Alright, so I have high SHBG. What now??

[oscar1990]

Hi there,


I have recently been agitated by the fact that every time I hit the gym I am not sore the next day or cannot do not feel tighter or leaner the next day which is seriously annoying. In the past, I thought I was always cruising around 15%, boy was I wrong.

My stats are 20%+ body-fat, Im 6'0, skinny fat and cannot put on an ounce of muscle not matter how hard I train or whatever. I have built a fair amount of strength over the last 18 months of training but have not changed overall in shape/composition. Worst possible genetics.

I have had a blood test curious to know if everything was ok, and I was apparently in healthy condition according to my doc. I noticed he mentioned that everything was in range etc etc. I asked for printed copy of the test results and noticed I had very high SHBG.

Furthermore, I researched that SHBG was linked to androgen insensitivity, low androgens, hypogonadism etc etc. I feel kind of furious inside and desperate in seeking the opinions and advice of knowledgeable people as to what I should do from here and why my SHBG is so elevated at such a young age.


I will post my results below for interpretation, lol.

AGE: 23 Years a month ago
TT: 21 N/MOL (8-29)
FSH: 2 I/UL (<7)
LH: 4.5 I/UL (<7)
SHBG: 53 N/MOL (11-71)
OEST: 83 P/MOL (<150)
TSH: 0.94 mIU/L (1.00-5.00)
FREE T3: 17.5 (9.00-25.00) I cannot remember what units FREE T3 was measured in
Free Testosterone : 51.5 N/MOL (25.00-120.00)

I hope I am not hypogonadal or likely to become hypogonadal. I really want to age successfully, hopefully without any TRT etc, however this may not be the case for myself. lol

I dont consider myself to be miserable or have low sex drive, however I do not have morning wood, spontaneous erections, strong erections, lifeless wang:less thicker and veiny lol, high body fat especially around glutes/hips, and low muscle mass and definition.

I know I dont need TRT or anything however I want to know why my SHBG is high and if the high SHBG is the only reason my testosterone is higher??? I also researched that high SHBG is associated with a low DHT level?? WTF!?

Opinions and advice??

Cheers

[oscar1990]

anyone??

[bass]

Oscar, edit your original post and add ranges, if you done more BW post everything with ranges.

[Vettester]

Start adding a regiment of Vitamin D3 if you haven't already. Check your level if you can, I suspect it's low. A protocol of 5,000iu/day is standard in many cases, or if your doctor is inclined, look at a script of Drisdol 50,000iu/wk.

Stinging nettle root is a supplement that is proven to lower SHBG. Read up on it, as it's not for everyone.

It sounds like you also need to get your diet in good order with more quality protein meals, less simple carbs and sugars.

BTW, your total test comes out on the ng scale at 604ng/dl, which is pretty decent. Take some steps to lower your SHBG, which will then make some noticeable improvements on your free testosterone levels .

[oscar1990]

@Bass - I re-edited it and added the ranges, my bad. I had another sheet which included major organ function, cholesterol etc I was told it was all within good ranges.

[oscar1990]

@Vettestar - I have been told a couple of times to use VIT D3 5000 to lower SHBG, however I want to know the cause of why its so elevated prior to opting for treating my symptoms. Also, I have heard VIT D3 blocks DHT, which can't be good.

[oscar1990]

Isnt 604-ng/dl quite low considering individuals who are below the 400 region sometimes utilise HRT.

[oscar1990]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...3940861&page=2

I just browsed that link and according to the results on there from several guys, im mid range. Some have better physiques and are leaner with lower T levels.

My diet is also in check: complex carbs only, meat, and eggs keeping it simple. I dont know whats up, but I do know that I do not feel as strong, toned and vigor as I did.

[oscar1990]

bump bump bump

[Vettester]

Do you have a current E2 sensitive assay? Would also like to see a complete lipid panel, CBC's (ALT, AST) to see how your liver function is. SHBG is synthesized in the liver, and there can be various reasons why it is on the high or low side. Mine is usually at/around 10 without any influence. Hyperthyroidism can sometimes play a part in it as well, so it would be wise to get a complete thyroid panel put together and investigate that a bit more.

