Self-Guided HRT

[junk2222yard]

Given that so few doctors understand HRT, and that traveling to a doctor that does can incur great expense, what is the bare minimum requirements you would recommend for someone following an HRT protocol?

I get the impression that many people are doing it based on "feel", with no blood work, and ordering meds from underground labs? Personally I would not be comfortble with that. But if you really felt like sh*t, and couldn't get the help you needed due to any number of reasons, hell, desperate times can call for desperate measures.

For my comfort level, a bare minimum is having bloodwork done, and getting legetimate precriptions filled through a pharmacy. This is what I am doing. But I am sure many people would be uncomfortable with some of the shortcmings of my program. Specifically, while my doctor is open to writing Rxs if I can make a case for them, he doesn't have enough know-how to be the one truly guiding me. It boils down to I do research on the internet, read the stickies here, post messages on steroid .com, and figure out what to recommend to my doctor. Although this sounds absurd -- essentially my regimen is being guided by the vets of this forum! -- I am pretty sure it is better than many regimens because at least my doctor does prescribe me AIs and hCG !

But is this reasonable, and rational of me? I do worry about things not being caught by me and my doc, that may be caught at an anti-aging clinic. But then I also think these anti-aging clinics are probably charing some really inflated prices for things you can do on your own?

[bca]

i agree with you completely. its unfortunate but i'm looking at doing the same as you...

[rollingthunder]

i think a guy is probably better off with the approach you are taking...that is, doing your own reading/research/learning and then communicating with your doctor (even if the doctor is not familiar with HRT protocols) what it is you want to do, based on blood tests, and having him "sign off" on it, i.e. write you prescriptions, then adjusting as necessary...than a guy who just walks into an HRT clinic and says "here i am. what should i do?"

now, if you have both things, personal knowledge/understanding and a doctor/clinic that is geared for HRT, then you've really got the best possible situation.

[HRTstudent]

I do not recommend self guided TRT.

At best this means you are likely going to be taking black market drugs and relying on people without medical degrees who don't know you to diagnose and treat you.

That's the best case scenario.

Does that sound at all rational?

[fit2bOld]

That's just crazy to self administer HRT if it is needed. Most important is that you take a proactive role in your treatment. Going along with the doctor wont do this test or prescribes Test injections to far apart not understanding the half life of test is ridiculous.

Doctors work for us, we are not children with our heads in the sand saying oh the Dr. said....... FIND AN EDUCATED DOCTOR!!!!
They are out there it may even be the Physicians Assistant, call around to different offices, ask your pharmacist who prescribing Test for HRT patients.

Accepting less than is just wrong

[TheSpoonyBard]

Allow me to play Devil's advocate for a moment, if you will? What is the difference in say a self administered TRT/HRT protocol vs a self administered AAS protocol? I mean, some people seem to create a double standard when it comes to an issue such as this. What makes it okay to self prescribe an AAS regimen but not an HRT one? Is it because you can legally obtain testosterone from a physician fairly easily? Because said physician can order labs to test hormone levels? If those are cases for advocacy of physician led HRT/TRT then the logic is flawed. I'll tell you why, and use my case as an example. I'm on a TRT protocol which was prescribed to me by my doctor. All well and good until we meet and I beg, and plead for her to test me for more than just total, free, and bioavailable levels of T. Well, it's just not a happening thing for her for whatever reason. I come here to the forums and post my latest experience with my doc, and I'm advised by this site's most knowledgable HRT members to get a private test performed at an outside lab, as an out of pocket expense, no insurance involved. Because my Dr won't order the tests I have requested and I'm paying a lab to test the levels I WANT tested, that takes the protocol from the hands of the physician and it now begins to enter the realm of self administered HRT. And before you say "find a new doctor, dummy!" believe you me I've attempted a few different docs now including specialists such as a urologist who was a bigger anal cavity than my PCP. When you're limited by funds and insurance coverage choosing a well informed doctor becomes complicated. Now, going on cycle is an accepted thing, especially here, hence the name of the website. I would think you could do as much if not more damage to an endocrine system with the improper use of an AAS cycle than you could with a NON hyper-physiological dose of exogenous testosterone as a supplement to aid in recovery of low T levels. So I suppose I'm asking where the difference lies? How is a so called "self guided HRT" protocol more morally ambiguous than a self guided AAS cycle? A Doctor isn't going to put you on an AAS protocol. Unless I'm missing something, and in that case may I have your doctor's contact info? Lol! Please discuss. Sorry for the lengthy post also.

[Brazensol]

I think that IF you have a doctor who will prescribe the meds and bloodwork then that is half the battle. I know on this forum alone there are several people who have more trt/hrt knowledge than any doctor I have seen to date. I think if you are disciplined enough to follow thru on proper protocols then there is no reason you can't do this on your own. It is not the best case scenario but sometimes you have to do what you have to do. The biggest pitfall to avoid most likely is the "more is better" approach. Take it slow and easy and allow the meds time to work and allow for proper blood test results.

