Libido 101 - I want my libido and erections back. Can anyone help?

[Renholder]

Hello everyone,

After over 6 months on TRT, I'm feeling better, although I can't be certain it`s the testosterone . I have quit caffeine, which probably reduced my high cortisol, so that may be part of it as well. I felt like shit even with high serum testosterone levels , but maybe it's just been taking time to start working.

Sadly, my libido is still pretty much hit and miss. Mostly miss.

I recall 3-4 days in August. My flaccid penis was fat, I had morning wood and my penis usually fluctuated between a 30-100% erection all day long. Quite frankly, it was even more than I wanted. I was really horny as well. I even got wood in the gym and had to conceal my boner on the way home.

At this point, I had just started talking to a new girl I really liked and was excited about (her personality), so I thought there could be a connection. But it did not last. I still have contact with this girl and have met others, but nothing like it.

It happens that I have good days once in a while, but mostly, my libido/erection quality is off. I`m not sure if my libido or EQ is the same thing, but my erection feels weak and thin, even when it's fairly hard. Enough to perform intercourse, but not with confidence. It just does not feel right. There is usually some "action" when I wake up, but it's weak.

What are factors that affect libido?

- Low testosterone - From what I've read, testosterone is overrated as a factor for libido. This makes sense with my real life experience and observations of other men. I'm sure I never was a high testosterone guy in my youth (slightly effeminate), but I had a high libido and rock hard boners every morning that lasted for hours.

- Thyroid issues - I just finished a trial with T3 and it did not help. Some have said I should try T4, but I suspect it's a dead end.

- Depression - I don't think I'm depressed. At least not enough that it should affect my libido/EQ. If anything, I'm depressed because my libido/EQ is low.

- Stress - I used to be very stressed with a lot on my plate and a lack of sleep, but not for the last year. There is some stress in my life, but I doubt it's enough to wreck my libido.

- Cortisol - Mine was high, but I hope and think it's lower now. I quit caffeine and took phosphatidyl serine for a while. I noticed my flaccid hanging much better and fuller, but no noticeable changes in erections.

- E2 - It's hard for me to say it too high or too low E2 can be a problem. BW says my E2 is normal, but it's not a sensitive test. Personally I doubt that this is it, but one can never know.

- Brain chemistry/neurotransmitters - Dopamine, Acetylcholine, Gaba, Serotonine, phenylalanine, etc. Any clues here? I wonder if this is what I should be looking into. I tried 5-HTP for a few days, but did not notice anything. Maybe I should try again. Or try some other amino acid. I know another guy with libido issues who got great effects from 5-HTP.

I`m starting to get desperate. I`m 28, soon 29 and have not really had a sex life for the last years. It's not that I've not had the opportunity, but I've felt sick and have not had the capacity. My libido has been zero. Now, it's much better, but far from good.

Please help. I`m sure someone else can benefit as well.

Thanks very much!

Best regards,

Renholder

[Renholder]

I had pretty much written off E2 as being a problem, but after input from another forum, I have seriously started considering if that is where I need to look now.

The problem is that we don't have the sensitive E2 test here in Norway. It's simply not available. I've now learned that it is possible to test "normal" with the normal test you guys use in the US (which probably is the same as the one we have in Norway), but still have high E2 on the sensitive test.

I scored out of range on the E2 test twice (first when using HCG mono at 500 IU 3X weekly and second one week after my last Nebido shot), but all other tests are "normal" or even low.

My last test (one week after Nebido) shows:

Estradiol 0,15 nmol/l (0,06-0,14)

If I convert correctly, that is:

150 pmol/l = 41 pg/ml

Prior to that:

Estradiol 0,08 nmol/l (<0,18)

However, if the test is not accurate, can I rely on this at all?

This was one week after my last Nebido shot, so E2 was probably at a peak, but it seems it may be high.

Is it possible for me to adress my POTENTIALLY high E2 without a sensitive test? Could I just start with a low dose of arimidex and see where it takes me?

For some reason I always thought my E2 could be low. My lack of wood and libido has lasted for many years now and way before TRT (which I hoped would help), but perhaps there still is an imbalance between T/E.

Thanks very much for any advice, but also other pointers beyond E2 issues.

[sparverius]

As E2 rises from what's optimum for me, I first lose erections during sex. With higher E2, libido decrease is noticeable. Still higher and depression sets in.
E2 is just one of many factors that affect libido. And it's different for everyone. The E2 numbers that some people post here would have me ready to slit my wrists.

High E2 could be a factor for you, since your libido was good shortly after starting TRT. It takes time for E2 to rise under TRT, so yours would have been lower then. If you can get some Anastrozole it's not hard to test- take 1/4 mg and see what happens. If you feel better in a day, your E2 was too high for you. If you feel worse, it was too low.