[jrod04]

Just curious, would just vitamin D have the same effect or is it only D3?

[TennTarheel]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...3940861&page=2

I just browsed that link and according to the results on there from several guys, im mid range. Some have better physiques and are leaner with lower T levels.

My diet is also in check: complex carbs only, meat, and eggs keeping it simple. I dont know whats up, but I do know that I do not feel as strong, toned and vigor as I did.

Yeah, you're T Test is higher than some guys ever get any time during their life. Three times higher than mine right now. You should be able to put on weight WITH the PROPER diet. I can't count how many guys have told me they eat enough to be gaining good weight, but I then see their diet and its not near enough. Don't under-estimate how much it takes of the right foods to pack on quality mass.

[Sworder]

I have recently been agitated by the fact that every time I hit the gym I am not sore the next day or cannot do not feel tighter or leaner the next day which is seriously annoying. In the past

If you are not sore the next day at all you didn't do a good job in the gym IMO! If I go to the gym and I am not sore that is an indicator that I was being lazy or that I need to switch my routine.

[kelkel]

Examine your diet. Increase workout intensity. Eat more meats. Building muscle will increase T naturally. Supplement with creatine.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19741313

[oscar1990]

@Swoder -

If you are not sore the next day at all you didn't do a good job in the gym IMO! If I go to the gym and I am not sore that is an indicator that I was being lazy or that I need to switch my routine

I dont think you seem to get the point, I can train and whilst training (hypertrophy of muscles) e.g. bicep curls.. I cannot feel a burning pain whilst curling thus making it not feel like anything. And this is not a muscle mind thing. I dont know if its fatigue built over the years, but whatever. I know its not technique either. E.g. When I do pull-ups, it doesn't feel as good as it did.

In addition after workout, my strength would be ok, however it would feel like my muscle fibres were not worked really well. I do not know if this is a genetic, hormonal or exhaustion problem/cause. WHATEVER it is, IT IS ****en annoying. I will do and take anything to overcome that nuetral feeling. I havent had any pain in muscles for a while, plus no DOMS the next day after a workout.


Cheers for the response.

[oscar1990]

Yeah, you're T Test is higher than some guys ever get any time during their life. Three times higher than mine right now. You should be able to put on weight WITH the PROPER diet. I can't count how many guys have told me they eat enough to be gaining good weight, but I then see their diet and its not near enough. Don't under-estimate how much it takes of the right foods to pack on quality mass.

Hey man, I dont know whether to consider my T to be average from those results as its not quite a good sample. In addition, whats the point of having average T on paper if you have all the symptoms of low t?? I dont get it, its like a Catch-22, double edged sword almost.

In addition, my diet is pretty good and everyone has told me to correct my diet. My diet is on the ball brothers, people seem to not understand that. I think its the junior member thing I have going on. I have been training since the age of 20, 22 now and have been eating clean for 2 years straight.

My diet: meat in general.. with every meal I have at-least have a good source of protein this often includes diary protein where meat is not available that hour or time frame e.g. travelling etc. 1gram per pound of body weight is what I aim for or 10%less or more on some occasions dont really count. *40% Protein*30%Carbs and 30%FATS.

Meats: Tuna (canned) maybe one a day to get a easy protein source , organic chicken lamb beef or salmon and fish.
Overall: brown rice, brown pasta, wholemeal bread, peanut butter, tahini, avacado, honey, bannana, apples, garlic, olive oil, onion (1-2 a day), ginger, capsicum, corn, lettuce, parsley, tomato are the most common overall. As you can see bro's that is relatively above average in diet. Everything I have listed I have 1 a day in whole.

I also add in a nasty wholemeal burger once a week, usually chicken to balance everything out. If not burger, its usually a wholemeal light pizza with no cheese.

