TRT/HRT for non-AAS users, generally otherwise healthy people?

**wannabeme** · 11-23-2012, 11:33 AM

Just curious - I know this is primarily an AAS forum - wondering if there are a lot of guys out there getting good treatment for low T caused just by age. I don't *think* I have low T - although I do suspect my wife may have something out of whack. My libido is off the charts high as it's always been, my muscles do respond reasonably well to lifting, but her libido has slowed WAY down, gradually, since our first kid 10 years ago. We have discussed it many times and it isn't anything to do with our relationship which is the best it's been ever - she just simply does not have that "drive" she used to. And, I hate to admit it, but it's hard not to get kind of insecure as a guy if it's always YOU who really wants it. She also is starting to admit and see how bitchy she can be for really no good reason sometimes. I'm 41 and she is 37, neither of us have been on any AAS and we are otherwise disease-free as far as I know.

I have read some fascinating accounts here of great therapeutic results - again just wondering - is this usually only required after AAS usage or from some kind of disease?

**kelkel** · 11-23-2012, 12:17 PM

Hormonal issues for a man or a woman can be related to diet, lifestyle, medical issues that effect hormone pathways (e.g. Thyroid, etc) and / or pathologies. Or very simply the natural aging process. AAS usage may contribute to altered hormonal values but that is subjective and individual. We all respond differently. Below is an example of a good female panel from the Life Extension Foundation:

•Chemistry Panel (Complete metabolic panel with lipids)
•CBC
•DHEA-S
•Estradiol
•Total Estrogen
•Progesterone
•Pregnenolone
•Total and Free Testosterone
•Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG)
•TSH
•Free T3

Good luck!

kel

**OdinsOtherSon** · 11-23-2012, 12:29 PM

Hey wannabe, please don't answer this question in a public forum unless you're comfortable doing so but is your wife currently using any anti-depressants? They can have a very negative effect on libido as well, for either sex. My wife is kinda the same. Once I get her "warmed up" she's GTG. LOL. But sometimes its a struggle to even get her to let me "warm her up." I feel your pain man...it can definitely make you take a second look at yourself.

KelKel is right....get her to take a blood panel. Might be an eye opener for her. Good luck man!

**wannabeme** · 11-23-2012, 01:00 PM

No, she is not on medication of any kind. We have good PPO health insurance - are those blood panels pretty standard or should we expect a doctor to say WTF do you want THOSE for?

**kelkel** · 11-23-2012, 02:16 PM

Unless you have a doctor who understands female hormones you may very well have problems. Most doc's just don't have a grasp of them so your best bet is to try to find a specialist. When it comes to blood work requested they should do what you want. It's your (her) health, not theirs and you are in charge of it. They are there to help. If they dismiss your thoughts and opinions move on.

It's a very good panel to pull. Check out the life extension site and read up a bit.

kel

**wannabeme** · 11-23-2012, 05:09 PM

Life extension site? CAn you give a link?

**Sworder** · 11-23-2012, 05:55 PM

I believe it's this one.

**kelkel** · 11-23-2012, 06:30 PM

lef.com

**HRTstudent** · 11-23-2012, 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by wannabeme

Just curious - I know this is primarily an AAS forum - wondering if there are a lot of guys out there getting good treatment for low T caused just by age. I don't *think* I have low T - although I do suspect my wife may have something out of whack. My libido is off the charts high as it's always been, my muscles do respond reasonably well to lifting, but her libido has slowed WAY down, gradually, since our first kid 10 years ago. We have discussed it many times and it isn't anything to do with our relationship which is the best it's been ever - she just simply does not have that "drive" she used to. And, I hate to admit it, but it's hard not to get kind of insecure as a guy if it's always YOU who really wants it. She also is starting to admit and see how bitchy she can be for really no good reason sometimes. I'm 41 and she is 37, neither of us have been on any AAS and we are otherwise disease-free as far as I know.

I have read some fascinating accounts here of great therapeutic results - again just wondering - is this usually only required after AAS usage or from some kind of disease?

I'm younger than you but I went on TRT because of what seemed like "normal" old age-itis. Couldn't attribute it to any drugs (took none) but when I look back I wasnt doing myself any favors by eating a relatively nutrient-poor diet most days and generally lived a modern-American lifestyle of limited physical activity, low sunlight, lots of desk work, etc etc.

TRT has helped in some regards, but it's been some good and some bad.

**Sworder** · 11-23-2012, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by HRTstudent

I'm younger than you but I went on TRT because of what seemed like "normal" old age-itis. Couldn't attribute it to any drugs (took none) but when I look back I wasnt doing myself any favors by eating a relatively nutrient-poor diet most days and generally lived a modern-American lifestyle of limited physical activity, low sunlight, lots of desk work, etc etc.

TRT has helped in some regards, but it's been some good and some bad.

So you countered your body's response to low testosterone by supplying it with more instead of changing your habits?

I don't know if that would be the suggested methodology for people with low T. That's just my opinion, don't mean to aim that directly at you. Just the general methodology that I don't like.

**MyteeJ** · 11-24-2012, 08:25 AM

HRT's point is interesting in regard to the "American Lifestyle".

Relevant to this discussion, I was eating healthy, staying moderately active, but my desk job was priority one so working out for me suffered. After reaching a point where the desk job was "exhausting" i got a T reading and saw that i was at mid 300's. Libido was shot along with all of the the other symptoms we discuss from low T. once I started my protocol, it helped me to work out more and I am motivated to eat near perfect now all of which has resulted in feeling the way I wanted to. As we get older, IMO we simply have to be more disciplined with diet and exercise if we want to perform similar to when we were in our 20's and 30'a.

