Low T, Low Free T, High Total Estrogen

[kQuick]

Ok I'm new here, so I just want to state that I have NEVER TAKEN STEROIDS ! But I do have a serious problem, and I'd like to see if I can get any help on the matter.

So I'm 25, and 2 years ago I started losing my hair. Long story short I took Saw Palmetto and a topical Anti-Androgen for 4 months (at the time I had no idea what an anti-androgen was....fml). Before I took it I was 195 lbs, about 10% bf, and physically felt great! within 2 weeks after stopping the supplements I felt like total crap and gained 15 pounds in 2 months of pure fat, despite lifting 3x a week and doing Interval running about 2x a week.

I then had a few physical side effects : Decreased testicle size, breast tissue changes, lots of fat gain, lower sex drive, brain fog, dry skin hair and nails.....it's really changed my body. I do not care about the hair anymore, but I want my old energetic Male body back.

So I went to a private Endo a few months ago to get some blood tests done and found out I had Low T, Low Free T, and very high Estrogen. I'm not too familiar with the conversions of each measurement and what's normal or not, but here were the results:

- Total Testosterone : 351 ng/dL
- Free Testosterone: 68.1 pg/mL
- Estrogen: 129 pg/mL
- SHBG: 32.6 nmol/L
- DHT: 27 ng/dL
- FSH: 4.2 mIU/mL
- LH: 5.6 mIU/mL
- Prolactin: 8 ng/mL

So my Endo knows she needs to increase my T and decrease Estrogen. She is recommending me take topical Testosterone cream mixed with Progesterone. I originally thought I need an Estrogen blocker, but she is somewhat reluctant to try it first because she uses it for cancer patients and says it's very strong.

What do you guys think I should be taking to get back to where I need to be? Would the topical T and Progesterone be the right solution? Or should I try to have her give me an Estrogen blocker? I'm not too experienced with hormonal balancing so I'm hoping you great people here can help I'm honestly just scared of taking topical T because I know taking outside T can shut down your bodies own ability to make it. Ugh I'm so confused and scared!!

Any help would be very appreciated, thanks.

[mbreti]

Try doing some research into Indole-3-Carbinol, and DIM... It's a natural anti-estrogenic compound found in broccoli.
Might be of use to you.

[Nicotine]

do you have a drug plan? the cost of topical gel costs far more than injectable. i'm on TRT and went the injectable route. a friend of mine who is older is on TRT, he started on the gel and hated it.

there is contact precautions with it, it stinks, messy. he also had to apply daily and felt he was never balanced.

injectable (delatestryl, 200mg/ml) has a half life of 7 days.

as for the help, it's hard for people on the net to give you advice. are you on any antidepressants or narcotic drugs for pain control?

has the doctor started you on anything yet?

[TennTarheel]

So did you take any ProHormones or anything like that? You need to get some more extensive testing done to figure out what made you have the sudden change. You'd be surprised what can affect your levels. Like mentioned above, different meds can have a huge impact. Opiates will drop your test like a bad habit

[Vettester]

I think the BIG variable was the anti-androgen medication you took. Truthfully, that stuff IMO is just poison, and should be avoided at all cost. So, in the attempt to mitigate the 5-AR DHT binding process to the appropriate receptor sites, it also defused the binding of testosterone as well. These can also down regulate gonadotropin production in the pituitary gland, however, your LH isn't too bad, FSH maybe slightly low.

Was your "Estrogen" an E2 test a sensitive assay? I would want to know the ranges as well.

Based on your current gonadotropin readings, I say it's suffice that your HPTA still has the ability to function; possibly the ability to improve. Any doctor that says an AI is only for cancer patients because it's too strong is IMO a doctor that needs to be avoided with your current predicament. I would highly encourage that you seek out a qualified physician that can review, diagnose, and treat you effectively.

If your E2 is high, then adding endogenous testosterone won't be the solution. That will only make the matter worse. I don't know how long it takes to get the previous medication out of your system, but it might just be a case that your body needs some time to reach homeostasis. Regardless, this topical test/progesterone is (once again, IMO) not the route to go!! Get with a qualified doc ASAP!