[oscar1990]

Do you have a current E2 sensitive assay? Would also like to see a complete lipid panel, CBC's (ALT, AST) to see how your liver function is. SHBG is synthesized in the liver, and there can be various reasons why it is on the high or low side. Mine is usually at/around 10 without any influence. Hyperthyroidism can sometimes play a part in it as well, so it would be wise to get a complete thyroid panel put together and investigate that a bit more.

Dont you mean, hypothyroidism when the thyroid does not produce or produces little amounts??

What should I check for in the thyroid panel? TSH T4 free and T4 free?

[oscar1990]

Examine your diet. Increase workout intensity. Eat more meats. Building muscle will increase T naturally. Supplement with creatine.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19741313

Kelkel, I have tried this the last 6 months man. Told myself its all in my head, I just need to change things. I did make changes to training routine, supplementing, and diet. No changes, just fat gain around chest, lower abdomen and lower back.

Dont know why, but I have a tendency to store alot of fat in the midsection of the body where the hips are placed. Feelsrealbad

[oscar1990]

Thanks for all the responses, theres not much I can do but only hope that things will change not that hoping for something will initiate change.

I have always been chubby as a kid from the ages 7-13, and was really overweight during puberty, I was averaging around 75-90kgs at the age of 14-17 at 5'8 ish. As time progressed I gained more weight. I probably had lower end hormones as a kid and furthermore put my hormones on a roller-coaster as a teenager because I did not know any better and now paying the price for it. I also did not have any assistance from my parents as they were always long-term travelling for work etc and eventually got divorced.

A lonely teenager with money in his families house being depressed about his dysfunctional and careless family is a very dangerous combination. I hope know one ever experiences that type of mental stress/state.

Anyways the point is, I ****ed up. As a young teenager I should have resulted to sports, dieting and supplements as oppose to movies, junk food, being depressed about my parents, smoking, worrying about stupid shit and stressing. Education and generally being aware is a very important aspect for any teenager whilst growing in my opinion. Nothing comes for free in life, we all pay a price at the end of the day just have to wait our turn.

[Sworder]

@Swoder -

I dont think you seem to get the point, I can train and whilst training (hypertrophy of muscles) e.g. bicep curls.. I cannot feel a burning pain whilst curling thus making it not feel like anything. And this is not a muscle mind thing. I dont know if its fatigue built over the years, but whatever. I know its not technique either. E.g. When I do pull-ups, it doesn't feel as good as it did.

In addition after workout, my strength would be ok, however it would feel like my muscle fibres were not worked really well. I do not know if this is a genetic, hormonal or exhaustion problem/cause. WHATEVER it is, IT IS ****en annoying. I will do and take anything to overcome that nuetral feeling. I havent had any pain in muscles for a while, plus no DOMS the next day after a workout.


Cheers for the response.

It's probably all in your head, hormonal problems at your age is VERY RARE. Why are you here? I mean, what brings you to a steroid /HRT forum? What drove you to seek these kind of forums? I have heard some people reading about hormone imbalances or MAIS and then they think that they have it. Most likely, you are not training properly and you don't know how to keep a diet because you are 20%+ in BF. Don't be quick to blame hormones, it's your diet and training that is off.

Typically an indication from low T while working out would be that you would be slow to recover i.e. your muscles would be sore for a long time! I would suggest getting a personal trainer and adjusting your diet as per Kelkel's recommendation.

[oscar1990]

It's probably all in your head, hormonal problems at your age is VERY RARE. Why are you here? I mean, what brings you to a steroid /HRT forum? What drove you to seek these kind of forums? I have heard some people reading about hormone imbalances or MAIS and then they think that they have it. Most likely, you are not training properly and you don't know how to keep a diet because you are 20%+ in BF. Don't be quick to blame hormones, it's your diet and training that is off.

Typically an indication from low T while working out would be that you would be slow to recover i.e. your muscles would be sore for a long time! I would suggest getting a personal trainer and adjusting your diet as per Kelkel's recommendation.

The reason why I initially signed up was because I wanted opinions on my hormone panel. Esp because I had high SHBG > Hypogonadism > etc.