Self treating is not optimal but sometimes... And keep a lookout for a knowledgeable doc.

Take care.

[Times Roman]

Gdivine ALWAYS has some great input on this too! Let's see what he has to say?

[TennTarheel]

I agree. It's definitely not the best case scenario, but for some, it may be the only way to get proper treatment. If money weren't an issue, I'm sure everyone would want to use a reputable HRT clinic

[APIs]

Let's be honest here, it can be very dangerous to self administer TRT. When you choose to play Doctor, you end-up having a fool for a patient. There are just too many variables present to safely manage this care ourselves. Taking responsibility for one's own health should include utilizing a competent professional to guide you in this journey. I know a few guys at the gym who self administer TRT and they always have the same excuses; "Ah, it's too much money!, "I can't find a competent Doctor for my TRT.", "I know more about these drugs than any Doctor!". Yeah right. These same individuals rarely if ever get the required Blood Work to support what they are doing. In the end, their egos on this will likely get them dead because they "thought" they knew it all. Also, as someone else mentioned, let's not forget the possible long-term consequences from using Black Market Drugs that are made by unapproved, less-than-ideal manufacturing sources with questionable label claims.

I for one pay a substantial amount for my TRT care, but I choose to do so. TRT is a condition I have which requires expert guidance. If my Doctor didn’t hound me for blood work every 4 months & conduct 45 minute phone consultations 4x a year there's no way I'd be as healthy as I am today. I find this structure makes me responsible for my health. In the end, you get what you pay for IMO. That's not to say one can't find affordable TRT treatment either. The good Doctors are out there if you do your homework...

[bass]

i do not advocate self medicating but i know how hard it is to find a good doc and most importantly how expensive it is if your insurance does not cover it. it took me 1.5 years to finally find a good doc, but even that is not guaranteed, i could lose her simply if she moves her office or get hired by a firm or something... self medicating along with this site is not the problem, the problem is if something happens to you while self medicating!

[HRTstudent]

Allow me to play Devil's advocate for a moment, if you will? What is the difference in say a self administered TRT/HRT protocol vs a self administered AAS protocol? I mean, some people seem to create a double standard when it comes to an issue such as this. What makes it okay to self prescribe an AAS regimen but not an HRT one? Is it because you can legally obtain testosterone from a physician fairly easily? Because said physician can order labs to test hormone levels? If those are cases for advocacy of physician led HRT/TRT then the logic is flawed. I'll tell you why, and use my case as an example. I'm on a TRT protocol which was prescribed to me by my doctor. All well and good until we meet and I beg, and plead for her to test me for more than just total, free, and bioavailable levels of T. Well, it's just not a happening thing for her for whatever reason. I come here to the forums and post my latest experience with my doc, and I'm advised by this site's most knowledgable HRT members to get a private test performed at an outside lab, as an out of pocket expense, no insurance involved. Because my Dr won't order the tests I have requested and I'm paying a lab to test the levels I WANT tested, that takes the protocol from the hands of the physician and it now begins to enter the realm of self administered HRT. And before you say "find a new doctor, dummy!" believe you me I've attempted a few different docs now including specialists such as a urologist who was a bigger anal cavity than my PCP. When you're limited by funds and insurance coverage choosing a well informed doctor becomes complicated. Now, going on cycle is an accepted thing, especially here, hence the name of the website. I would think you could do as much if not more damage to an endocrine system with the improper use of an AAS cycle than you could with a NON hyper-physiological dose of exogenous testosterone as a supplement to aid in recovery of low T levels. So I suppose I'm asking where the difference lies? How is a so called "self guided HRT" protocol more morally ambiguous than a self guided AAS cycle? A Doctor isn't going to put you on an AAS protocol. Unless I'm missing something, and in that case may I have your doctor's contact info? Lol! Please discuss. Sorry for the lengthy post also.

Couple things... first of all, just because androgen abuse is generally more accepted on other forums on this site doesn't mean we all share that view. Not only that, but it's like going to a casino and asking people, "Whats so bad about gambling?"

Next, TRT is a quality of life treatment, and this is a big difference. Oftentimes, you are also on TRT for life. That means you need to take drugs regularly for DECADES.

The goals of taking testosterone for quality of life vs muscle-building are so incredibly different.

[MyteeJ]

Having a quality HRT/TRT Doc is almost a luxury. Even if you can find one, the cost is high IMO.

Medicine today is about reacting and not preventing.

Let's not mistake self directed for abuse or ignoring medical advice.

In every medical treatment we all receive, we have to be our own biggest advocates, questioning and having input on treatments (of course after educating ourselves).

