Question on behalf of a friend

**HealthyMan** · 11-08-2012, 03:52 PM

What does having a high LH & FSH mean? I don't have the numbers in front of me, but the numbers were higher than the threshold causing the report to show them both in bold.

**baseline_9** · 11-08-2012, 04:22 PM

Are you using HCG ? Or natty baseline results?

**Doug350SD** · 11-08-2012, 04:28 PM

I pulled this from a google search; Wikipedia

High FSH levels
The most common reason for high serum FSH concentration is in a female who is undergoing or has recently undergone menopause. High levels of Follicle-Stimulating Hormone indicate that the normal restricting feedback from the gonad is absent, leading to an unrestricted pituitary FSH production.
If high FSH levels occur during the reproductive years, it is abnormal. Conditions with high FSH levels include:
Premature menopause also known as Premature Ovarian Failure
Poor ovarian reserve also known as Premature Ovarian Aging
Gonadal dysgenesis, Turner syndrome
Castration
Swyer syndrome
Certain forms of CAH
Testicular failure.
Klinefelter syndrome
Most of these conditions are associated with subfertility and/or infertility. Therefore high FSH levels are an indication of subfertility and/or infertility.

High LH levels
Persistently high LH levels are indicative of situations where the normal restricting feedback from the gonad is absent, leading to a pituitary production of both LH and FSH. While this is typical in the menopause, it is abnormal in the reproductive years. There it may be a sign of:
Premature menopause
Gonadal dysgenesis, Turner syndrome
Castration
Swyer syndrome
Polycystic ovary syndrome
Certain forms of congenital adrenal hyperplasia
Testicular failure

**Tron3219** · 11-08-2012, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by HealthyinNH

What does having a high LH & FSH mean? I don't have the numbers in front of me, but the numbers were higher than the threshold causing the report to show them both in bold.

What's his test level?

**HRTstudent** · 11-08-2012, 05:35 PM

What drugs are he on?

HCG would not have a positive effect on these, as somewhat/maybe hinted at above.

Clomid would raise these. Other than that, I can really only figure some sort of pituitary/hypothalamus issue.

**HealthyMan** · 11-08-2012, 05:46 PM

No history of any AAS. He does take lithium, I don't know his dose. What prompted his blood work was he had results about 3 months ago at total test of 280 using the Labcorp ranges of 300-1197 or whatever it is. His free was also in the dumps. Now 3 months later his total test is at *** and free is about 20, prior it was around 4.8. His e2 is currently at 12 using the range 3-70. So something has changed. We work out together and we laughed that maybe my test is being absorbed by using the same weights. Something to joke about considering.

**HealthyMan** · 11-08-2012, 05:47 PM

Lh 11.4 1.7-8.6
fsh 13.4. 1.5-12.4

**HRTstudent** · 11-08-2012, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by HealthyinNH

No history of any AAS. He does take lithium, I don't know his dose. What prompted his blood work was he had results about 3 months ago at total test of 280 using the Labcorp ranges of 300-1197 or whatever it is. His free was also in the dumps. Now 3 months later his total test is at *** and free is about 20, prior it was around 4.8. His e2 is currently at 12 using the range 3-70. So something has changed. We work out together and we laughed that maybe my test is being absorbed by using the same weights. Something to joke about considering.

his test is at ***? Whats that mean?

He used to have low testosterone but did he have LH and FSH taken back then?

I'm a bit confused as to where he stands now testosterone wise, and where he stood in the recent past LH and FSH wise.

**Tron3219** · 11-08-2012, 07:32 PM

So his test levels were lower 3 months ago but have risen since then but are still low?

I'm no expert, by ANY means but it kinda sounds like his testicles are failing to produce test and due to the hpta negative feed back his hypothalamus is sending GnRH to the pituitary to release LH and FSH. To get the testes to produce. What about his thyroid levels? R they high too?

