detailed explanation.

    Preg/dhea etc are all great to add to a protocol as they are all precursers to T. But, first lets get straightened out with your initial protocol via full BW before you start adding all/any ancillaries. One change at a time is best as that way you can actually evaluate exactly what effect it has had on you. Examples of BW are in the Finding a Physician Sticky.

    We've all been in your shoes one way or another and are glad to help. Many others will chime in as well. It's early! Welcome to the forum and please stick around and update us. Great people here full of knowledge and willing to help!

    kel

  4. #4
    highpsi is offline Junior Member
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    Yup pre trt BW. I know a lot is missing as I didn't start reading about it till after. I"m 5'8", thick frame from 20 years of lifting, started feeling bad at around 30, 37 now. With junk food being my anti depressant and not lifting I'd suppose I'm in the 20s for bf. 3rd week of injections, I hate doing them, get nausea and am doing the upper thigh with a 22g. Ordered some 25g 1". If 2 times a week is better I'll give it a try and see about getting hcg . Doctor has not returned my call yet. Bw was suppose to be 1 month, but I've read 6 weeks might be better.

    So far I'm feeling better, more energy, have been to the gym consistent. Actually have not touched junk food since the 9th, truly amazing for my me. 1st time in years I've seen veins popping out of my arms, not really bloated yet and the nips are ok so far. Perhaps a little libido coming back. 3rd week I've read is where things start to happen so I'll keep my eyes open.

  5. #5
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    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
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    22ga OMG! That's a friggen harpoon! Definitely get on the 25ga and also begin looking into Sub-Q injections as they are painless and simple. Also buy larger tips such as 18ga or so for loading purposes only, or just use the 22's for this purpose. Yes, twice per week injections is a good thing. Less injected = less spike in E = less AI needed, hopefully none. Also the less BF you carry the less conversion to E will occur. Learn to inject in other areas of your body as well. Take a look at spotinjections.com as it's a good, basic guide.

    6 weeks is fine for your second BW. Be prepared to ask your doc for an AI as well as the HCG .

    kel

  6. #6
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    OP - Is this all the Doc tested before he put you on a TRT protocol?

    Last BW

    Folate 24.8 >=5.9
    b12 384 180-914
    vitd 42 30-100

    SHBG 20 11-80
    T4 Free 1.13 .46-1.31
    Test free 69.4 47.0-244
    Test bioavailiable 170 130-680
    test tot 285 332-896
    TSH 2.62 .34-5.60

    There's a ton of reasons why you could be presenting with lot serum levels and they should have been investigated first and foremost before TRT.

    Now that you are on a protocol we can't see baselines to see what may have been the cause...

    See the blood panels we recommend in the sticky's as kel noted and get them all on your next BW hopefully 6 weeks after you started.

    Also, learn about the symptoms of elevated Estradiol in the sticky at the top of the forum and see if any of that makes sense to you.

  7. #7
    highpsi is offline Junior Member
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    Well the doctor said hcg is for women and would not prescribe it. They are willing to refer me to a endo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by highpsi View Post
    Well the doctor said hcg is for women and would not prescribe it. They are willing to refer me to a endo.
    If I had a $1 for every time I heard that I'd be living in paradise...oh wait, I already do!

    Find an Endo who understands TRT in men and don't waste your time if they don't as you won't get the right help...so interview them and find out first.

    You need HCG ...read the sticky at the top of the forum.

  9. #9
    highpsi is offline Junior Member
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    Well it seems I could probably get the hcg thru other means of course. Due for the 4th shot tomorrow of my trt. No testicle pain today so far, not sure if I'm paranoid or I have some shrinkage.

    What would I need to do to stop? I think maybe gdevine is right and perhaps more blood panels ordered to see wtf "was" going on. At only three weeks you'd think I could get back to what is my normal levels in a short period? Maybe then get more BW done and try to narrow a cause.

    Any input?

  10. #10
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
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    The effects of TRT are not really quick. It can take more time than you've allowed so far. Their actually is a sticky related to the effects of TRT and what to expect, by GD actually. Good read!

    Stopping, well to do that it would be best to do a short PCT where you would use SERMS such as nolvadex and/or clomid to help stimulate your natural production. If your TRT is cypionate it would start about 18 days after your last injection. But, if your doc already thinks HCG is just for women good luck having him prescribe you those as well.

    Op you need to figure out what you want. TRT is a journey not a sprint and if you feel it may be a mistake at this time in your life then you need to find a doctor who understands hormones and chart a course forward.

    kel

  11. #11
    highpsi is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks kelkel, I'm not sure if it's right or not, I've felt like crap for so long. 7 years of sporadic libido and constant binge eating and depression. The only thing that bothers me is the incomplete BW. Maybe there is something missed, maybe there isn't and I"m doing whats right. I will tell you almost 4 weeks in I have more energy, able to stick to a diet and get to the gym. I swear my voice is changing lol, more crackle, little deeper.

    I was like FINALLY when she said lets put you on Testosterone . But now that I've read a lot I have little doubts here and there. I can't tell you how many $100s I've spent on chronic fatigue vitamins etc, so many stimulants just to function. Main thing right now is getting this down right if I"m staying for a bit to see what the new BW is, or obtain the proper pct and get back to normal and investigate further.

  12. #12
    highpsi is offline Junior Member
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    Very tough choice but I"m stopping now. I have both pct's mentioned otw, last injection of testosterone cypionate (200mg) was last Friday, total of 3 shots were taken. So in another 10 days start the pct?, would this be one of the regimes listed or a lighter dose?

    How long before I can get a baseline BW again? I will go in with the prints outs of what is required for a actual TRT and if this doctor won't do the BW required or the additional hcg /ai I will definelty keep looking.

  13. #13
    highpsi is offline Junior Member
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    Off trt for over 6 weeks now. Blood work is Thursday. They said I do not need to fast but I thought I read you should. They knew about the LH and E2 sensitive tests. Anything else besides the above need to be added in addition to the LH and e2? Maybe dhea?

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