Just saw Endo. Arrogant idiot

[TennTarheel]

So I was referred to an Endo that had supposedly run the fertility clinic at Vanderbilt and two other hospitals blah blah blah. He said he knows of the docs I named, Crisler, etc. and that they were not looking out for health, only money. I argued until I literally couldn't take it. I had tons of printouts and info with me that he glanced over. He said "Show me some peer reviewed studies then we'll talk. Show me some real medical journal write ups, not self published."

Anyways, he said HCG is useless without HMG. Says it will only affect 2% total volume of testicles. And he doesn't get anyone's Test levels over 500 bc there are no health benefits past that point. I was so pissed off.

[MuscleInk]

So I was referred to an Endo that had supposedly run the fertility clinic at Vanderbilt and two other hospitals blah blah blah. He said he knows of the docs I named, Crisler, etc. and that they were not looking out for health, only money. I argued until I literally couldn't take it. I had tons of printouts and info with me that he glanced over. He said "Show me some peer reviewed studies then we'll talk. Show me some real medical journal write ups, not self published."

Anyways, he said HCG is useless without HMG. Says it will only affect 2% total volume of testicles. And he doesn't get anyone's Test levels over 500 bc there are no health benefits past that point. I was so pissed off.

With respect to test levels, yes, from an Endo's view point. They aren't going to treat you and get your test levels much beyond 500 because for most men, this is sufficient. Body building of course is a different matter but no Endo or TRT clinic will treat a patient beyond 500-600. In fact, most will dose reduce or cut your therapy if your levels exceed 600.

[kelkel]

Arrogant and dismissive. Bingo! You can bet when he goes on TRT he'll be past 500!

[Rusty11]

Uh-oh...my latest bw for t came in at 589. Guess I'll be cut off soon. J/k. Seriously though, my endo is not arrogant, just completely dismissive when i mention things like high estrogen, etc... Thankfully, as of now, I dont need anything besides the test gel. If i do, he won't help. Some drs really get their panties in a bunch when u educate yourself. I think they feel foolish, so dismissiveness is their defense mechanism. No matter how meek and mild u present the facts to them, they just can't handle it and/or just don't care.

So, what's your next step?

EDIT: Sorry, should have started the post with...What a shame that he wouldn't listen and was such an arrogant jerk. Hopefully, you'll find someone who can meet your needs.

With respect to test levels, yes, from an Endo's view point. They aren't going to treat you and get your test levels much beyond 500 because for most men, this is sufficient. Body building of course is a different matter but no Endo or TRT clinic will treat a patient beyond 500-600. In fact, most will dose reduce or cut your therapy if your levels exceed 600.

[TennTarheel]

With respect to test levels, yes, from an Endo's view point. They aren't going to treat you and get your test levels much beyond 500 because for most men, this is sufficient. Body building of course is a different matter but no Endo or TRT clinic will treat a patient beyond 500-600. In fact, most will dose reduce or cut your therapy if your levels exceed 600.

Honestly, that is very far from the truth. MOST TRT clinics want you in optimal range, which for me would put me at 800-1000. Even the first doc I saw said he wanted me around 900.

[HRTstudent]

Sounds somewhat similar to the stuff I heard what I went to an endo. Now you know why so many of us are down on diabetes docs for TRT... I mean endocrinologists for TRT.

[joebailey1271]

Makes me wonder what else they do not treat effectively since they miss the mark on trt so bad. I talked to a compound pharmacist where i live, he advertised test therapy but only offers the cream, and when I asked him about HCG , he said he does not usually see give out HC3, yea he said HC3. So after that I didnt even ask much further, wanted me to pay 200+ for a spit test. He said that they dont do blood test due to the cream not showing up, only saliva. This is a real pharmacist too.

[HRTstudent]

Makes me wonder what else they do not treat effectively since they miss the mark on trt so bad. I talked to a compound pharmacist where i live, he advertised test therapy but only offers the cream, and when I asked him about HCG, he said he does not usually see give out HC3, yea he said HC3. So after that I didnt even ask much further, wanted me to pay 200+ for a spit test. He said that they dont do blood test due to the cream not showing up, only saliva. This is a real pharmacist too.

That's really bad on multiple levels.... very sad and a medical adviser like that you wouldn't expect to know much because it shows such a gross lack of training.

[joebailey1271]

Yea i know, i even said did u say HC3, and he said yeah, I even repeated HCG , and he said oh, yeah hes not too familiar with it being given by the doctors he goes through.

[HRTstudent]

lol, clearly a guy up to date on the last decades research in HRT.