**Tron3219** · 11-08-2012, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by Tron3219

So his test levels were lower 3 months ago but have risen since then but are still low?

I'm no expert, by ANY means but it kinda sounds like his testicles are failing to produce test and due to the hpta negative feed back his hypothalamus is sending GnRH to the pituitary to release LH and FSH. To get the testes to produce. What about his thyroid levels? R they high too?

Keep in mind I may and probably am wrong lol

**HealthyMan** · 11-08-2012, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by HRTstudent

his test is at ***? Whats that mean?

He used to have low testosterone but did he have LH and FSH taken back then?

I'm a bit confused as to where he stands now testosterone wise, and where he stood in the recent past LH and FSH wise.

Weird it added asterisks, his level is 779. He did not get his LH or FSH with his bloodwork a few months ago. I told him to get these tests done.

**Tron3219** · 11-08-2012, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by HealthyinNH

Weird it added asterisks, his level is 779. He did not get his LH or FSH with his bloodwork a few months ago. I told him to get these tests done.

So his test is good now? R u sure he didn't take any aas? I was expecting in the 100's lol u sure he didn't do any aas?

**HealthyMan** · 11-08-2012, 08:07 PM

100% sure.

**Tron3219** · 11-08-2012, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by HealthyinNH

100% sure.

Sounds like something shut him down, that's a hell of a spread...I'd b inclined to go to the dr and try and figure it out. Frequent blood work, something's not adding up

**HRTstudent** · 11-08-2012, 08:23 PM

So it sounds like now he has a normal-high testosterone and his LH and FSH are slightly above range. But 3 months ago he had low testosterone .

If I had to guess, I would say he took some sort of aromatase inhibitor or something like tamoxifen or clomiphene. I'm leaning slightly more towards an aromatase inhibitor.

Did you ask him about this? Either way... I wouldn't really worry about things, it seems like his numbers are good. But I wouldn't be encouraging anyone to screw with their hormones...

**HealthyMan** · 11-08-2012, 08:27 PM

I'm confident he didn't take anything so I can only go by his blood work. The only thing he says was a difference was cutting back on alcohol intake. But to go from about 289 to seven eighty's in three months seems unreal. I went the route of TRT and he didn't. The kicker is he is 23.

**HRTstudent** · 11-08-2012, 11:21 PM

It is indeed a huge difference.

Depending on the alcohol intake, it's possible i suppose. Alcohol is a mild toxin and it's definitely estrogenic. Estrogen is one of the primary signals that tells the brain to stop producing testosterone . Lots of people hear that and "know" it, but they ignore it. I certainly couldn't rule out that this is indeed the cause for his improvement.

It's also important to know that a variety of factors can impact what your numbers look like at 1 specific point in time, such as with a blood draw. That's why it's best to confirm low testosterone findings with at least a follow-up 2-3 months later. Stress, sleep, overtraining, infection, nutrition... these are all big players that can have major short term impacts.

**Vettester** · 11-08-2012, 11:49 PM

280 serum levels, and LH/FSH scores >11, I'd say your friend is looking on the primary side for his diagnosis. Being there's no other medications involved, this indicates the negative feedback loop is functional, and the HPTA is responding normally. Unfortunately, the serum levels never make it high enough to regulate the HPTA to decrease production, so the pituitary is just producing GnRH -- LH/FSH like it's going out of style.

I would suggest a good urologist to provide a complete examination of the testicular region.

**TennTarheel** · 11-09-2012, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by Vettester

280 serum levels, and LH/FSH scores >11, I'd say your friend is looking on the primary side for his diagnosis. Being there's no other medications involved, this indicates the negative feedback loop is functional, and the HPTA is responding normally. Unfortunately, the serum levels never make it high enough to regulate the HPTA to decrease production, so the pituitary is just producing GnRH -- LH/FSH like it's going out of style.

I would suggest a good urologist to provide a complete examination of the testicular region.

^^^ This is what I was thinking.