Kel's suggesting to get blood work is the logical starting point. You and your girl may be in for a surprise.

**TennTarheel** · 11-24-2012, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by Sworder

So you countered your body's response to low testosterone by supplying it with more instead of changing your habits?

I don't know if that would be the suggested methodology for people with low T. That's just my opinion, don't mean to aim that directly at you. Just the general methodology that I don't like.

Agreed. That's the issue with all the commercials on Low T gels. Any guy that has a mostly sedentary, unhealthy lifestyle is enticed by it and thinking they need Test to "fix" the issue. Those are the ones that end up feeling that it isn't completely working for them or whatever. They decide to START living a healthier lifestyle after such a long time.

Also, it's sad to think that people think Low T treatment is only for people who have used AAS in the past or that this would be the only logical reason for having Low T. National Awareness has a looong way to go.

**louie2400** · 11-24-2012, 04:48 PM

I was diagnosed secondary hypo-(low T) about a year ago and just gave into treatment (just started clomid). I never did any AAS and have worked out consistently for the past 10 years (I'm 29) and have eaten extremely healthy for about the past 5 years, before that diet wasn't that bad either (no fast food, soda, etc.) Looking back I have been experiencing Low T symptoms for years, but they have gotten very bad in the last few years. So I haven't done anything to my body that I think would contribute to my current situation. My dad has low T too, so even though there is no studies or evidence to prove it, I think its genetic. I think some people have genes that are predisposed to endocrine abnormalities, just like some have a higher chance of getting cancer, heart disease, etc.

**Sworder** · 11-24-2012, 04:49 PM

Yes, and I am sure that $$$ has something to do with all those Low T commercials.. Just because the health industry has "health" in the name doesn't mean they give two shits about your health! They want your money! Insurance companies won't help pay for a "quit smoking program" which is odd because you would think that it would save them money. But if you are sick they are making more money!

Also, the whole health industry thing is more aimed at the insurance companies and paper pushers, nurses and doctors genuinely care about your health.

**kelkel** · 11-24-2012, 05:15 PM

Louie what was the exact cause of your secondary hypo and why couldn't the doc remedy it?

**SlimmerMe** · 11-24-2012, 06:21 PM

Howdy~

you and/or your wife might want to check out some of these threads....

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...!#.ULFkLxwU66Y

**louie2400** · 11-25-2012, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Louie what was the exact cause of your secondary hypo and why couldn't the doc remedy it?

My secondary Hypo is undetermined at this point. Finally decided I should probably get a pituitary MRI. I held off on it because when my dad was diagnosed secondary hypo he had a pituitary MRI and had some bad reactions to the gadolinium contrast dye they use. I figure if he's secondary hypo and his MRI came back negative for tumors, etc. then chances are mine will too and that its more a genetic problem. Why put heavy metals into my body and tax my kidneys if I don't have to. But I have since decided I should maybe get one done and am waiting to see if my insurance will cover it.

Other than genetics, the only other causes I can think of might be from 2 undiagnosed low grade concussions. I figure I might have got one in eighth grade when I got into a fight and ended up getting my head bounced on the concrete a few times, never knocked out tho, but did see "flashes of light". Another time when I got in a car accident and rolled my car on its side and smashed my face on the steering wheel. I didn't have any major injuries from the accident tho. So who knows why?

**wannabeme** · 11-25-2012, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by SlimmerMe

Howdy~

you and/or your wife might want to check out some of these threads....

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...!#.ULFkLxwU66Y

That is EXACTLY the page I had the browser on and handed the laptop over to wife, she was like yeah, maybe later. The intimacy frequency is a very sore topic between us, hard to talk about it without her getting upset. She just accepts that lowered drive is a part of life and I'm the one with a problem. Heck so did I until I started reading some of these very threads on the referenced page!

**HRTstudent** · 11-25-2012, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by Sworder

So you countered your body's response to low testosterone by supplying it with more instead of changing your habits?

I don't know if that would be the suggested methodology for people with low T. That's just my opinion, don't mean to aim that directly at you. Just the general methodology that I don't like.

Absolutely not!

I was living what I thought at the time was pretty good. I didn't even really drink soda! But I have learned a lot over the last year and ahalf or so about subtle things that were undoubtedly effecting me as well as the masses. Things like environmental contaminants, nutrient-deplete "healthy" foods, etc.

I knew I didn't get enough physical activity and sunlight, but I didn't know that that was probably far less than half my problems.

I also finally got to point where I really had to do something. The slow, insidious decline I was going through had to culminate with some major change I suppose...

**SlimmerMe** · 11-25-2012, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by wannabeme

That is EXACTLY the page I had the browser on and handed the laptop over to wife, she was like yeah, maybe later. The intimacy frequency is a very sore topic between us, hard to talk about it without her getting upset. She just accepts that lowered drive is a part of life .

Baby steps here too. Try to get her to read anything by S Somers or Dr Uzzi Reiss, "Natural Superwoman" especially. They are more main stream. This place has now become your territory and could intimidate her to get the process going. All of this takes time and fine tuning. And female hormones are much more complex. Like S Somers said, throw a little test towards a guy and he is happy! We have a matrix and finding the sweet spot could be beginner's luck or take quite awhile.