Long time lurker needs help

[suprarob]

Long time lurker. I took all your advice and went to my Dr and had my T levels checked. Sure enough they were low (250). She started me on Test 200 mg a week for first 3 months and now after new lab results have me at 100 mg a week injection. (My results were 900 Test and I think 35 free Test) So I begged for 200 mg a week and a product like Adex or Ari for possible Gyno and estrogen levels but she said no way. They are powerful female hormones. So not sure what to do.

Seems I have stopped growing. I put on about 15 lbs but no gains anymore it seems and since my appetite went up could be some fat but I do look better in the mirror. Not sure if gain stoppage is from Estrogen levels or not. She didn't request E levels but said mine were good since I don't have much belly fat. Hmm. I do worry about Gyno does worry me though and it seems my nipples are a little tender.



Any suggestions? They want me to do HRT for life but I also notice my testicles shrinking. Doc said thats normal with age. Wonder how she would feel if her breasts started shrinking lol. What do you think of going to 2 doctors at the same time and doubling up? Good or bad idea? She won't let me inject at home. Wants me to come in once a week. I'm cool with that but be nice to cycle off if necessary. At my age maybe best to keep going and not cycle? I have read my brains out and felt this was the best cycle for me,12 weeks on and 12 weeks off. I could be wrong since I am 52. Please analyse it as I respect your opinions.



Weeks 1-10

*500 mg test per week

*1/4 tablet **** per day (for testes)

*1/4 tablet ******** every other day (for Est)

*1 tablet ****** for hair loss



Week 11

*300 mg Test

*1/4 tablet ***** per day (for testes)

*1/4 tablet ***** every other day (for est)

*1 tablet ******** for hair loss



Week 12

*200 mg Test

*1/4 tablet ***** per day (for testes)

*1/4 tablet ******* every other day (for est)

*1 tablet ********** for hair loss



Week 13

*1.25 mg per day for hair

*1/4 tablet ******* every other day (for Est)



Week 14

*1/4 tablet ********** every 3rd day (for est)



So in conclusion I could stock up and not go get the shots for 12 weeks and then go back on it to stockpile it. But I risk losing the HRT. Or go to another Dr like I said and get more dose to pile up or just stay on it for life. Any suggestions?



Respectfully,



Rob





PS:A little history;

52

5 10'

170lbs before Test.

185lbs 3 months on Test 185

Goal 200lbs and age management

Very successful busniness owner

Married 32 years. Good sex life,better on Test but since she cut me back no wood in mornings

Worked out on weights on and off for about 15 years (I was 135lbs 15 years ago)

Since appetite has skyrocketed have been eating mostly clean and shooting for 40 grams protein per meal 5x's a day

Work out every other day

1 Chest/Biceps

3 Thighs

5 Shoulder/Tri

7 Back/calves

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Hello suprarob.

First of all, congrats on your gains.
Second of all, take a deep breath and relax. Rome wasn't built in a day.

You're concerned that your doctor lowered your protocol and you won't be able to make any more progress in the gym. With the new dosage you have the testosterone level of a healthy 25 year old. Trust me, with a good diet and exercise routine you will continue to make gains. (I've been on TRT for ~4 months with a lower test level then you and I'm still seeing all kinds of gains.)

Your doctor is trying to do right by you. You didn't mention what your test levels were on the original protocol. I would bet that they were supraphysiological. More is not always better with TRT.

You mention your testes shrinking. Since you are supplying your body with test, your testes stop making their own and i believe this causes the shrinkage. Hcg can get your testes back to their normal size. Some guys use it and some guys don't. My understanding is that most regular doctors don't prescribe Hcg while many TRT/anti-ageing cdoctors due.

You mention AI. Ideally on TRT, one shouldn't need an AI. A man's body naturally converts some test to E2. One needs estrogen to function properly. If one has an excess of test (supraphysiological levels), then more than likely an AI will be needed. Also, the fatter one is the more likely an AI will be needed.

You mention cycling and going behind your doctor's back to double your dosage. Don't. Not yet at least. Just give it some time and enjoy your 25yr old self.

Just my 2 cents.

P.S. What was your level at 200 mg/week?

[Pale1]

To be honest with you, 200 / week probably was too high. I know that's not what you wanted to hear, but it's not supposed to be a steroid cycle. Go too high & you're gonna start having sides. you're 52, you don't want that. I think using hcg with it is a good idea. (If it was me) I would acquire some on my own & use 250 I.U.'s two days & one day before your T injection. That will also add a little bump to your T levels. If you're due to have your levels checked, just leave the hcg out that week. As far as getting your estrogen levels checked, tell her you're feeling a little nipple sensitivity & push the issue a little more, although I would be surprised if you do have an E issue.

