TRT and IGF-1?

[MrManGuy84]

Hey guys. Simple question.

Can TRT raise IGF-1?

Mine can back high, but since this was never tested before I was on TRT, I don't know if it's related or not.

[steroid.com 1]

Simple answer; for the most part yes, but there are many variables.

There is data out there that says that exogenous testosterone replacement can selectively amplify Growth Hormone (GH) secretion and oppose the IGF-1 feedback mechanism in men...so yea it can...but not always.

Do some research on the subject, it's interesting to be honest.

[MrManGuy84]

Thanks gdevine. Can you point me in the direction of any good information? I've been searching for a while now but I haven't been able to find any yet.

[steroid.com 1]

Are you interested in IGF-1 or GH?

Remember, while there is a correlation between IGF-1 and GH it's not always consistent.

In other words, a man can present with low IGF-1 scores but be high in natural GH and vise verse.

I think you are more interested in GH, correct?

Go here and have at it: http://www.ergo-log.com/gh.html

[bass]

mine did go up, it was mid range and now its nearly 1.5 times the normal.

[juice2012]

Mine also went up after only being on TRT for 6 weeks. It's now above normal range.

[HRTstudent]

The common answer is that you should expect a rise in IGF1 when you go on TRT.

[HRTstudent]

But is that good or bad?

I don't know! There was that really interesting BBC documentary on lifespan in mice linked with IGF1. They lived longer when they had low IGF1!

But I think the women were infertile so what's the point! ROFL

[MrManGuy84]

My endo (actually found a good one) tested IGF-1 after my being on Test for a few weeks. He was surprised to see it elevated. He does TRT for guys all the time. He didn't seem to think it was related to the TRT, but perhaps I misunderstood.

Anyhow he also happens to be a specialist in acromegaly. He didn't think I have it, but wanted to do some more tests to make sure. Since my prolactin has been high as well, it's suspicious.

Oddly, my GH was near the very bottom of the normal range, and doing the suppression test, it went down even a little further. Meanwhile IGF-1 was still high, but less so. Interestingly, this kept pace with my elevated prolactin, which had also gone down a bit. This retest was before any change in protocol.

Right now we're continuing TRT for a couple more months along with an AI and Cabergoline to drive down the elevated prolactin and estradiol (prolactin was slighly high before TRT, but significantly more so afterward starting it). Also Vitamin D was below normal, so he gave me a script for that. Before I see him again in a couple months, we'll retest all that stuff again.

Anyhow I was just wondering if acromegaly was the only cause of IGF-1. It looks like my initial suspicion that it was just the TRT was probably right. Too bad. I wish all my problems were traceable to something simple and operable.

As it stands I'm almost two weeks into the new protocol and I feel basically the same. I'm unhappy about this... running out of ideas. It's looking like a life of sexless, emotionless robotics for me. Damn.

[HRTstudent]

My endo (actually found a good one) tested IGF-1 after my being on Test for a few weeks. He was surprised to see it elevated. He does TRT for guys all the time. He didn't seem to think it was related to the TRT, but perhaps I misunderstood.

Anyhow he also happens to be a specialist in acromegaly. He didn't think I have it, but wanted to do some more tests to make sure. Since my prolactin has been high as well, it's suspicious.

Oddly, my GH was near the very bottom of the normal range, and doing the suppression test, it went down even a little further. Meanwhile IGF-1 was still high, but less so. Interestingly, this kept pace with my elevated prolactin, which had also gone down a bit. This retest was before any change in protocol.

Right now we're continuing TRT for a couple more months along with an AI and Cabergoline to drive down the elevated prolactin and estradiol (prolactin was slighly high before TRT, but significantly more so afterward starting it). Also Vitamin D was below normal, so he gave me a script for that. Before I see him again in a couple months, we'll retest all that stuff again.

Anyhow I was just wondering if acromegaly was the only cause of IGF-1. It looks like my initial suspicion that it was just the TRT was probably right. Too bad. I wish all my problems were traceable to something simple and operable.

As it stands I'm almost two weeks into the new protocol and I feel basically the same. I'm unhappy about this... running out of ideas. It's looking like a life of sexless, emotionless robotics for me. Damn.

Have you had a pituitary MRI?

acromegaly is also something that you can see in people... unless I suppose you recently developed it. But in adults who develop acromegaly their ears and nose grow larger; their fingers grow wider but not longer; and there are some other features... but i imagine if you're with a good endo then this would be something up their alley.

