Is there a 'point of no return'?

[gbrice75]

I know there was a recent thread just like this, possibly a very similar title, but i'd prefer feedback geared towards my specific case.

The title kind of speaks for itself. I've heard of people coming off TRT (for whatever reason), but is a point reached where this just isn't possible? I've been on now for about 3 months which is no longer than a cycle for some people. But what if I wanted to come off in another 3 months? A year? Could I run an aggressive PCT and get back to (my) 'normal'? Is there a point of shutdown where there is no coming back?

[TennTarheel]

There have been guys that have been on much higher doses for much much longer periods that have been able to recover. Obviously it depends on why you started TRT in the first place. When I say recover, I only mean you will return to what your levels were at baseline before TRT. Other factors can come into play depending on if you remedied the underlying issue that was causing sub-optimal test levels in the first place, such as medications, excess body fat, thyroid issues. Then, you would be able to most likely recover to a higher level of Test than your previous baseline. Does that make sense? Basically unless you fixed the underlying issue while on HRT, then you will recover only to what you were in the first place.

[gbrice75]

There have been guys that have been on much higher doses for much much longer periods that have been able to recover. Obviously it depends on why you started TRT in the first place. When I say recover, I only mean you will return to what your levels were at baseline before TRT. Other factors can come into play depending on if you remedied the underlying issue that was causing sub-optimal test levels in the first place, such as medications, excess body fat, thyroid issues. Then, you would be able to most likely recover to a higher level of Test than your previous baseline. Does that make sense? Basically unless you fixed the underlying issue while on HRT, then you will recover only to what you were in the first place.

It does make sense, thanks for the detailed reply. I don't know the exact cause of my low T, I can only speculate it's due to years of poor diet, lack of exercise, etc. but I am definitely not primary hyopgonadal. My levels prior to TRT weren't terribly low, but low enough to start treatment. I am running HCG @ 300iu 3x weekly which I imagine can only help with regards to 'coming off'. I'm glad to hear about people still being able to recup to their relative normal level prior to treatment.

[steroid.com 1]

Tenn's got it right.

Assuming your HPTA was functioning at some level before you started you will need to get re-started with a good PCT protocol.

But as noted, you will only end up where you were before you started.

And yes, the use of HCG will make your restart much easier.

Why go back???

[gbrice75]

Tenn's got it right.

Assuming your HPTA was functioning at some level before you started you will need to get re-started with a good PCT protocol.

But as noted, you will only end up where you were before you started.

This is fine. It's as good as I can expect. Functional is better than non-functional.

And yes, the use of HCG will make your restart much easier.

Very happy to hear this!

Why go back???

It's not that i'm planning to, but I'd like to ensure I have that option should I choose to exercise it down the road. I'm 37 and 'for life' still sounds long (God willing)... who knows what's in store for me. E.g. I may lose my job (God forbid, lol) - HRT would be one of the first 'luxuries' to go, i'm quite sure of it. Also, if i'm not able to knock up my wife by let's say June 2013 (yes, i'm still on that), i'll likely come off as i'll need to rule out anything potentially working against me.

[joebailey1271]

Hey GB, I had to come off the trt to get my wife preg, I did trt for 2 years before that, but it was not an educated way of doing things, I did not do any hcg during the cycle, i did it at the end of 10 weeks, then hcg and clomid. I see on here that some guys have been able to get someone preg. while still on, i hope your that lucky.

[bass]

who knows what's in store for me. E.g. I may lose my job (God forbid, lol) - HRT would be one of the first 'luxuries' to go, i'm quite sure of it.

this is why most of us stock up! tell your doc you're injecting 50mgs more than you actually are, and within few months you'll have good backup supply. if you ever have second thoughts for continuing TRT just think how you felt before you started. all of the guys i know who tried coming off felt miserable and couldn't wait to get back on. its really essential to look forward once you start TRT, the quality of life is far batter.

[JD250]

Tenn's got it right.

Assuming your HPTA was functioning at some level before you started you will need to get re-started with a good PCT protocol.

But as noted, you will only end up where you were before you started.

And yes, the use of HCG will make your restart much easier.

Why go back???

This does make sense and is widely accepted as an absolute but I'm not sure that's the case, I'm not entirely familair with GBrice situation but there are cases of people restarting or kickstarting with an aggressive PCT BEFORE they try TRT. yes? So unless he has actually tried an agressive PCT I doubt anyone could say 100% how he would react. Lots of variables but as to the original question I would say the point of no return is that point when you either can't restart or realize that time is against you and decide to OPTIMIZE your levels. When it happens, burn the bridge and don't look back, you'll be better off with a LIFETIME outlook and plan.