[lovbyts]

DAMN seems like a common theme where 99% of endos know nothing. My may not know much but when my test levels were 720 he said it wasnt a problem. When they were 1200 one time he just said maybe I was spiking and to re test in a couple of months but to test the day before next injection. He says if I feel ok/good then that is what counts but he also will have nothing to do with HCG or anything else and says if I want that to go see a fertility doctor. Good enough since he writes me for 6mo at a time.

[MyteeJ]

So I was referred to an Endo that had supposedly run the fertility clinic at Vanderbilt and two other hospitals blah blah blah. He said he knows of the docs I named, Crisler, etc. and that they were not looking out for health, only money. I argued until I literally couldn't take it. I had tons of printouts and info with me that he glanced over. He said "Show me some peer reviewed studies then we'll talk. Show me some real medical journal write ups, not self published."

Anyways, he said HCG is useless without HMG. Says it will only affect 2% total volume of testicles. And he doesn't get anyone's Test levels over 500 bc there are no health benefits past that point. I was so pissed off.

Ugh nothing worse than time wasted with an idiot in a lab coat.

Have you still yet to find a good doc that knows a proper TRT protocol?

The only issues I have run into were costs of programs and that's on me. Docs and clinics I have worked with and talked to have no issue keeping a guys t levels at 1000 ongoing.

[TennTarheel]

Yeah, I actually do have a good clinic in mind that a fellow member told me about. It's pretty much the perfect scenario. I pay a 29$ monthly fee, and he just writes the scripts and has access to discounted BW, saliva tests, etc. I am now just trying to get set up with him. I'll have to stop my injections for long enough to be able to qualify for treatment. How long after my last test injection should I wait? I've only been on for 4 weeks at 150/week.

[kelkel]

Tenn why do you have to stop? Can't you just get current paperwork to them showing cause for TRT and switch over? You shouldn't have to bottom out first.

[MyteeJ]

Glad you have something lined up. $29 a month is great.

I agree with Kel - just take your baseline BW with you to show them original level. That's exactly what I did when I saw a Doc I considered switching to.

[TennTarheel]

I really don't know why this guy won't take my BW! It pisses me off bc he won't give me a good answer. He just demands that I get a saliva test done.

Maybe my trough levels are still low enough at this point to qualify since I've only had 4 injections?? I was thinking maybe at the two week mark after last injection, my saliva test may be low enough. The test is only 49 bucks or so but I just can't figure out why he insists on saliva. He can't make THAT much off that one test.

[MyteeJ]

IMO an MD that knows what he is doing with TRT would take ALL history into account.

You look like you are in shape so he may have skepticism with your condition. If I walked into a doc office today after 9 weeks of starting my program I might have difficulties as well.

I thought saliva tests were mainly for cortisol. No, he isn't making that much off you but he is running you around in circles. If this were my situation I would have placed an order with an online clinic by now and tell that endo to get bent.

Enjoy Thanksgiving.

[TennTarheel]

IMO an MD that knows what he is doing with TRT would take ALL history into account.

You look like you are in shape so he may have skepticism with your condition. If I walked into a doc office today after 9 weeks of starting my program I might have difficulties as well.

I thought saliva tests were mainly for cortisol. No, he isn't making that much off you but he is running you around in circles. If this were my situation I would have placed an order with an online clinic by now and tell that endo to get bent.

Enjoy Thanksgiving.

I guess I don't look like the typical Low T candidate, but like I said in another thread, there isn't really a "look" of someone with Low T. Hell, I supposedly have hypothyroidism as well but I don't really fit that bill either. Go figure. I guess that's where genetics and diet/training really come into the picture

[Sworder]

Try to see it from his perspective instead of calling the guy an idiot. I can totally see his argument and I support it. It's pretty simple and I don''t mean to frustrate you but why would you "need" to be over 500ng/dl?

From a medical perspective having low testosterone isn't considered a medical emergency. The main things that a liberal doctor will prescribe it for is sexual dysfunction or mental health issues. Even then there are other drugs that doctors may prescribe before resorting to a Anabolic Androgenic Steroid .

I am not trying to argue against you Tenn, I always try to see both sides of the story.

My preference lies congruent with yours, I wouldn't want to be on TRT if I was brought to 500ng/dl. I want to be at the high end of the range.

[TennTarheel]

No, I agree Sworder. I did agree with him that once at 500, the symptoms of Low T SHOULD be taken care of, unless there is something else going on. I guess this is where the difference of "therapy" and "life enhancement" lies. I feel there ARE obviously benefits of being higher, but medically speaking, the main issues would be solved. I'm definitely more a proponent of the "life enhancement" protocols as well.