My Current Situation with HRT (read: terrible)

**MD2B** · 11-16-2012, 01:55 PM

edit: piss moan piss moan, etc etc

**juice2012** · 11-16-2012, 02:06 PM

Wow, that's a terrible situation to be in, indeed. Do you have enough T to last you until January? 200mg/week is REALLY high to start off with. You should cut that dose in half and see how you feel and where your hematocrit is.

**xcraider37** · 11-16-2012, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by MD2B

So...I've been on HRT for five weeks at 200mg of testosterone cypionate per week. I've felt better than I ever have in my entire life and for the first time in my life was able to successfully have great sex with my wife and my well-being and self esteem improved dramatically. In those five weeks I had to search like hell to find a physician who knew anything about HCG and fertility and finally found an HRT specialist whom I see in early January. That's good, because my current physician said he knew nothing about HCG and isn't comfortable with it. Initially he said he would refer me to an endo and I waited for two weeks and he never did (he said expect a call within a week from an endo, never happened).

So everything was going great until I ran a test for hematocrit which came back at 49.9%, ouch, a bit high. So I tell my doctor about it and he says that's normal. Ok, well I am an educated individual and already know that's 5% over average for a male so maybe I just run high. Or maybe, just maybe, it's the well documented fact that testosterone supplementation causes a rise in hematocrit... I test again a week later, it comes back 51.1%, I report to my doctor again. I can tell he's getting frustrated with me running my own tests and his staff appear tired of hearing from me... His nurse calls and says thats completely normal. I said why does the lab read "abnormal" in bolded letters? I think to myself ok I will just take matters into my own hands and go donate blood....and I get rejected because I use HRT, "you need your doctor's permission, he will have to fill out this form and fax it to us".

I bring the form into his office...I get a call back, "the doctor will not prescribe phlebotomy for you as your is normal"... I think ok man, I'll just retest until it gets to freaking 60 and maybe he'll listen then (at this point you can tell I'm getting pissed because that's a stupid idea). That happened yesterday, today I get a phonse call "Nathan, this is your doctor's office please give us a call back asap". I call back and the answering machine says "we're out for a week for thanksgiving". I'm now even more pissed, they literally left that message two minutes ago, TWO MINUTES AGO.

I drive down there...they're not happy to see me, they probably think I'm some hypochondriac at this point "bugging the doctor". The nurse comes out and says we're closed. I said I literally just received a call to call back and it kept going directly to voice mail and i know you're all out for a week after today so I want to know why I was called. The other nurse comes out and says "The doctor said to stop testosterone treatment completely because your hematocrit is too high and follow up with a different doctor".

....

I don't see my new doctor until early January...so I'm just supposed to suffer for 6-7 weeks over the holidays I suppose. I'm significantly depressed, angry, and frustrated so I am not going to make any decisions in this state of mind. I suppose this was also my way of venting as well but suggestions would be good too.
What are my options here guys...?

Why did you tell the donation place that you are on trt? The red cross does not ask and it is not on their banned list. The biggest problem you have is your probably on too high a dose, should start at 100 per week. Why are you suffering do you have symptoms from borderline high hematocrit? One thing were you well hydrated prior to your BW? That can make a huge difference in your results.

**HRTstudent** · 11-16-2012, 04:46 PM

That's actually not a very rare thing for a doc to do when they simply don't know what they're doing.

Is it the right thing? Maybe. It is definitely an inhuman way to do things though when it's so rude and nasty like that.

Like someone else mentioned, your dose is probably too high. The minority of people need 200mg per week. What does that have your levels at?

You're probably not going to die of a heart attack from a hematocrit of 51 for a couple months...

**bigboy67** · 11-16-2012, 05:28 PM

No doctor worth his diploma would EVER just tell you to stop hormone treatments cold turkey....

Go give a pint of blood, it will straighten your HCT level right out, no worries. Mine was 57 the other week, you will be just fine

**JohnnyVegas** · 11-16-2012, 05:33 PM

I am surprised TRT came up. The only questions that seem to pertain to it are the "have you taken any drugs not prescribed by your doctor in the past XX months?" I say no because, well, it is the truth.

**bp2000** · 11-16-2012, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by MD2B

So...I've been on HRT for five weeks at 200mg of testosterone cypionate per week. I've felt better than I ever have in my entire life and for the first time in my life was able to successfully have great sex with my wife and my well-being and self esteem improved dramatically. In those five weeks I had to search like hell to find a physician who knew anything about HCG and fertility and finally found an HRT specialist whom I see in early January. That's good, because my current physician said he knew nothing about HCG and isn't comfortable with it. Initially he said he would refer me to an endo and I waited for two weeks and he never did (he said expect a call within a week from an endo, never happened).