[bigboy67]

well, this may not be a popular thought on here, but I personally think some guys SHOULD come off TRT once they have reached a certain point with their diet, exercise, experience, etc. Here's my personal experience. I started off with very low T, like 216 if memory serves. I have had nothing but positives from TRT. BUT, I would also point this out... when I started, I was 270 lbs, 32% BF, couldn't maintain a strong exercise program, didn't maintain a healthy diet, etc. Once I get down to about 210, OR close to 10% BF, I will come off TRT.

Reason being, I will be running much more optimally, and my body may be able to generate a much better hormonal balance at 210 10% BF than it did at 270 with 32% BF. I also convert testosterone pretty well. I want to know 100% that TRT is my ONLY option before signing off on a lifetime of needle sticks. If I have a healthy Total and Free Test numbers and feel well enough, I will likely come off for good.

[JD250]

That's very interesting BB.... keep us posted on what transpires.

[HRTstudent]

Yes do update us.

If I ever come off I will make a thread about it.

If I was 35+, however, I don't think id consider coming off. Our bodies (slowly) drop their T production anyways. And it's not like most of us had much going in the first place lol.

[TennTarheel]

well, this may not be a popular thought on here, but I personally think some guys SHOULD come off TRT once they have reached a certain point with their diet, exercise, experience, etc. Here's my personal experience. I started off with very low T, like 216 if memory serves. I have had nothing but positives from TRT. BUT, I would also point this out... when I started, I was 270 lbs, 32% BF, couldn't maintain a strong exercise program, didn't maintain a healthy diet, etc. Once I get down to about 210, OR close to 10% BF, I will come off TRT.

Reason being, I will be running much more optimally, and my body may be able to generate a much better hormonal balance at 210 10% BF than it did at 270 with 32% BF. I also convert testosterone pretty well. I want to know 100% that TRT is my ONLY option before signing off on a lifetime of needle sticks. If I have a healthy Total and Free Test numbers and feel well enough, I will likely come off for good.

This is what I meant by , "unless you remedy an issue that is holding back your natural hormone balance", you will just go back to what you started with. BUT, if things have been fixed such as thyroid, weight, etc, then you very well may recover to a higher TT than you had before. I even started a whole thread about the Myth that Once someone is on TRT then they are on for life. I got condemned for it, so it's good to see some of those same people actually Getting IT

[gbrice75]

Hey GB, I had to come off the trt to get my wife preg, I did trt for 2 years before that, but it was not an educated way of doing things, I did not do any hcg during the cycle, i did it at the end of 10 weeks, then hcg and clomid. I see on here that some guys have been able to get someone preg. while still on, i hope your that lucky.

Me too buddy, me too! I know 2 guys who are on TRT (and have been for years) and both just got their respective wives preg!! So the idea that you cannot is absolute BS, as we've seen time and time again. I think it boils down to the individual. I know I was healthy (from a fertility standpoint) prior to TRT as I got my wife pregnant late in 2010.

this is why most of us stock up! tell your doc you're injecting 50mgs more than you actually are, and within few months you'll have good backup supply. if you ever have second thoughts for continuing TRT just think how you felt before you started. all of the guys i know who tried coming off felt miserable and couldn't wait to get back on. its really essential to look forward once you start TRT, the quality of life is far batter.

I hear you... but realistically... how long would that backup last me... a couple months at best? I'd need to find a way to continue, or come off all together. Even if only temporarily.

This does make sense and is widely accepted as an absolute but I'm not sure that's the case, I'm not entirely familair with GBrice situation but there are cases of people restarting or kickstarting with an aggressive PCT BEFORE they try TRT. yes? So unless he has actually tried an agressive PCT I doubt anyone could say 100% how he would react. Lots of variables but as to the original question I would say the point of no return is that point when you either can't restart or realize that time is against you and decide to OPTIMIZE your levels. When it happens, burn the bridge and don't look back, you'll be better off with a LIFETIME outlook and plan.

Thanks for your input JD.

well, this may not be a popular thought on here, but I personally think some guys SHOULD come off TRT once they have reached a certain point with their diet, exercise, experience, etc. Here's my personal experience. I started off with very low T, like 216 if memory serves. I have had nothing but positives from TRT. BUT, I would also point this out... when I started, I was 270 lbs, 32% BF, couldn't maintain a strong exercise program, didn't maintain a healthy diet, etc. Once I get down to about 210, OR close to 10% BF, I will come off TRT.

Reason being, I will be running much more optimally, and my body may be able to generate a much better hormonal balance at 210 10% BF than it did at 270 with 32% BF. I also convert testosterone pretty well. I want to know 100% that TRT is my ONLY option before signing off on a lifetime of needle sticks. If I have a healthy Total and Free Test numbers and feel well enough, I will likely come off for good.

Interesting theory, i'd love to follow your progress. Please keep us posted!

