Doc says ok to AI but no to Hcg because...

[suprarob]

...he says you don't need it for 150 mg or less a week on TRT. Said with low doses your only supplementing your natural production. Your thoughts?

[steroid.com 1]

He's wrong and doesn't understand HPTA suppression.

Any amount of exogenous Testosterone is going to cause HPTA suppression...it's a fact.

Now we're all different and the amount and time will be different for all...but eventually it will happen.

HCG will increase endogenous testosterone (for some and it's hit and miss) if one is Secondary and not Primary Hypogonadal.

Read the sticky on HCG I don't want to rewrite that all here...it will tell you all you need to know.

[suprarob]

He's wrong and doesn't understand HPTA suppression.

Any amount of exogenous Testosterone is going to cause HPTA suppression...it's a fact.

Now we're all different and the amount and time will be different for all...but eventually it will happen.

HCG will increase endogenous testosterone (for some and it's hit and miss) if one is Secondary and not Primary Hypogonadal.

Read the sticky on HCG I don't want to rewrite that all here...it will tell you all you need to know.

OK he is pretty open minded. But how do I explain it or persuade him?

[steroid.com 1]

Get three more posts and I will send you the info you need via PM.

[suprarob]

Get three more posts and I will send you the info you need via PM.

I'm in. :-)

[suprarob]

Get three more posts and I will send you the info you need via PM.

Was this meant to be facetious?

[HRTstudent]

Was this meant to be facetious?

you might need 50 posts to use the PM system, I don't think he was jerking you around.

as far as not needing hcg for his reasons, well, I don't agree. HCG is used to stimulate your testes while on TRT because TRT, even VERY low doses will supress your natural production. we don't really know the implications of this long term. the testes do a lot more than just produce testosterone .

nonetheless, many men do well on TRT without HCG and even then for some men HCG leads to no improvement or worsening of subjective well being. it's definitely not a drug that every reacts well to. it can also further exacerbate estradiol problems for those sensitive to this.

it might be worth trying, but the reality is not many docs know much about it. it is primarily a urologist's tool because of its use in fertility. not only that, but it's gotten a bad rap over the last year from the HCG diet craze, in which the drug was overprescribed for dubious reasons. FDA got involved and that very often deters doctors from even bothering with a drug.

for what it's worth, I would give HCG a clinical trial-run if my doctor wanted to, but right now I'm not on it. when I think about the long term effects of my testes being so dormant, it just doesn't sit well with me... it just goes very much against nature.

[junk2222yard]

For what it's worth, I would give HCG a clinical trial-run if my doctor wanted to, but right now I'm not on it. when I think about the long term effects of my testes being so dormant, it just doesn't sit well with me... it just goes very much against nature.

If it doesn't sit well with you having dormant balls, why aren't you on hCG ? Are your balls shrinking? I noticed ball ache and shrinking within two weeks of beginning T, but had to persuade my doc for the hCG. I am glad I did.

[steroid.com 1]

Was this meant to be facetious?

Check your IM and print out the document or save it and send it to your Physician and see if that helps you get the right care.

[asiandudexxx]

Is there any way someone can PM me that info? In the same boat as OP

[jasondd1]

My Doc also told me that at low doses of test that their would be no shut down. I told her that I still wanted HCG and she said your the boss and wrote me a script.

[steroid.com 1]

Read the sticky on HCG .

Also go to Dr. John Crisler's website All Things Male and print out his protocol on HCG.

[kelkel]

Absolutely amazing!

A never ending battle right G?

[bass]

its a shame that people like us (patients) have more knowledge about HRT than most doctors do.

[Rusty11]

Quick hijack alert!
What about a 51 yr old who's been on testim for 7+ months. T has gone up to 650. Nothing has shrunk. Is there a benifit for me to just get my own hcg ? I keep reading about it here, but don't know if it's something I need. Yea, I've read the sticky. Thanks...

[junk2222yard]

What about a 51 yr old who's been on testim for 7+ months. T has gone up to 650. Nothing has shrunk. Is there a benifit for me to just get my own hcg? I keep reading about it here, but don't know if it's something I need. Yea, I've read the sticky. Thanks...

Off the top of my head I remember in the sticky there are 7 or 8 numbered points for why to use hCG . Only one of them is "to prevent balls shrinking". So yeah, there may be a benefit for you.

That said, if you feel fine, and don't have a sneaking suspicion you are "missing something", I would be thinking "why tamper with things"? Many of us dream of feeling good with just one drug to deal with.

[Torqued]

its a shame that people like us (patients) have more knowledge about HRT than most doctors do.

And how screwed would we be without a resource like this forum!?

[HRTstudent]

If it doesn't sit well with you having dormant balls, why aren't you on hCG? Are your balls shrinking? I noticed ball ache and shrinking within two weeks of beginning T, but had to persuade my doc for the hCG. I am glad I did.

namely because my doctor is not comfortable with it. he's tried it before (not extensively) but had very poor results. he was a good enough doctor, and I was in a poor enough situation that this was not a deal breaker to me. I am also very aware that HCG is not always a good addition to HRT when it comes to quality of life, and that's why I went on TRT. some people hate the stuff... numerous docs who post online share anecdotes where it's just not that uncommon that HCG doesn't improve matters.

not only that, but the probable e2 problems I already have being exacerbated make me doubtful as to how much it could help. that doesn't mean I wouldn't trial it though. to be blunt, I will probably bring the topic back up with my doc within the next year unless I start to feel like a million bucks.

my testes have somewhat shrunk since starting TRT but I'm not a bachelor so I don't really care, first of all; but I also never had any pain or aches. that would probably make me a lot more motivated to seek a remedy.

I am kind of hoping that the clomid isomer in clinical trials proves fruitful. that would be ideal if it could maintain some testicular function.

[OdinsOtherSon]

its a shame that people like us (patients) have more knowledge about HRT than most doctors do.

Precisely why I'm here. Its very true and, yes...its a shame

[steroid.com 1]

Quick hijack alert!
What about a 51 yr old who's been on testim for 7+ months. T has gone up to 650. Nothing has shrunk. Is there a benifit for me to just get my own hcg? I keep reading about it here, but don't know if it's something I need. Yea, I've read the sticky. Thanks...

Dr. John Crisler's ideal protocol is daily gel plus daily 100 iu of HCG .

He believes that HCG goes further than just being an LH analog and in fact calls it a "sex hormone" that acts on certain parts of the brain to cause a sense of well being and increase libido.

For me, low doses more frequently should eliminate any elevated E2 concerns.

I love the stuff and think more men should be on it.

If any haven't yet...read the sticky...it's a good one

[Rusty11]

Junk, HRT, gd....thanks for the differing opinions. Now, I really have no idea what to do. LOL!! With the thought of vials, reconstituting, and pinning, I'm convinced I'll F something up. But this isn't my thread, so I'll shut up for now. :X

[junk2222yard]

Junk, HRT, gd....thanks for the differing opinions. Now, I really have no idea what to do. LOL!! With the thought of vials, reconstituting, and pinning, I'm convinced I'll F something up. But this isn't my thread, so I'll shut up for now. :X

Well you really have to ultimately be the steward of your own health, so just read up as much as you can.

Small disclaimer: I am new here and to HRT myself, and look to vets like gdevine and HRTstudent for guidance myself, so take anything I say with 2-300 grains of salt. (Though really my main point to you was just that the sticky does have the info you are asking about.)