No test at 33

**NEVERBIGENOUGH** · 11-23-2012, 07:40 PM

I have done several cycles with success
My last cycle was 5 weeks 100 mg test 150 tren e
I had to stop lifting and stop cycle
I did not run pct
6 wks later I had bw done my test was 20
Test serum level 20 range 348-1197
Tsh 2.760 range 0.450-4.500
Dr wants me on test nut only rAn one test.
I am concerned about fertility.
I have zero shrinkage with the kids.
It's been 2 months since cycle dr feels I should have rebounded and thinks larger issue.

I am running pct thinking I could restart just typical nolva and clomid
Bt I am 2 weeks in feel like shit still. No drive no morning wood constant fog.
Ia am going to try and see and endo
I am almost at my end just gonna start the trt cause I feel horrible and I know the test will fix it just needed to know actual cause for piece of mind

**bass** · 11-23-2012, 08:58 PM

can you post the entire BW with RANGES so we can see the whole picture? and please edit your post and resize the text, just got a headache reading it! LOL.

**EZ E** · 11-23-2012, 09:16 PM

So you are 6 weeks since the end of your last cycle? You have or haven't started/completed PCT?

**NEVERBIGENOUGH** · 11-23-2012, 11:26 PM

sorry about that!!! Lol
My blood work wich part
My test serum was 20 range 348-1197
Tsh 2.760 range o.450-4.500
I didn't do pct I am now 2 weeks in nolva clomid Ed
My dr wanted me in trt but it was one test I was worried about fertility and she didn't say anything I just need to be steered in right direction.

**NEVERBIGENOUGH** · 11-23-2012, 11:38 PM

Do u want whole panel?

**Sworder** · 11-23-2012, 11:48 PM

please

**Vettester** · 11-24-2012, 12:13 AM

This is a difficult thread to try and wrap our hands around. Please be specific, articulate and objective. What is it exactly you want us to help you with? 2 labs??? We don't have much here, but maybe you can get us on the right track .

**NEVERBIGENOUGH** · 11-24-2012, 12:26 AM

Well I have bw print out.
I guess I am rely trying to pin point why my test is low.
I can type out my bw
But am just really concerned which steps i should be taking as far as why my test is at 20. 10 yr old girl has more test than I do
I am 33 5 7 215 15% bf
I typically run 8 wk test tren cycles maybe 1 or 2 cycles. Yr
This was gonna be first time with tren e. used a a lot.

Just trying to see if I shut myself down hard and or maybe I have always been low t
Really just what steps to take before I go on trt. Cause I am concerned with staying fertile.
I have zero sex drive
Constant fog
Can't focus
Tired lethargic
Sore joints
Testes in check still
Getting new panel next week printing out list and getting all checked

**NEVERBIGENOUGH** · 11-24-2012, 12:34 AM

Also part of my issue is one panel my test being 20 she hands me a script for test and tells me have a nice day

**SEOINAGE** · 11-24-2012, 10:49 AM

Does she know you have used aas before? Need to do a proper pct, or get a doc that can help u get restarted. Likely will need some hcg at start plus nolva clomid or some docs use other drugs. I would try that before trt, if for some reason attempts fail u can go on trt and keep hcg as part of your protocol to maintain fertility fairly safely. And there are some methods to get it fixed, stopping test if u have to or other compounds better than hcg.

**fit2bOld** · 11-24-2012, 11:10 AM

Hard to help out, you have been asked to post the bloodwork and other questions.Your being very vague. Your test is low because: YOU CYCLED AND DID NO PCT!!! Get your PCT going with some HCG as well.

Unless there is an underlying problem your not making us aware of???

**NEVERBIGENOUGH** · 11-24-2012, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by fit2bOld

Hard to help out, you have been asked to post the bloodwork and other questions.Your being very vague. Your test is low because: YOU CYCLED AND DID NO PCT!!! Get your PCT going with some HCG as well.

Unless there is an underlying problem your not making us aware of???