[kelkel]

This is what I meant by , "unless you remedy an issue that is holding back your natural hormone balance", you will just go back to what you started with. BUT, if things have been fixed such as thyroid, weight, etc, then you very well may recover to a higher TT than you had before. I even started a whole thread about the Myth that Once someone is on TRT then they are on for life. I got condemned for it, so it's good to see some of those same people actually Getting IT

Very well said Tenn!

[bigboy67]

Me too buddy, me too! I know 2 guys who are on TRT (and have been for years) and both just got their respective wives preg!! So the idea that you cannot is absolute BS, as we've seen time and time again. I think it boils down to the individual. I know I was healthy (from a fertility standpoint) prior to TRT as I got my wife pregnant late in 2010.

I have one baby and one on the way, both made while on TRT. Don't believe the hype, if you aren't careful (or if you are actively trying) it can easily happen

[gbrice75]

I have one baby and one on the way, both made while on TRT. Don't believe the hype, if you aren't careful (or if you are actively trying) it can easily happen

^^ always happy to hear this kind of thing, and congrats!!

[bass]

I hear you... but realistically... how long would that backup last me... a couple months at best? I'd need to find a way to continue, or come off all together. Even if only temporarily.

i have at least two years backup!

[gbrice75]

i have at least two years backup!

Then you've been on forever!!

[J DIESEL3]

Easy to do being most only use 2 to 3 10cc bottles a year.

[bass]

Then you've been on forever!!

no just under two years, i am prescribed 200 mgs ew but only use 100 ew, so within one year i can have a one year backup.

[bass]

also like to add, in my case i was supplied by my x doctor and when i saw a new doc she gave me a new prescription, thats how i got two years worth!

[APIs]

But as noted, you will only end up where you were before you started.

I've heard after years of TRT it can be diffcult to reach even your baseline numbers after coming off. Even with aggressive PCT. I don't know how true this is, but hope I never have to find out...

[TennTarheel]

"Supposedly" the longer you are on, then the longer it takes to get to natural homeostasis, which obviously makes sense. I guess we have to also keep in mind that the longer someone is on, the more drop they would have had in their baseline levels anyways since most guys in late 20s or early 30s are starting the all too lovely testosterone decline party.

[brazilian86]

I'm 26 and been on for 1 yr and a half... Don' plan to come off. Everything is better and hralthier for me. Plus i have Chrons disease and it helps me eat and have a great life. Needles and injections are only twice a week.... No big deal

[marcus300]

Don't know if I have missed something here but why would you want to come off TRT when in the first place the reason why you went on was to feel normal again and to stop all the horrible sides of low testosterone ?

[gbrice75]

no just under two years, i am prescribed 200 mgs ew but only use 100 ew, so within one year i can have a one year backup.

Nice!

also like to add, in my case i was supplied by my x doctor and when i saw a new doc she gave me a new prescription, thats how i got two years worth!

lol... I think any of us would do the same!

I've heard after years of TRT it can be diffcult to reach even your baseline numbers after coming off. Even with aggressive PCT. I don't know how true this is, but hope I never have to find out...

Where did you hear this? From people you know, or just somewhere in general on the web? I'm not debating it, just curious.

"Supposedly" the longer you are on, then the longer it takes to get to natural homeostasis, which obviously makes sense. I guess we have to also keep in mind that the longer someone is on, the more drop they would have had in their baseline levels anyways since most guys in late 20s or early 30s are starting the all too lovely testosterone decline party.

This all makes perfect sense, especially the latter part. Even without being on TRT, one would likely have declined anyway. No different when coming off and trying bring levels back to baseline.

Don't know if I have missed something here but why would you want to come off TRT when in the first place the reason why you went on was to feel normal again and to stop all the horrible sides of low testosterone?

I did address this earlier, but for you old man, I will answer it again!

I have no current plan to come off, but I'd like to know if that option will be available to me should I need/want to in the future. We never know what's in store for us. I'm 37 and (hopefully) have a lot of life left. I would just like to have options available to me.

[marcus300]

^^^ Cant see it being an option when you need testosterone to feel normal because your don't produce it naturally....why would you need to come off or want to come off?

[gbrice75]

^^^ Cant see it being an option when you need testosterone to feel normal because your don't produce it naturally....why would you need to come off or want to come off?

Other than financial reasons (i.e. losing a job, fall on hard times, etc. - God forbid), I can't foresee any. Well, that and if I find i'm having trouble getting my wife pregnant. But again, I can't predict the future... or think up every possible scenario that might require me to consider coming off. For the foreseeable future, i'm in for the long haul.

[bass]

this was my fear too GB, but we can't live based on what if something happens, something happens everyday and you deal with it one way or another. for me I'll do what i can do today and worry about what ifs when they happen. if you base your life on what ifs then you're just stressing yourself. looking forward in life is the key to successful life.