So everything was going great until I ran a test for hematocrit which came back at 49.9%, ouch, a bit high. So I tell my doctor about it and he says that's normal. Ok, well I am an educated individual and already know that's 5% over average for a male so maybe I just run high. Or maybe, just maybe, it's the well documented fact that testosterone supplementation causes a rise in hematocrit... I test again a week later, it comes back 51.1%, I report to my doctor again. I can tell he's getting frustrated with me running my own tests and his staff appear tired of hearing from me... His nurse calls and says thats completely normal. I said why does the lab read "abnormal" in bolded letters? I think to myself ok I will just take matters into my own hands and go donate blood....and I get rejected because I use HRT, "you need your doctor's permission, he will have to fill out this form and fax it to us".

I bring the form into his office...I get a call back, "the doctor will not prescribe phlebotomy for you as your is normal"... I think ok man, I'll just retest until it gets to freaking 60 and maybe he'll listen then (at this point you can tell I'm getting pissed because that's a stupid idea). That happened yesterday, today I get a phonse call "Nathan, this is your doctor's office please give us a call back asap". I call back and the answering machine says "we're out for a week for thanksgiving". I'm now even more pissed, they literally left that message two minutes ago, TWO MINUTES AGO.

I drive down there...they're not happy to see me, they probably think I'm some hypochondriac at this point "bugging the doctor". The nurse comes out and says we're closed. I said I literally just received a call to call back and it kept going directly to voice mail and i know you're all out for a week after today so I want to know why I was called. The other nurse comes out and says "The doctor said to stop testosterone treatment completely because your hematocrit is too high and follow up with a different doctor".

....

I don't see my new doctor until early January...so I'm just supposed to suffer for 6-7 weeks over the holidays I suppose. I'm significantly depressed, angry, and frustrated so I am not going to make any decisions in this state of mind. I suppose this was also my way of venting as well but suggestions would be good too.
What are my options here guys...?

You are fine. blood docs say no problem until 55%. Stay well hydrated if you are overly concerned lower dose to 150 per week. 200mg is the high end of TRT.

**bp2000** · 11-16-2012, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by JohnnyVegas

I am surprised TRT came up. The only questions that seem to pertain to it are the "have you taken any drugs not prescribed by your doctor in the past XX months?" I say no because, well, it is the truth.

Yeah I'm sure he coudl go to another place and "fail to mention" he was on TRT don't see an issue there only on for 5 weeks.

**junk2222yard** · 11-16-2012, 05:43 PM

Really irritating and unfair situation. Totally unprofessional doctor -- so you are better off without him.

If I were in your shoes, here is what I would do:

1. try to give blood at another clinic, and tell them whatever you have need in order to avoid getting kicked out again, and give a pint of blood
2. if that fails, I would go to as many walk in clinics as required, explain your situation truthfully, and ask them how to proceed
3. if that failed, I would go to the emergency room and do the same thing

One of these things will sort it out.

Also, if I was really steamed after sorting it out, I would pursue formally complaining about that doctor, and at the very least do a write up on a couple of the "Rate MD" websites.

**bass** · 11-16-2012, 05:51 PM

i agree with the above, you will be fine just find another blood drive and give blood, don't volunteer any information unless you're asked, just say no if you're asked about TRT or sticking yourself with needles. as mentioned above, drink more water and take baby aspirin every night to help thin your blood. don't stress your self, you will only make things worse. my hematocrit was hovering aver 50% for a long time and i was fine.

**MD2B** · 11-16-2012, 05:52 PM

This wasn't red cross, I mentioned having a high-ish hematocrit and they then started asking questions and I mentioned HRT believing that it wouldn't be an issue and it definitely was.

**bass** · 11-16-2012, 05:53 PM

red cross are very strict.

**MD2B** · 11-16-2012, 06:15 PM

edit

**APIs** · 11-16-2012, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by MD2B

What's funny is the doctor advised me to not try to look things up online or on forums...but I've learned more here and found a greater knowledge base in this forum than in my doctor's office...

I have a different opinion here. Yes, be educated. But don't go knocking on your Doctor's door just because you think something's wrong. No offense, but you definitely spooked the guy & rightly so from what you typed. Chill out, I hover around 49 and like someone else said 55 & below is OK in many doctors eyes. Plus, you're not going over 55 in one or two weeks time anyway...

**MD2B** · 11-16-2012, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by APIs

I have a different opinion here. Yes, be educated. But don't go knocking on your Doctor's door just because you think something's wrong. No offense, but you definitely spooked the guy & rightly so from what you typed. Chill out, I hover around 49 and like someone else said 55 & below is OK in many doctors eyes. Plus, you're not going over 55 in one or two weeks time anyway...