The above is just my opinion, there are others on here who I'm sure will give you much better advice. But I will address another issue that you brought up, & I am confidant that I will be giving you good advise here. The issue of you wanting to get to 200 lbs, & I'm assuming you want that to be lean too, right. You know, 200 lbs & lean is just not in the cards for everyone. I know it's not for me. Not at TRT levels anyway. You said you weighed 135 15 years ago, so you would have been 37 then. That tells me you have a small frame. I'll bet you would look diesel as shit at 5'10" & a LEAN 185. To further put that 200 lbs into perspective, Arnold only weighed 225 in competition shape, & he was 6'2" I believe. Frank Zane was well under 200 lbs, & I would hardly call him small. Add enough muscle to be ripped at 185, or even lighter for that matter, then tell me you aren't happy with your 52 year old body

[suprarob]

T was 250 before and at 900 after 3 months usage.

[suprarob]

Appreciate ya'll helping me put it into perspective. But I am a driven person and want to be the very best I can be. I have changed all my habits to improve my quality of life and its starting to show.

[suprarob]

After 1 month on T...



After 3 months on T...

[suprarob]

I know it doesn't look like much after 10 years + working out but having 3 sisters that weigh less than 100 lbs and two brothers at 150 lbs guess I should not complain. Small frame genes. Any suggestions appreciated.

[Pale1]

It looks good for 52! Most 52 year old men look like shit!

Now, with that being said, I still don't think you should fixate on a scale weight. Just train hard & keep the diet clean, & let that take you wherever it takes you. But, if you still insist on seeing that 200 on the scale, there's only one way to get there: fork to mouth

[suprarob]

Pale1 I wish this site had a "like" a post button. You dam sure deserve it!

Guess one advantage to being smaller framed is I aged well. Being married for 32 years to a very good wife probably helped too. I don't smoke,over drink and try to eat decent while treating people the way I want to be treated. PS:My face don't look as young as my body.

[APIs]

I'll take a difference stance here. I'd continue seeing this doc for the time being, but find another "qualified" male doctor ASAP & get rid of her dumb ass. She's only going to screw you up in the long run. IMO, anyone who won’t let you do home injections and will not even discuss HCG & AI's has no business administering TRT. Oh, and I'll say it again. Find a qualified Male TRT Doc. Women have no business dabbling in Men's TRT. Every story I've heard with Female Endos administering TRT to men only ends in disaster. My $0.02. I'm sure others will chime in...

PS Forget about the cycling until you're dialed in with your TRT under competent care....

[nyjetsfan]

I'll take a difference stance here. I'd continue seeing this doc for the time being, but find another "qualified" male doctor ASAP & get rid of her dumb ass. She's only going to screw you up in the long run. IMO, anyone who won’t let you do home injections and will not even discuss HCG & AI's has no business administering TRT. Oh, and I'll say it again. Find a qualified Male TRT Doc. Women have no business dabbling in Men's TRT. Every story I've heard with Female Endos administering TRT to men only ends in disaster. My $0.02. I'm sure others will chime in...

PS Forget about the cycling until you're dialed in with your TRT under competent care....

Nothing against female docs .. But.. Have to agree (unfortunately). My female Endo with a full MD didn't know why I should test Estrogen when I was on TRT! Scary stuff. I'm sure there are good female docs out there but I have not seen or heard of one for male TRT and im in this game over 6 years. Hope I'm wrong...

[suprarob]

I'll take a difference stance here. I'd continue seeing this doc for the time being, but find another "qualified" male doctor ASAP & get rid of her dumb ass. She's only going to screw you up in the long run. IMO, anyone who won’t let you do home injections and will not even discuss HCG & AI's has no business administering TRT. Oh, and I'll say it again. Find a qualified Male TRT Doc. Women have no business dabbling in Men's TRT. Every story I've heard with Female Endos administering TRT to men only ends in disaster. My $0.02. I'm sure others will chime in...

PS Forget about the cycling until you're dialed in with your TRT under competent care....

I was thinking the same. Not being sexist but she just doesn't seem to "get" it.

[TennTarheel]

So do you guys think there should only be female OB/GYN docs as well?? I'm not one to discount someone's knowledge and training just bc of sex. Don't get me wrong, if I had my choice, I would rather have someone who has "been there" but I think some of the women docs are the same as a male doc who has NEVER experienced the feeling of Low T.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

suprarob,

I think I may have been somewhat mistaken. Upon first reading your post it seemed to me that your test level was originally 250 and now after being on 100mg/week it is 900. But in you later comments it said that you were originally 250 and 200mg/week had you testing at 900. What is your level at 100mg/week?
Also what are the ranges for the free test?

[APIs]

but I think some of the women docs are the same as a male doc who has NEVER experienced the feeling of Low T.

Bingo. Sorry, but I just cannot see how a woman (trained professional or not) can even begin to understand or relate to what men go through & experience in their TRT journey. Aint happening...