In my first year of training, I was very slow to recover. E.g I would probably take 1-2 days to recover, mostly 1 whole day after training. So one day on and one day off sort of thing.

MAIS-I dont think I have it. I can grow a full beard plus I have full body hair excluding back and shoulders, however I have heard hair is not such a good indication of Testosterone or DHT.. ??

[oscar1990]

Maybe I think I have low-t which is causing low-t..? I doubt it though.. I think its more of my predisposed genetics, however I will take everything into consideration prior to jumping to conclusions.

[Sworder]

Yes, I understand but I am looking for what drove you to get the hormone panel and how you found that this may be a causation?

You don't have low TT, look at your results.

If you really believe that you have some "predisposed genetic" issue you can go get tested for that. I know a guy that will do it for you, it's expensive but considering the gravity of it. It should be worth the money, if you really believe that.

I think you just have a bad diet and that your training program. Nobody loses fat over night it's a struggle and take a lot of time and dedication. If you would post EVERYTHING you ate yesterday I am sure it wasn't that healthy and not on the track to be losing any fat.

I don't mean to be rude, and although your bloodwork isn't complete but I think it's all in your head.

If you still want to pursue that there is something hormonally or genetically holding you back. Get the testing done!

[TennTarheel]

Testosterone is definitely not the issue. I hope you are understanding that. Like I said, I know tons of people that eat "healthy" foods like you listed, but they still have a shitty diet that doesn't fit their goals. Then they wonder why they aren't getting results.

The whole "soreness" thing is zero indicator of Test levels. Like I think Kel stated above, guys with actual Low T are way MORE sore after workouts and for a longer time. It sucks because you just can't recover. I know you say you've been training 2 years, but that is still not that long in the grand scheme. You're still a Rookie, not in a bad way, but it takes a lot of experience and Trial n Error to know what does and doesn't work specifically for you.

Don't take any of what these guys are saying as insults. All the knowledge comes with research and experience. Lots of guys use the genetics thing as a rationalization for using anabolics to "even the playing field". That's sort of what I feel is going on.

Now as far as you having a rough life and what not, that sucks but I have been there as well and would bet my story would make you feel thankful. We are still so young with so much life left. Just gotta buck up and take your own life by the horns.

[Vettester]

Dont you mean, hypothyroidism when the thyroid does not produce or produces little amounts??

What should I check for in the thyroid panel? TSH T4 free and T4 free?

No, I didn't mistype, I stand by hyperthyroidism as a possibility. Based on your last TSH at (0.94), it would benefit to investigate it further. Yes, FT3, FT4, RT3 & thyroid antibodies.

[Sworder]

No, I didn't mistype, I stand by hyperthyroidism as a possibility. Based on your last TSH at (0.94), it would benefit to investigate it further. Yes, FT3, FT4, RT3 & thyroid antibodies.

Do you think that the possibility of hyperthyroidism is low considering that he is 20%+ in BF?

[TennTarheel]

His diet would be waaay off the mark then

[Vettester]

Do you think that the possibility of hyperthyroidism is low considering that he is 20%+ in BF?

Could be low, but his TSH score is a possible marker to rule it in. Hyperthyroidism and high SHBG sometimes go hand in hand. A qualified physician who can run and oversee the needed labs is the best bet, which then can rule it out if needed.

[Vettester]

The OP keeps mentioning hypothyroidism ... I don't see anything that would indicate that.

[oscar1990]

Testosterone is definitely not the issue. I hope you are understanding that. Like I said, I know tons of people that eat "healthy" foods like you listed, but they still have a shitty diet that doesn't fit their goals. Then they wonder why they aren't getting results.

The whole "soreness" thing is zero indicator of Test levels. Like I think Kel stated above, guys with actual Low T are way MORE sore after workouts and for a longer time. It sucks because you just can't recover. I know you say you've been training 2 years, but that is still not that long in the grand scheme. You're still a Rookie, not in a bad way, but it takes a lot of experience and Trial n Error to know what does and doesn't work specifically for you.