No offense taken but I'm not sure what you mean by "you definitely spooked the guy and rightly so from what you typed". It wasn't my intention to overwhelm or irritate the guy so it would be good to know what I did that may have done that. I had medical questions and looked to my doctor for guidance. The lab range I used tops at 50% for normal and its urged here rather urgently to take hematocrit seriously in precaution of stroke and heart attack. This is what influenced my actions which seemed reasonable with all previously mentioned. I'm relieved to know it's not necessary to take this that seriously, still learning.

**kelkel** · 11-16-2012, 07:29 PM

MD you'll be fine cutting your dose, keeping your fluids up, baby aspirin, etc. Don't get hooked on that 200 number. It's just a number and don't think that's the only one you'll feel good at. We've talked alot about this, you'll be fine!

kel

**HEVEW8** · 11-16-2012, 10:29 PM

Please delete my extra post.

**HEVEW8** · 11-16-2012, 10:30 PM

Hey man, I don't know about you but my hemacrite was at 53.3 and I felt short of breath and my ears ring, my blood pressure was high, i had brain fog, and itchy skin after a hot shower. I tried to donate and was denied because my iron was too high,(18.6%) . I had my doctor proscribe me a phlibodomy, and now I feel great. My weekly dose was 50mg twice a week, and I have cut it down to 30mg twice a week. I still get hard erections and feel better. I go back in two weeks to re-test... I wish I would have donated sooner when the vets on here advised me, but I was feeling great and thought I could get away without having to do it.... I'm hoping that by donating often I can up my dose again and stay at 50mg x2 a week. I also drink more water.

**Vettester** · 11-16-2012, 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by APIs

I have a different opinion here. Yes, be educated. But don't go knocking on your Doctor's door just because you think something's wrong. No offense, but you definitely spooked the guy & rightly so from what you typed. Chill out, I hover around 49 and like someone else said 55 & below is OK in many doctors eyes. Plus, you're not going over 55 in one or two weeks time anyway...

^^ This ^^

**HRTstudent** · 11-16-2012, 11:47 PM

I think most people feel shittier when their hematocrit goes too high. I say that because what you're saying HEVEW8 pops up time and time again.

I just donated maybe 2 weeks ago and I feel "cleaner" if you can understand that, as in a slight relief. Blood pressure probably has a lot to do with it. Thick blood is nothing to **** with!

**APIs** · 11-17-2012, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by MD2B

No offense taken but I'm not sure what you mean by "you definitely spooked the guy and rightly so from what you typed". It wasn't my intention to overwhelm or irritate the guy so it would be good to know what I did that may have done that. I had medical questions and looked to my doctor for guidance.

For the Doctor/Patient relationship to work effectively, we as Patients have certain responsibilities & must conduct ourselves in a manner that fosters mutual respect for one another. Being the patient does not give one the right to fly off the handle and repeatedly call demanding answers to perceived problems. It was incorrect of you to physically knock on his door after receiving that telephone message. Such actions could be perceived as abnormal behavior. If the office did not answer, you could have simply waited awhile until his after-hours answering service came on-line. You then could have given them a message & the Doctor would have been paged with your concerns. He surely would have called you back. Just a thought for your next Doctor visit. We've seen other members on this forum lose Doctors because they push inappropriately in demanding answers and/or treatment. There's a way to go-about things...

**MD2B** · 11-17-2012, 01:06 PM

I made mistakes, chalking it up to a lesson learned and moving forward.

**MD2B** · 11-17-2012, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by APIs;6263***

For the Doctor/Patient relationship to work effectively, we as Patients have certain responsibilities & must conduct ourselves in a manner that fosters mutual respect for one another. Being the patient does not give one the right to fly off the handle and repeatedly call demanding answers to perceived problems. It was incorrect of you to physically knock on his door after receiving that telephone message. Such actions could be perceived as abnormal behavior. If the office did not answer, you could have simply waited awhile until his after-hours answering service came on-line. You then could have given them a message & the Doctor would have been paged with your concerns. He surely would have called you back. Just a thought for your next Doctor visit. We've seen other members on this forum lose Doctors because they push inappropriately in demanding answers and/or treatment. There's a way to go-about things...

The reason I drove to his office is because when I returned his call it stated "we close at noon today and will be closed all next week for the holidays", meaning I would not have any idea what I was called for for 10 days as it was already past noon. I didn't physically knock on his door I just walked into the waiting room and stated I couldn't get through via phone and was returning a phone call before they left for ten days and I'd have no way of knowing what it is I was to do. I don't find any of that unreasonable but you may, that's fine. You don't call a patient minutes before closing for 10 days with doctor's orders and tell them to call you back knowing there's no way for them to reach you for an extended period.

**APIs** · 11-17-2012, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by MD2B

You don't call a patient minutes before closing for 10 days with doctor's orders and tell them to call you back knowing there's no way for them to reach you for an extended period.