[Renholder]

As E2 rises from what's optimum for me, I first lose erections during sex. With higher E2, libido decrease is noticeable. Still higher and depression sets in.
E2 is just one of many factors that affect libido. And it's different for everyone. The E2 numbers that some people post here would have me ready to slit my wrists.

High E2 could be a factor for you, since your libido was good shortly after starting TRT. It takes time for E2 to rise under TRT, so yours would have been lower then. If you can get some Anastrozole it's not hard to test- take 1/4 mg and see what happens. If you feel better in a day, your E2 was too high for you. If you feel worse, it was too low.

Thank you for your input.

I`m going to my doctor tomorrow to ask for arimidex and I think I`m just gonna try it and see what happens. I fear that my E2 may be too low as well, but I suppose that is quickly reversable with arimidex if I quit.

My only concern is that I had these issues prior to TRT as well, but I suppose my E2 could have been high then as well. Or that low testosterone was my issue then, but with testosterone fixed now, E2 became the problem.

Do you have any experience with driving your E2 too low? Are you able to dial in your sweet spot physically or do you need BW?

Thanks,

Renholder

[junk2222yard]

I've now learned that it is possible to test "normal" with the normal test you guys use in the US (which probably is the same as the one we have in Norway), but still have high E2 on the sensitive test.

Where did you hear this? (A link would be ideal.)

I am in Canada and we don't have the sensitive assay here either, but I am not convinced a sensitive assay is necessary. (Some of the tests here have pretty big ranges, and if the bottom goes low, I think it may be sensitive enough.) Still, I am seeking information to really draw an educated conclusion. Thanks.

[jwh7699]

This is a sticky from the top of the page, very good information on what you are looking for:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...w#.UMUuw4PAeSo

I would not go on Armidex until you have the correct blood work you need to make an informed decision. You don't want to push your levels too low, that creates just as much problems as being too high.

Good Luck!!

[Renholder]

Where did you hear this? (A link would be ideal.)

I am in Canada and we don't have the sensitive assay here either, but I am not convinced a sensitive assay is necessary. (Some of the tests here have pretty big ranges, and if the bottom goes low, I think it may be sensitive enough.) Still, I am seeking information to really draw an educated conclusion. Thanks.

It seems to be a controversial topic based on the answers, but I got it from here:

EDIT: I posted links, but they were not allowed. I seem to remember that linking to Crisler's forum was allowed. Anyway, it's on his forum. Two threads. One is the same as this started by me and the other is "Doc won't order sensitive E2 test".

[Renholder]

This is a sticky from the top of the page, very good information on what you are looking for:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...w#.UMUuw4PAeSo

I would not go on Armidex until you have the correct blood work you need to make an informed decision. You don't want to push your levels too low, that creates just as much problems as being too high.

Good Luck!!

Thank you.

I already read that link and that link pretty much renders the normal E2 test useless and I believe that's the same one we have here in Norway.

I can't get this test done since we don't have it anywhere in Norway, so getting real blood work is not possible.. I'm aware that going too low is not too good either and in the past I thought that could be the case, but I'm not so sure any longer.

Is it not possible to treat with an AI, super low dose, and then watch symptoms? If my E2 is high, I'm sure it's not through the stratosphere, but it may be elevated.

I don't have sore nipples, but I have reduced sexual function. I've also been surprised by being emotional lately. A few weeks back I actually cried (I was drunk which probably enforced it), without feeling that I really had a good reason to do so. It baffled me. This weekend I've also been slightly emotional and had teary eyes a few times (not crying), but this time I felt like I had a reason for it.

Regards,

Renholder

[junk2222yard]

Thank you.

I already read that link and that link pretty much renders the normal E2 test useless and I believe that's the same one we have here in Norway.

Well the E2 sticky has some additional information recently, and I have been doing some serious reading on this topic. There is some *anecdotal* evidence that there may be value in some of the "normal" E2 tests available outside the U.S. I am going to put together what I am finding in a thread (possibly the E2 Sticky) when I have time, to get some more feedback from the vets here.

[jwh7699]

There is some additional info found here:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread....#.UMZheIPAeSo

It talks about accuracy of the E2 tests.

What is your current TRT protocol?

Sounds like your Hormones are kind of in flux, regarding feeling extra emotional.

I have taken L-Arganine and I have found this helps with improving libido.

[joebailey1271]

I dont know if this will help, but i was on trt in the past, but got off for various reasons> Anyways i did not use any AI, Im sure my E level was high, my sex drive was high, but the reason I feel the E level was high is the fact that my face was allways red, red to the point of people allways asking me if i been fishing because i looked sun burned. My bp was wnl 118/60, so it was not due to that. I also was emotional, also had nipple sensitivity. The test dose i was on then was 300 a week. Ok so now after allmost 2 years of being off, im back on and only taking 200mg a week but with an ai this time, but now my E level went to low, low or no sex drive, weak noodle, dry skin, also did have some extra joint pain.