[TennTarheel]

I think there is a difference in stressing over the future, and making sure you've got options and preparation for the future.

[marcus300]

Other than financial reasons (i.e. losing a job, fall on hard times, etc. - God forbid), I can't foresee any. Well, that and if I find i'm having trouble getting my wife pregnant. But again, I can't predict the future... or think up every possible scenario that might require me to consider coming off. For the foreseeable future, i'm in for the long haul.

Ahh right GB understand now, its different in the UK and trt is free if your unemployed or just a few dollars if your working.

[gbrice75]

I think there is a difference in stressing over the future, and making sure you've got options and preparation for the future.

^^ exactly this. Not stressing at all Bass, just a planner.

Ahh right GB understand now, its different in the UK and trt is free if your unemployed or just a few dollars if your working.

Yep.... the wonderful fcking healthcare we have in the states has me paying 100% out of pocket. Oh, somehow my adex was covered. Yay. The cheapest drug of them all was covered.

[TennTarheel]

You think healthcare is bad now?? 50% of our country just guaranteed us having TERRIBLE Obamacare. The other 50% gets to pay for it!

Our whole country is FCKED

[juice2012]

I was so quick to jump on TRT at the ripe age of 28 mainly because:

A) I was really desperate, feeling terrible and needed some kind of treatment

B) It's relatively cheap, even paying cash for Cypionate it's at max 3 vial per year, so about $240 per year. Adex costs me out of pocket and it's only like $40 a year tops. So under $300 per year for total treatment not counting doctors visits and bloodwork, but once you get your dosage all figured out you just need the drugs. I probably spend $300 a MONTH just eating at restaurants.

C) I'm optimistic about the future of medicine. Nebido is already out in the UK. that could take my 100+ injections a year (2x a week) down to less than 6 per year! I'm only 28, I'm sure with all the advancements in medicine I won't be still injecting Cypionate in 2042.

[TennTarheel]

I was so quick to jump on TRT at the ripe age of 28 mainly because:

A) I was really desperate, feeling terrible and needed some kind of treatment

B) It's relatively cheap, even paying cash for Cypionate it's at max 3 vial per year, so about $240 per year. Adex costs me out of pocket and it's only like $40 a year tops. So under $300 per year for total treatment not counting doctors visits and bloodwork, but once you get your dosage all figured out you just need the drugs. I probably spend $300 a MONTH just eating at restaurants.

C) I'm optimistic about the future of medicine. Nebido is already out in the UK. that could take my 100+ injections a year (2x a week) down to less than 6 per year! I'm only 28, I'm sure with all the advancements in medicine I won't be still injecting Cypionate in 2042.

That's the problem. Companies are already slowing down with anymore advancement bc of their fear for the economic collapse since retard is Prez for 4 more years. Obamacare is putting a hault to advancement. They are just going to try to survive at the status quo. Sad

[bass]

You think health care is bad now?? 50% of our country just guaranteed us having TERRIBLE Obamacare. The other 50% gets to pay for it!

Our whole country is FCKED

you just opened a new can of worms! O****ingBamaCrap! i am getting sick just thinking how he's screwing our health care, our country for that mater.

[TennTarheel]

you just opened a new can of worms! O****ingBamaCrap! i am getting sick just thinking how he's screwing our health care, our country for that mater.

It truly does make me sick. I'm still in shock and seriously dread the collapse of our nation as WE know it. I guess maybe it'll work out fine for all the welfare population. Maybe

[MyteeJ]

Really glad to see these posts and that others share that same uneasiness of possibly having to stop TRT for whatever reason.

I am very early on with my TRT and the gains are amazing but I have my "reserve" set aside in the event I ever have to stop.

I was able to get back to the strength/lifting levels that I had in my prime (20's) and I echo the sentiments of others who see this as a luxury. I guess this serves as good motivation to kick a** with my career so i never have to worry about making a TRT sacrifice.

Cheers

J

[bass]

Really glad to see these posts and that others share that same uneasiness of possibly having to stop TRT for whatever reason.

I am very early on with my TRT and the gains are amazing but I have my "reserve" set aside in the event I ever have to stop.

I was able to get back to the strength/lifting levels that I had in my prime (20's) and I echo the sentiments of others who see this as a luxury. I guess this serves as good motivation to kick a** with my career so i never have to worry about making a TRT sacrifice.

Cheers

J

thats what i mean by looking forward not back-words!

[MyteeJ]

thats what i mean by looking forward not back-words!

LOL f Yeah Bass!

Ahh well now that I am older I should be happy and grateful that I found a means to actually have that energy and drive again!

Hope everyone had a good lifting/training weekend and stays healthy.