I'm not trying to be vague I will post complete bw later
I was honest with dr.
I am being as honest as I can on here there is no other issues in my bw except my test
I am going to make another appt get it ran again.
Maybe seems I am being vague cause I really don't know everything u guys need.
Believe me I have nothing to hide! My fiancé is pissed lol
I am currently 2 weeks in a pct nolva and clomid
I have hcg so I can add that.
I just have never had a issue prior to this. Just a little stressed out guys not trying to be vague just lost

**NEVERBIGENOUGH** · 11-24-2012, 11:52 AM

Yes dr knows my cycle history and last cycle but she feels I should have restarted after 2 months

**Vettester** · 11-24-2012, 01:43 PM

Here's the summary that I can go with here ...

-You did a cycle, but did not do a PCT.
-As a result, your HPTA is almost completely suppressed.
-You are attempting a PCT at this time; both Nolva and Clomid. *Note, I am not a PCT pro, but I don't know why you are using two (2) different SERMs? My suggestion is to refer to the PCT forum for better advise on a PCT protocol.
-Your symptoms (fog, lethargic, etc.) would be normal symptoms for having such low testosterone levels .

My personal thoughts are, I think you did a cycle that crashed you good (especially throwing a 19nor in the mix), and you should have been better prepared to rebound it with a proper PCT, including HCG at some point to keep you testicular function adequate.

Neither here or there, you have two options as I see it ...
1) Implement an effective and proper PCT, and 'hopefully' you will recover and get your natty back to normal (Again, refer to the PCT forum ... Swifto has some excellent threads and advise on this subject).

2) If a PCT is not successful at this stage, then getting with a qualified physician who can treat you for TRT will be necessary. I would want to see an MRI and all the desired blood labs (Refer to Kelkel's sticky, "Finding a TRT Physician") prior to getting committed, and to rule out other pathologies.

**bass** · 11-24-2012, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by Vettester

Here's the summary that I can go with here ...

-You did a cycle, but did not do a PCT.
-As a result, your HPTA is almost completely suppressed.
-You are attempting a PCT at this time; both Nolva and Clomid. *Note, I am not a PCT pro, but I don't know why you are using two (2) different SERMs? My suggestion is to refer to the PCT forum for better advise on a PCT protocol.
-Your symptoms (fog, lethargic, etc.) would be normal symptoms for having such low testosterone levels .

My personal thoughts are, I think you did a cycle that crashed you good (especially throwing a 19nor in the mix), and you should have been better prepared to rebound it with a proper PCT, including HCG at some point to keep you testicular function adequate.

Neither here or there, you have two options as I see it ...
1) Implement an effective and proper PCT, and 'hopefully' you will recover and get your natty back to normal (Again, refer to the PCT forum ... Swifto has some excellent threads and advise on this subject).

2) If a PCT is not successful at this stage, then getting with a qualified physician who can treat you for TRT will be necessary. I would want to see an MRI and all the desired blood labs (Refer to Kelkel's sticky, "Finding a TRT Physician") prior to getting committed, and to rule out other pathologies.

i think this about sums it up!

**NEVERBIGENOUGH** · 11-24-2012, 01:59 PM

Her first course recomendation was to run the test c 200 evey 2 weeks and see if my levels change. Regardless of my cycle history. This is why I came on here cause it didnt seem right if I was shut down or am low put me on trt wih out knowing real cause of my low t.
Some guys have told me go on trt and run hcg and enjoy life others say restart if possible
I will post all bw later today but believe I am not trying to b vague . Just let me know what else you need. Just lost here fellas

**APIs** · 11-24-2012, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by NEVERBIGENOUGH

Some guys have told me go on trt and run hcg and enjoy life others say restart if possible

First off, don't listen to "guys" you know. Run the proper PCT first and see what levels come back. I wouldnt start the Test 200 mgs e2w your doctor suggests. This will only raise your test levels artificially and will shut down your natural test production even harder. Find a qualified endo & go from there...

**Vettester** · 11-24-2012, 02:12 PM

We need ALL the labs. Just post them up when you have them.