So after seeing it was low, i stopped all the ai, did a couple of extra shots of test, for a few days my sex drive came back, feeling good etc, but after 2 weeks of the ex test, the red face and nip sense came back. Anyways, i just put this put this on here to give u an idea of how important that e level can be. Now im trying to slowly lower the E level down, face is getting a lighter red andnip sens is pretty much gone. hope this helps.

[Renholder]

Well the E2 sticky has some additional information recently, and I have been doing some serious reading on this topic. There is some *anecdotal* evidence that there may be value in some of the "normal" E2 tests available outside the U.S. I am going to put together what I am finding in a thread (possibly the E2 Sticky) when I have time, to get some more feedback from the vets here.

I suppose that depends on the tests that are available outisde the U.S. The only thing I know for certain is we have only one test here in Norway which is used both for women and men equally, but with different reference ranges. For men, the purpose of the test is: "Differential diagnosis of gynecomastia ."

So, based on that, maybe the test only recognizes abnormal high values in men and not moderately elevated values?

There is some additional info found here:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread....#.UMZheIPAeSo

It talks about accuracy of the E2 tests.

What is your current TRT protocol?

Sounds like your Hormones are kind of in flux, regarding feeling extra emotional.

I have taken L-Arganine and I have found this helps with improving libido.

Current protocol is Nebido, a long acting ester which is supposed to be taken every 10-11 weeks. The last time I believe I waited 9-10 weeks and my E2 was just above the top of the range 1 week after the injection. It is said to not aromatize much. I took a new injection yesterday after 8 weeks.

Beyond that, I`m using Ovidrel (synthetic HCG ) EOD. I did a conversion between HCG and Ovidrel and no one knows 100% sure the correct equivalent, but it should equal 130-200 HCG if I`m correct.

I dont know if this will help, but i was on trt in the past, but got off for various reasons> Anyways i did not use any AI, Im sure my E level was high, my sex drive was high, but the reason I feel the E level was high is the fact that my face was allways red, red to the point of people allways asking me if i been fishing because i looked sun burned. My bp was wnl 118/60, so it was not due to that. I also was emotional, also had nipple sensitivity. The test dose i was on then was 300 a week. Ok so now after allmost 2 years of being off, im back on and only taking 200mg a week but with an ai this time, but now my E level went to low, low or no sex drive, weak noodle, dry skin, also did have some extra joint pain.

So after seeing it was low, i stopped all the ai, did a couple of extra shots of test, for a few days my sex drive came back, feeling good etc, but after 2 weeks of the ex test, the red face and nip sense came back. Anyways, i just put this put this on here to give u an idea of how important that e level can be. Now im trying to slowly lower the E level down, face is getting a lighter red andnip sens is pretty much gone. hope this helps.

Was your erection good with your possibly high E2? I`ve heard that it`s possible to have good libido on high E2, but that erections usually suffer.

Good luck with dialing in your protocol.

[joebailey1271]

Hey Ren, The erections was weaker than before i started trt when E was high, but alot better than when it was low. I didnt really like the increased sex drive either, it was kinda unbearable.

[junk2222yard]

It seems to be a controversial topic based on the answers, but I got it from here:

EDIT: I posted links, but they were not allowed. I seem to remember that linking to Crisler's forum was allowed. Anyway, it's on his forum. Two threads. One is the same as this started by me and the other is "Doc won't order sensitive E2 test".

Hi... what a PITA, huh? Can you send me a PM with the correct links, or maybe break them up like I am doing here with asterisks? Thanks! I will deduce the block of asterisks is the Crisler website that shall not be named, lol!

www***************com/forum/showthread.php?15746-ATTN-Quest-diagnostics-sensitive-E2-blood-testing-UK...

[jwh7699]

Renholder unfortunately I'm not very familiar with type of protocol you are on. My suggestion would be to post two different posts, one regarding your protocol and the other regarding getting E2 tested outside of the US.

You may get better responses that way. Best of Luck!!

[Renholder]

Renholder unfortunately I'm not very familiar with type of protocol you are on. My suggestion would be to post two different posts, one regarding your protocol and the other regarding getting E2 tested outside of the US.

You may get better responses that way. Best of Luck!

Thanks mate. I've had a few threads already, so I think I'll stick with this one.

I took my last Nebido shot this Monday.

Tuesday morning, I had some wood.

Today, I woke up early and had good wood for at least an hour. Could not really fall back to sleep. I`m not sure if I had wood when I woke up or if it materialized after I woke up. Should not matter though. It was good wood.

Could it be that my testosterone is increasing faster than the E2, such that I hit some kind of sweet spot the last two days? I don't notice that much of a difference in my body beyond having wood. Libido is pretty much the same.

In fact, I don't think I would complain about my libido as long as my erections are consistently good. That's what matters.

I also took HCG last night.

[Renholder]

Well, I got a prescription for Arimidex with my doctor.

I think I will start with 0,25 mg 3 times per week or EOD and see how I respond to it.