[MrManGuy84]

Have you had a pituitary MRI?

acromegaly is also something that you can see in people... unless I suppose you recently developed it. But in adults who develop acromegaly their ears and nose grow larger; their fingers grow wider but not longer; and there are some other features... but i imagine if you're with a good endo then this would be something up their alley.

I had an MRI about four years ago which came back negative. The doctor talked about maybe doing another one depending on the last GH / IGF1 results, but didn't seem to concerned when they came back. He said that it was possible that the tumor had been too small the first time.

As far as the physical manifestations, they don't seem to be present. However, if I do in fact have it, we have caught it very early, according to him. It usually takes a long time to reach the point that it is physically obvious (unless you develop it as a teenager, which will make you a giant. But it's more commonly something that starts later). He was not looking for this when he tested my IGF1; he said he just wanted to see how my pituitary in general was doing. I suspect we'll look into it more depending on the next test results. I wish we'd done every lab under the sun before starting TRT. Just check every box for pete's sake...

In the meantime I was curious about my cortisol and ACTH. I had cortisol tested once and it was high, but the doctor didn't seem to concerned at the time (this was also about four years ago). I was reading about it just because one of the most obviously missing feelings is the adrenalin hit I used to get when I play sports or get excited. Meanwhile, my previous anxiety disorder has all but gone away. I used to be stressed out and anxious all the time, but now I mostly just feel numb. Even when I do get stressed or upset, it's very different. So I thought adrenalin, cortisol, etc might be a place of interest to look.

Anyhow, was reading about Addisons, Cushings, etc... and there it is again. Pituitary tumor, or maybe one on the adrenals. Every damn thing I consider seems to go back to something like that. I swear I'm not looking for possibilities that involve tumors, but everything I suspect seems to go back to that.

Shit, though, I'm becoming a hypocondriac. I just want answers...

[HRTstudent]

I'd ask him why he doesn't want to get another MRI, especially if he's indicating that it might have been too small before. That somewhat supposes that if it were there, it might be detectable now that time has past.

Do you think it's possible you might have some degree of depression?

[MrManGuy84]

I'd ask him why he doesn't want to get another MRI, especially if he's indicating that it might have been too small before. That somewhat supposes that if it were there, it might be detectable now that time has past.

Do you think it's possible you might have some degree of depression?

We've talked about MRI's. Initially he figured the one from 4 years ago was sufficient, but that was before the IGF thing. Now he's watching the IGF to see what it does. He doesn't think it's acro. He mentioned the possibility of the tumor having been too small before, but in the same breathe said that he was thinking ahead several steps and we'd need more testing. If I tell him I really want one he'll probably do it. We've just been moving one thing at a time. I don't have a lot of money, so doing one thing at a time isn't so bad.

As far as depression, I more than think it's possible, I know it. But I've tried a lot of anti-depressants and a lot of therapy and none of them have helped much at all. Even my current therapist thinks that whatever is going on is probably physical. I see him to try to keep a lid on things, though... I've been very distressed.

I should explain where I'm coming from a little better, since you asked.

Since I was about 12 I had a bad anxiety problem, and had problems with depression. I was on Celexa for many years. I don't know if it helped with the anxiety and depression or not. They were certainly still there, but without it they may have been worse. The anxiety was really really bad.

Then around ealry 2007, I noticed things had changed. I went from being stressed out and anxious with a lot of negative feelings to no feelings. This happened fairly abruptly, over maybe 6 months at most. At first I thought I was doing better since the anxiety was much more manageable, but I soon realized that I wasn't feeling any excitement, and that my sex drive had all but disappeared. The latter was very noticeable. Nothing like that had ever happened before. I still had anxiety, but it was different. It went from a consuming, stabbing kind of anxiety to more of a blunt background pain against a backdrop of general numbness. This has persisted for over 5 years now. I'm 28.

The only thing that had changed in those last few months was that I'd switched to Prozac. Prior to that I'd been doing a job that was too stressful, exhausting and all wrong for my temperment. I was really run down and messed up. I'd switched in an effort to keep things together. I left the job about 6 months later (that same 6 month span). It was only after that that I realized the change had happened. At first I thought it was just the drugs, but when I got off, I felt the same way even after months without it.

I had been getting increasingly tired. In my search I did find I have sleep apnea. Treating that has helped me stay awake through the day and have a bit more energy, but I'm still the same emotionally.

I have tried a lot of different things. A lot of therapy, and many different anti-depressants, and all kinds of doctors. But none of them have helped. I'm pretty sure that something physical is going on. The situation in my life is quite positive aside from this...

Anyhow, in that search we found that my Testosterone was low, and it made sense with the symptoms, so we thought we'd give it a try. Some other endocrine stuff out of whack as well. So here I am...