Again; "After-hours answering service". LOL, I'll shut-up now. Glad you've ironed this all out...

**MD2B** · 11-17-2012, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by APIs

Again; "After-hours answering service". LOL, I'll shut-up now. Glad you've ironed this all out...

Damn it, you're probably right Lol. Ironed out alright... what a mess. Oh well, I learn lessons the hard way unfortunately...par for the course.

**TennTarheel** · 11-17-2012, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by MD2B

Had time to let the dust settle and just going to close this by saying what I've learned from all this bullshit.

I had zero knowledge that "55 and below is OK in many doctors eyes". Had I knew that none of this would have even occurred. What I did know was how pushed it is here to donate blood and keep hematocrit down and throwing around words like stroke and heart attack to emphasize that point on this forum so I acted accordingly when my blood results came back higher than the normal range. I knew I couldn't donate blood without doctor's order (I now know that's not true you just keep your damn mouth shut about being on HRT). Knowing what I do now did I make way too big of a deal about it? Hell yes. Did I trust my doctor? Hell no. Did that insult him when I came back with another hematocrit concern because it kept increasing? Probably, it showed I didn't trust him or respect his medical opinion.

What I've learned from this is to just not focus so hard on all these details as it's just not worth the stress. I mean **** I didn't even have any negative symptoms and still don't, I was going completely off of blood work and I still went to the doctor about it which is stupid. I've been acting like a damn hypochondriac and I don't like that one bit, that's not me. If you're going to go on TRT there will be risks and you need to weigh the benefits to risks to see if that's ok with you, if it's ok then let go and just live your life. Running labs every week and micromanaging constantly is no way to live your life. Guys in the 60's and 70's did bigger cycles than any of us on TRT for months at a time and probably didn't know what the word hematocrit is and likely did recreational drugs on top of it for crying out loud. I've only been on TRT for five weeks and was stressing that hard about it which is ridiculous. At least I can laugh about it now but I have been WAY too wound tight about this. When I see my new doctor who is an HRT specialist (if I even decide to) I'm going to keep my mouth shut and focus on things like living as awesome life as possible and not wasting time stressing. If I feel like shit, I'll tell him "I feel like shit". If I feel great, he won't be seeing much of me unless for check ups where there I will tell him "I feel great".

I made mistakes and own them, chalking it up to a lesson learned and moving forward.

Hell, guys in the 60s or 70s? Guys in the 2010s are doing way way heavier amounts than HRT doses. I'm sure plenty of the guys here have done way larger amounts with zero issues. I do think that reading this forum can lead someone to have hypochondriacal thoughts. But I think it's probably better to be more on the careful side than to be on the more FCUK IT attitude side.

**MD2B** · 11-17-2012, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by TennTarheel

Hell, guys in the 60s or 70s? Guys in the 2010s are doing way way heavier amounts than HRT doses. I'm sure plenty of the guys here have done way larger amounts with zero issues. I do think that reading this forum can lead someone to have hypochondriacal thoughts. But I think it's probably better to be more on the careful side than to be on the more FCUK IT attitude side.

I don't know bro, don't knock the FCUK IT attitude and all the intravenous drug abuse and unprotected sex, while taking the Lord's name in vain that goes with it until ya tried it.

**TennTarheel** · 11-17-2012, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by MD2B

I don't know bro, don't knock the FCUK IT attitude and all the intravenous drug abuse and unprotected sex, while taking the Lord's name in vain that goes with it until ya tried it.

Wow, now that's a good party!

**HRTstudent** · 11-17-2012, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by APIs

Again; "After-hours answering service". LOL, I'll shut-up now. Glad you've ironed this all out...

In my experience, after hours answering services are a joke. Unless the doctor really cares about his patients (this one didn't seem to be like that) then they won't bother unless it is a true emergency or acutely life threatening.

It's best to leave doctor's like this sooner than later.

Doctors who genuinely care are easy to spot and appreciate, once you're in their care.

**HRTstudent** · 11-17-2012, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by MD2B

The reason I drove to his office is because when I returned his call it stated "we close at noon today and will be closed all next week for the holidays", meaning I would not have any idea what I was called for for 10 days as it was already past noon. I didn't physically knock on his door I just walked into the waiting room and stated I couldn't get through via phone and was returning a phone call before they left for ten days and I'd have no way of knowing what it is I was to do. I don't find any of that unreasonable but you may, that's fine. You don't call a patient minutes before closing for 10 days with doctor's orders and tell them to call you back knowing there's no way for them to reach you for an extended period.

I've done similar...

I know where you were at in the medical "game." You are truly at their mercy - your day to day life is shit - and yet they tell you "the doctor can't take your call/email/concern right now."

Its devastating to morale.