Don't take any of what these guys are saying as insults. All the knowledge comes with research and experience. Lots of guys use the genetics thing as a rationalization for using anabolics to "even the playing field". That's sort of what I feel is going on.

Now as far as you having a rough life and what not, that sucks but I have been there as well and would bet my story would make you feel thankful. We are still so young with so much life left. Just gotta buck up and take your own life by the horns.

I have a recovery period of about 1 day, however when I have time off due to uni exams etc once I result to training I usually end up really sore. But thats just a different story.

Btw, I am not trying to directly fall into the use of testosterone. I was just trying to address my symptoms and the possible causes. I have more motivation knowing I am natural. I also dont like the idea of needles and cringe everytime.

I appreciate your advice man, I will re-check my diet and post exactly what I am eating.

[oscar1990]

Yes, I understand but I am looking for what drove you to get the hormone panel and how you found that this may be a causation?

You don't have low TT, look at your results.

If you really believe that you have some "predisposed genetic" issue you can go get tested for that. I know a guy that will do it for you, it's expensive but considering the gravity of it. It should be worth the money, if you really believe that.

I think you just have a bad diet and that your training program. Nobody loses fat over night it's a struggle and take a lot of time and dedication. If you would post EVERYTHING you ate yesterday I am sure it wasn't that healthy and not on the track to be losing any fat.

I don't mean to be rude, and although your bloodwork isn't complete but I think it's all in your head.

If you still want to pursue that there is something hormonally or genetically holding you back. Get the testing done!

Sweet man, I appreciate your advice. I will keep this thread posted with my diet etc. Also, I will change my training routine and lifestyle factors.

[oscar1990]

I will post a photo of myself today, and post the changes to my calorie intake and foods.

Much appreciated.

[oscar1990]

http://postimage.org/image/50oa8byld/

This is a recent photo of myself taken on my week off. (5 days no training) - I was 80kg, 6'0 and im assuming I am sitting around 20%.

What are your opinions?

[oscar1990]

This is another one.

http://postimage.org/image/8qsieyztt/ - Another photo 3 weeks ago. 79.9-80

[oscar1990]

as you can see not much definition and muscle

[oscar1990]

bump

[Sworder]

I am starting to think you are trolling at this point.

There is nothing wrong with your body, it's fit and honestly I thought you would look like you were in the Tanner stages.

Anyhow there is nothing further for me to add to this, I am just repeating myself over and over. It is all in your head about the genetics/hormones. Go get the hormone panels done and the genetic testing if you really want to pursue this further. Most likely when you come back the results are going to be the same, they are NORMAL. I don't know why anybody has commented on this but your SHBG isn't even high.

[kelkel]

I'll add to the hyperthryoid aspect. It can cause people to lose weight due to a higher than average BMR. But, not all will lose weight as it depends on the level or degree of it. Other factors come into play as well. If a persons metabolism is up then appetite increases and can squash any weight loss from the elevated thyroid. Catch 22 sort of. If no caloric change then sure, weight loss.

Agree with the above guys as well. Get your testing done if it makes you feel better. In the meantime, work on nailing down your nutrition and exercise routine. It does not happen overnight. It takes years of dedication, effort and attention to detail to make progress.

[oscar1990]

Hey dudes, so I just saw your comments. Im not trolling and im glad you guys think im in fit condition. I will get some bloods done and repost them. I will get a full hormone panel along with other neccessities.

Kekkel and sworder I appreciate the advice and guidance. I dont think i will pursue the genetics test, only a full hormone panel along with other tests.

Btw, Sworder I think my shbg is elevated for my age. Just my opinion.

[Sworder]

Compared to the general population here in America you are on a good road to build your body. A lot of the guys on this forum use steroids to enhance their bodies so don't be distraught if you are comparing yourself to them.

Your SHBG is in range, there is nothing wrong with it. If you would be within the a couple points of the top you would still be considered "high end of NORMAL"

Good luck in your quest!