BTW, your doctor's protocol doesn't sound all that inviting. Please do some reading here to understand half life, aromatizatin, methods of injection, protocols, etc. We are always here to help, but it is essential that you also do some research and studying so that you can develop your own knowledge.

**NEVERBIGENOUGH** · 11-24-2012, 03:27 PM

Thanks guys I agree with all of you and I know I screwed the pooch.
I will read on pct see and run proper pct and see if I can reboot.
I actuAlly asked swift he ask why not just go on trt.
I believe dr is just putting a bandaid on instead of fixing problem
I have goin to ask for referral and get new bw done. I will post all of it my old one and then my new one.
I will see endo.
Thanks for all your guys time so far.

**ironbeck** · 11-24-2012, 03:36 PM

I just hate to hear these stories and hope I never have one of my own.
Just would like to make a note you guys are very helpful, and love to see real responses to ppl in need..Good Job

**NEVERBIGENOUGH** · 11-24-2012, 05:54 PM

Thanks again guys I was pretty lost really upset but u guys helped !!!

**EZ E** · 11-26-2012, 05:58 PM

Too late to run the HCG , just finish your PCT and give it some time. Retest and see where you are.

**NEVERBIGENOUGH** · 11-26-2012, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by EZ E

Too late to run the HCG, just finish your PCT and give it some time. Retest and see where you are.

I know little late for hcg but I threw some in.
I haven noticed shrinkage but sure plumped the boys up

**M302_Imola** · 11-27-2012, 07:11 AM

OP, I commend you on not just taking the easy route and hopping on trt. I am about the same age as you and I have friends who are so quick to jump on trt without even thinking about fertility and the future. Obviously, you know you screwed up by not running proper PCT after your latest cycle but no use crying over spilled milk. Is the clomid and nolva you're using right now pharmacy grade or research chem? IMO, research chem serms are crap as you're not really sure what you're getting and the exact dosage. If you need pharma grade you might talk to your doc/endo and see if he will prescribe you some. So what is your proposed PCT protocol (dosages)? HCG is good to get the boys firing again and hopefully kicking LH into gear but this shouldn't be ran throughout your PCT, just at the start.

**NEVERBIGENOUGH** · 11-27-2012, 10:20 AM

Right now I haven't seen endo have to wait for my dr to do referral so far she been pretty good
I am running research chem seems like they are working. Running hcg 3 weeks then running the pct another 6
I found thread in the pct stickies and am just running
Nolva and clomid 60 100 then taper down.
I haven't always been Ble to get pharm grade pct and I get hcg from china l hve worked well for me . Trust me I want to tke easy way out !!!!!
But I'm trying to stay tough

Originally Posted by M302_Imola

OP, I commend you on not just taking the easy route and hopping on trt. I am about the same age as you and I have friends who are so quick to jump on trt without even thinking about fertility and the future. Obviously, you know you screwed up by not running proper PCT after your latest cycle but no use crying over spilled milk. Is the clomid and nolva you're using right now pharmacy grade or research chem? IMO, research chem serms are crap as you're not really sure what you're getting and the exact dosage. If you need pharma grade you might talk to your doc/endo and see if he will prescribe you some. So what is your proposed PCT protocol (dosages)? HCG is good to get the boys firing again and hopefully kicking LH into gear but this shouldn't be ran throughout your PCT, just at the start.

**M302_Imola** · 11-28-2012, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by NEVERBIGENOUGH

Right now I haven't seen endo have to wait for my dr to do referral so far she been pretty good
I am running research chem seems like they are working. Running hcg 3 weeks then running the pct another 6
I found thread in the pct stickies and am just running
Nolva and clomid 60 100 then taper down.
I haven't always been Ble to get pharm grade pct and I get hcg from china l hve worked well for me . Trust me I want to tke easy way out !!!!!
But I'm trying to stay tough

well when you do talk to the endo see if he will prescribe you pharma grade serms or at least clomid. Sounds like you are on the right track so stick with the plan and see what develops...hopefully your test and estrogen levels will get in range. Best of luck!