[Pale1]

I read the original post the same way you did Deadlifting Dog.

Yes Rob, where does that 100mg / week put your levels?

[TMan96]

Suprarob,

Very impressed with your gains so far. I've struggled in that department while on HRT and wish I was seeing the results you are. I would really like to hear the details of your workout, cardio and diet.

Good luck in reaching your goals!

[suprarob]

I read the original post the same way you did Deadlifting Dog.

Yes Rob, where does that 100mg / week put your levels?

Actually she just started me on the new regimen 2 weeks ago. Scheduled for labs in 2 weeks. I will report back.

[Pale1]

Well, she may very well be bumping you up to 150 after the labs come in then. Lets wait & see.

[suprarob]

Well, she may very well be bumping you up to 150 after the labs come in then. Lets wait & see.

True.

When is the best time to do a 'lab"? The day before an injection? Are there things that can "skew" results?

[suprarob]

Suprarob,

Very impressed with your gains so far. I've struggled in that department while on HRT and wish I was seeing the results you are. I would really like to hear the details of your workout, cardio and diet.

Good luck in reaching your goals!

I got tired of "following a routine" about 6 months ago. Just not my style. So I go to the gym and do what feels right. I work out every other day. I rarely do the same exercise each week. If I feel my body has not recouped I wait an extra day.


1 Chest/Biceps

3 Thighs

5 Shoulder/Tri

7 Back/calves

I pick one compound lift. Warm up with about half what I would normally lift. I then move to what I think I can do 8-10 reps with till failure. If I fail at higher than 10 I move the weight up 10lbs or so to stay in the 8-9 range. I do about 5 heavy sets to failure. Then I follow up with the same weight I warmed up with to failure which is usually about 25. Then I pick one isolation exercise and do the same. Takes about 45 minutes. Now that I am older and more in tune with my body I can tell when I have pushed myself as far as I should go. Once I feel that I stop there. Hope this makes sense. Not conventional but then again neither am I.

As far as food just like I said. I shoot for 40 grams of protein per meal 5x's a day as clean as possible. Figure if I want to get to 200lbs then I need 1 gram protein per lb which would be 40 grams per meal.

Rob

[Wes201]

I'll take a difference stance here. I'd continue seeing this doc for the time being, but find another "qualified" male doctor ASAP & get rid of her dumb ass. She's only going to screw you up in the long run. IMO, anyone who won’t let you do home injections and will not even discuss HCG & AI's has no business administering TRT. Oh, and I'll say it again. Find a qualified Male TRT Doc. Women have no business dabbling in Men's TRT. Every story I've heard with Female Endos administering TRT to men only ends in disaster. My $0.02. I'm sure others will chime in...

PS Forget about the cycling until you're dialed in with your TRT under competent care....

AGREE 100% GET RID OF HER! women docs have no business being in mens trt. And the fact that she wont discuss hcg and ai's would really piss me off if it were me. This is your nuts and your tits on the line here!

[Pale1]

True.

When is the best time to do a 'lab"? The day before an injection? Are there things that can "skew" results?

Just before injection is what you want to do. Day of if possible. If we were talking about your naturally produced test, then yes, there are some things you could do to get it lower, but kinda hard to skew results in this case.

[TMan96]

I got tired of "following a routine" about 6 months ago. Just not my style. So I go to the gym and do what feels right. I work out every other day. I rarely do the same exercise each week. If I feel my body has not recouped I wait an extra day.

1 Chest/Biceps

3 Thighs

5 Shoulder/Tri

7 Back/calves

I pick one compound lift. Warm up with about half what I would normally lift. I then move to what I think I can do 8-10 reps with till failure. If I fail at higher than 10 I move the weight up 10lbs or so to stay in the 8-9 range. I do about 5 heavy sets to failure. Then I follow up with the same weight I warmed up with to failure which is usually about 25. Then I pick one isolation exercise and do the same. Takes about 45 minutes. Now that I am older and more in tune with my body I can tell when I have pushed myself as far as I should go. Once I feel that I stop there. Hope this makes sense. Not conventional but then again neither am I.

As far as food just like I said. I shoot for 40 grams of protein per meal 5x's a day as clean as possible. Figure if I want to get to 200lbs then I need 1 gram protein per lb which would be 40 grams per meal.

Rob

Rob, thanks for the info! Also wondering about cardio. What are you doing for that or are you only doing weights?

Thanks again

[suprarob]

I really don't do any recreational aerobics because I have cleaned carpets for 30 years. Cleaning 4 houses a day is like aerobics in my book. ;-)

[suprarob]

Oh and chase my wife around since I have the hormones of a 20 year old again.

[suprarob]

Met with my dr again and said no way I get an AI. (I asked for Arimidex ) So I have another appointment with a male dr set. How should I approach the subject with him?