[junk2222yard]

Here is what I was getting at with the original post... there is a heirarchy of HRT:

AT THE TOP:
1. guided by an expensive and very qualified Doctor (likely Anti-aging specialist), using regular blood tests and pharmacy quality medicine

MIDDLE TIER
2. getting some guidance from a doctor who is not fully qualified. Getting *some* bloodwork done. Getting *some* pharmacy grade medicine. A good example of this is the many people that go to a doctor who gives them a precription for exogenous Testosterone , to be injected every two weeks. This doc plays by the (poorly written) book, and won't prescribe other medicines, frequent injecitons, won't test for things like E2. These HRTers may farm out their own bloodwork, and buy there own meds from underground labs, or they may just stick with the doctor's protocol even though they are aware it is old school and they may suffer.

BOTTOM TIER
3. no bloodwork done, no doctor involved and no precriptions written or filled. This HRTer goes on "feel", and gets meds from underground labs/local gym connections, etc.

There are many variations on these basic categories, but I think they ring true. Only the first is truly doctor-guided, the others are self-guided to different degrees. I was hoping people would comment on there own situation and comfort levels, and what there bare minimum recommendation would be for someone to follow HRT.

[TennTarheel]

Another point, just because some people wouldn't be disciplined enough to do the proper research and blood testing if they were self administering HRT doesn't mean that everyone would be that slack with it. I'm sure there are plenty that would be even more meticulous than their docs as far as testing and making sure all is well. Just my opinion though

[MyteeJ]

Here is what I was getting at with the original post... there is a heirarchy of HRT:

AT THE TOP:
1. guided by an expensive and very qualified Doctor (likely Anti-aging specialist), using regular blood tests and pharmacy quality medicine

MIDDLE TIER
2. getting some guidance from a doctor who is not fully qualified. Getting *some* bloodwork done. Getting *some* pharmacy grade medicine. A good example of this is the many people that go to a doctor who gives them a precription for exogenous Testosterone , to be injected every two weeks. This doc plays by the (poorly written) book, and won't prescribe other medicines, frequent injecitons, won't test for things like E2. These HRTers may farm out their own bloodwork, and buy there own meds from underground labs, or they may just stick with the doctor's protocol even though they are aware it is old school and they may suffer.

BOTTOM TIER
3. no bloodwork done, no doctor involved and no precriptions written or filled. This HRTer goes on "feel", and gets meds from underground labs/local gym connections, etc.

There are many variations on these basic categories, but I think they ring true. Only the first is truly doctor-guided, the others are self-guided to different degrees. I was hoping people would comment on there own situation and comfort levels, and what there bare minimum recommendation would be for someone to follow HRT.

You could modify the middle Tier somewhat. If one wanted to go out on their own, they could buy pharmacy grade medicine through a legit doc and a script, purchase other meds if necessary (eg. HCG ), and pay for their own blood tests which you essentially do in Tier One since that cost is included with their annual fees or whatever method they charge.

Within this forum, I really don't think anyone fits into that bottom tier. The guys that are approaching TRT or evaluating it seem like they ask the right questions and at the very least, make modifications (or abstain) based on what the vets on here suggest.

For me, as long as I have some guidance from a Dr, pharm grade supplements, and BW to support/monitor what I take, I am comfortable.

[JackG79]

You should be thankful that you have a doctor that knows what AI, and Hcg are. I told my doc I wanted injections because i didn't want any transdermal gel getting on my 4 year old son... his response.. "So what if it gets on him?? It's just Testosterone ... It's not going to hurt him... "

This is coming from an MD.

So when you say that you do research, provide your doc with what you came up with as reasonable treatment, and he works with you on the Rx's... that is what most of the folks on here do.

As far as being guided by the "Yoda's" of this forum... That isn't crazy at all. I trust my HRT with their advice more than I would my regular doctor. Actually, when one of the heavy hitters on here advises me, or confirms my suspicions, it is much to my relief, as they have literally YEARS of research and experience. I haven't seen POST ONE of someone coming back on here and saying "God damn you guys... you screwed me all up, and now I have to move to India and become a New Delhi midnight Street walker".... No.. it's been nothing but positive returns on folks time here.

I do pretty much what you are doing, except my doctor isn't AS willing to write Rx's... He will do some stuff, but I get resistance on other things. I am looking into a Naturopathic clinic in Vermont soon... as VT is only a short drive from me... Burlington.. where most of VT lives is only 2 hours away.

Good luck on your HRT Journey. You are in good hands around here, but keep in mind... these guys are regular guys like me and you... they don't know what you are taking other than what you tell them. So if you have an allergic reaction, or a mixing reaction to something that they aren't informed of... it def. isn't on them... as their is disclaimers when you sign up.

I've seen too many sue crazies looking to blame others.

Personally i feel safer here... when you write something in the forums, you have the equivelent of tens, if not hundreds of opinions... where as your physician could simply be ONE ... One UNINFORMED opinion.... So I'll put my faith in here.