[kelkel]

^^Agree. Barring a valid causative factor diagnosis, pathology, etc. I would not jump into TRT. Like Vette said, adding T right now will fuel the fire, not correct it. An AI, properly dosed, will lower your E2 and thus raise your T level. Expanded BW may be a good choice for you to see if anything else could be the culprit here. It very well may be due to the meds you took or maybe something else as well, thyroid, cortisol, who knows. You can find BW in the Finding a Doc Sticky.

"Occams Razor" right? The most simple solution may be the best course here, which is simply time.

Remember as well that vit D will raise free T levels...

[kQuick]

I am 99% sure it was all due to the Anti-Androgen....which yes is very much poison. I was taking that along with the saw palmetto back in June 2010 to October 2010, so it was over 2 years ago. And I don't smoke, drink or take any other kinds of pills or anything. I am prescribed High Blood Pressure medication since 2008 though. And I take 50mg Zinc and 500mg Magnesium at bedtime.

My current Dr. has given me a low dose T3 medication of 5mcg, because previous blood work has showed it to be unstable, although the ranges weren't that bad or never out of range. Since then it has stayed very stable at a number she likes.

I have also taken a saliva Cortisol test. It looked like a night shift persons cortisol levels she told me, because mine were low in the morning and peaked in the late afternoon. Since then I have changed my sleeping pattern to wake up by 8am and go to bed no later than midnight to try and regulate them.

And the Estrogen test I took was just total Estrogen I think. I have never had an E2 (Estradiol?) test before. And my Estrogen was 129, when the range says anything under 130 is normal so I'm borderline high. I'm supposed to be taking a Blood test through Quest next week, but only for Total T and Total Estrogen. Is there anything else I should be looking at? I'm paying out of pocket on these tests so I'm not sure how much I can afford.

I don't think she is against ever giving me an Estrogen Blocker (I'm assuming that's an AI) but she first wants to try me on topical T mixed with topical Progesterone. But honestly this stuff is way over my head, and I'm not sure what the effects of this would be and if they could be permanent. She says the Progesterone should block the effects of Estrogen but not stop making it. I'm so lost on what to do, and just do not want to stop my body from producing T at all.

And I did not know about the Vitamin D, is this something I should consider starting asap in my current situation?

Thanks for the early responses, I appreciate it and any more advice. I think I'm going to stick around for the long haul

[TennTarheel]

Vit D3 is always good for men. From what I've understood, it helps your Free T levels. I just started taking 5000/day

[kelkel]

I really think step one should be focused BW with a sensitive Estrogen assay. If, as assumed, your sensitive panel comes in high then attack that first and lets see the outcome. At the same time add in the D as well as I'd bet your low (most are) and as stated, elevating that level will enhance Free T by lowering shbg levels (shbg binds your T.) I'd start with 5k per day and test your D (25-Hydroxy) on your next BW. D is arguably one of the most important vitamins (actually a hormone) you can take. It's in every cell in your body.

Another thought would be to enhance your DHEA-s level. It will help elevate T and help to balance out cortisol. Down side is it can impact Estrogen a little (as in raise) but if you end on an AI it is still worth considering IMO. Great for lowering LDL as well. If you do this be sure to get micronized and I'd suggest no more than 25mg per day. LEF.com's DHEA-s is all micronized and it's where I get mine as do others here.

Preg and prog are in your test pathways: chol-preg-prog-dhea-T-DHT-E, etc....It's not really a straight line pathway as they develope into other ancillaries along the way. DHEA has the ability to turn into pretty much any hormone needed by your body. Neat stuff.

It really sounds like your doc's trying hard. I just think you'd be better served trying to improve things without exogenous T first for a period of time. If it doesn't work, Test it is!

kel

[kQuick]

Yea I think I'm going to start with the Vitamin D after my text lab work. I'm going to see if I can get the sensitive Estrogen assay (do I ask for this specifically?) and also a Estradiol test, as well as Total T and Free T.

And Kelkel, that is exactly what I have been thinking all along and why I'm pretty scared. She has mentioned before she didn't want to give me Testosterone because it will probably raise Estrogen, but she says adding Progesterone will negate Estrogen effects. But what happens when I'm off the topical T and Progesterone.....won't my Estrogen just kick back in and start harming my body?