Help: Low testosterone levels?

**Xty** · 11-01-2012, 12:12 PM

Got my first bloodwork done last month and my total testosterone results were 385 ng/dl. For a 27 year old that's never cycled, what are your opinions on that level, and the ramifications on natty gains?

This is probably the highest my test levels have ever been considering the following:

Bulking for the past 4 months on a 500-1000 excess caloric diet. Now at ~20% bf
Workouts have been heavy compound barbell lifts (squats, deadlifts, bench, etc)
I don't drink or smoke
I get plenty of rest/sleep and don't have much stress

I've been barbell lifting the past 2.5 years, and made about 5 pounds of lean muscle gain. Yes, this is despite getting chubby (18-20% bf) during bulking and lifting as heavy as I can. I've worked out with several friends that have made normal gains (10-15 lbs in 1st year, 5-10lbs 2nd year), and they can't figure out why I grow so slowly. They are, however, pretty damn amazed at how strong I am for my petite size

**The Deadlifting Dog** · 11-01-2012, 01:13 PM

What's your height and weight?

What sort of rep range are you doing for your exercises?

**HRTstudent** · 11-01-2012, 02:22 PM

What was the range on that test?

What time during the day was the test?

Any extra stress over the last year?

Major diet changes? Special diets?

**kelkel** · 11-01-2012, 03:00 PM

^^^What HRT said. Can you post up your current blood work with ranges? Many things can lead to low (er) T levels that can be correctable.

Welcome to the forum!

**Xty** · 11-01-2012, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog

What's your height and weight?

What sort of rep range are you doing for your exercises?

3 sets of 5 reps. Started off with Stronglifts, cut for 2 months, and been on Starting Strength ever since.

Height, 5'4, weight 144 lbs, bf ~20+%.

Current strength stats, 5 rep max:

Low bar squats: 215 lbs. Max ever was 235 back in April.
Bench: 145 lbs. Max 3x5 was 160 lbs one month ago.
Press: 85 lbs. Been stuck here forever despite deloading and building my way back up.
Deadlift: 265. 1 rep max has been 285.
Power cleans: 3 rep 135lbs. Started doing power cleans 2 months ago. Still working on form by trying to focus on the proper olympic hip hinge.

Originally Posted by HRTstudent

What was the range on that test?

What time during the day was the test?

Any extra stress over the last year?

Major diet changes? Special diets?

Test didn't specify a range. Time: 9 am (woke up at 8:30am), last meal prior was around 11 pm. No major stress or diet changes this year.

Originally Posted by kelkel

^^^What HRT said. Can you post up your current blood work with ranges? Many things can lead to low (er) T levels that can be correctable.

Welcome to the forum!

Will post up results later tonight. Thanks for the welcoming

**TennTarheel** · 11-01-2012, 10:15 PM

I'm just goin out on a limb here and sayin your diet probably isn't conducive to you putting on lean mass. With 385 t level, you should still be able to be a lot bigger than 144 lbs at 20%bf. unless you've got something else going on, which you could. I just don't think the Test is to blame for it. Not bustin on you, just keeping it real.

**HRTstudent** · 11-01-2012, 10:28 PM

Depending on the test range, it's either borderline "normal" or low-normal. (If you're in the USA.)

Either way, given your age and current state of affairs I think it's very smart to look at non-hormonal options and working that angle first.

Do you have insurance or funds available for more blood work?

The easiest things you can probably do to improve your T is to start eating better, lower bodyfat (aromatase loves bodyfat and aromatase turns your testosterone into estradiol, also called "E2"), optimize your vitamin D, and make sure you are managing stress well. Make sure the thyroid is cranking good too... it's probably a little sluggish right now. I'd check the B12 as well.

There's a lot you could try before resorting to hormones. You're actually in a similar situation to me regarding youthful age and lower numbers. But your testosterone is well above mine, and even I believe I might not need TRT if I get other things in order. TRT is far from an easy magic bullet, let me tell you!

**TennTarheel** · 11-01-2012, 10:55 PM

Well put ^^^

**Xty** · 11-02-2012, 02:07 AM

Here's my full results:

Click image for larger version.

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Click image for larger version.

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**Xty** · 11-02-2012, 02:15 AM

Originally Posted by TennTarheel

I'm just goin out on a limb here and sayin your diet probably isn't conducive to you putting on lean mass. With 385 t level, you should still be able to be a lot bigger than 144 lbs at 20%bf. unless you've got something else going on, which you could. I just don't think the Test is to blame for it. Not bustin on you, just keeping it real.

For a bulking diet, is there much more than getting 2 grams of protein per kg of bodyweight, hitting 500+ cals above maintenance, and getting enough saturated fats? I also take daily multi vitamins, fish oil, and superdose of vitamin D.

Originally Posted by HRTstudent

Depending on the test range, it's either borderline "normal" or low-normal. (If you're in the USA.)

Either way, given your age and current state of affairs I think it's very smart to look at non-hormonal options and working that angle first.

Do you have insurance or funds available for more blood work?

The easiest things you can probably do to improve your T is to start eating better, lower bodyfat (aromatase loves bodyfat and aromatase turns your testosterone into estradiol, also called "E2"), optimize your vitamin D, and make sure you are managing stress well. Make sure the thyroid is cranking good too... it's probably a little sluggish right now. I'd check the B12 as well.

There's a lot you could try before resorting to hormones. You're actually in a similar situation to me regarding youthful age and lower numbers. But your testosterone is well above mine, and even I believe I might not need TRT if I get other things in order. TRT is far from an easy magic bullet, let me tell you!

Definitely have more insurance for bloodwork. What other tests would you recommend I get? I'm only aware of free testosterone test. Vitamin D, I'm taking a 1250% dose of everyday (strangely, my Vitamin D levels are still borderline). Stress, I'm a pretty chill person with a laid back lifestyle.

As for bodyfat levels, I'm going off a visual estimate. I would post a pic, but not sure if that's appropriate according to forum rules.

**TennTarheel** · 11-02-2012, 06:50 AM

Yes, there's a lot more in all honesty. What kind of carbs are you eating? It's not just about protein. This is what I was meaning, most people underestimate how much they really need to eat to pack on QUALITY size. Of course, then there is the other camp that will try to eat everything in sight, not caring if theyre just adding a bunch of fat and bloat. There is a good happy medium ya gotta find

**kelkel** · 11-02-2012, 10:04 AM

Op, take a look in the Finding a Doc Sticky at the top of this forum for an example of blood work to get. What you posted still does not show free T, which is our useful T. Your TSH is within that range but a more current range is 0.3 - 3.0. TSH is a weak indicator of thyroid function so on your next BW be sure to get a full panel done.

Your D is still very low. Begin supplementing with D3. I'd suggest a minimum of 5k per day and adjust after your next testing, IMO. Like HRT said, body fat plays a big part here as well.