New Member with bloodwork would like a little advice

[rmarganti]

I am a 51 year old male with a history of anabolic steroid use for a couple of years in my mid 20's.

I purchased a basic hormone evaluation from Private MD Labs and got got my lab results back from my blood work last week:

Testosterone , Serum - 552 ng/dl Reference Interval - 348 - 1197
LH, S - 6.1 mIU/mL Reference Interval - 1.7 - 8.6
FSH, Serum - 4.1 mIU/mL Reference Interval 1.5 - 12.4
Estradiol 23.6 pg/mL Reference Interval 7.6 - 42.6

All other tests were within the refernce interval.

Even though a T level of 552 is in the normal range, maybe it's low for me? I have all the classic signs of low T (Poor recovery, low libido, poor sleep, loss of ambition etc.). I don't know if it was caused by my past use of steroids or if it is simply a consequence of my age. I should have had my free T levels and E2 sensitivity checked as well. I have an appointment with my family doctor on 1-2-13. I am going to insist he test my PSA, Free T-levels, e2 levels and sensitivity, LH, and FST levels. Basicly all the tests Dr. Crisler requires of initial patients according to his website.

I picked up a book by Dr. Eugene Shippen on treating low T levels (google it on Amazon). Shippen reccomends natural methods such as Zinc and DIM to raise T levels as a first course of action. He says it will usually be effective in males under the age of 50.

When the patient fails to respond to these methods or is older (50-60) he reccomends HCG as the next logical step since this type of protocol encourages the leydig cells in the testicles to produce their own testosterone. He reccomends Testosterone injections, gels, patches, pellets as a last resort. But claims even this last resort is preferable and healthier than living with low T.

Up until recently I have been able to stimulate my testicles and consequently my T levels with Tribulus and later DIM and Zinc. These natural methods are not as effective anymore.

When using steroids back in the 1980's, I used to use HCG when finishing up a steroid cycle to kickstart my gonads and remember the healthy effect it had on my balls and libido which is another reason I prefer to try this protocol first (hopefully I am diagnosed with secondary hypogonadism instead of primary). I was considering an HCG only protocol (if indicated by my blood tests) according to protocol advised in Dr. Eugene Shippen's book (250 MG HCG 3X weekly). If subsequent E2 levels rise I would consider using Nolvadex or Arimidex if needed. I had some gyno removed from under my right nipple about 5 years ago and don't want a repeat of that.

I did some poking around on various forums for information on an HCG only protocol for TRT, but most reccomend external forms of Test in conjunction with HCG. The few posts I did find on "Meso-RX" reccomended lower doses of HCG (250-500IU 2-3X wkly). According to what I've read the lower doses have less of a chance of having your increased testosterone aromitized to estrogen. As a matter of fact they said once the effacaceous dose of HCG was discovered, higher dosages would not increase total testosterone, it would only increase estrogen. Some MDs even claimed that dividing the weekly dosage of HCG into smaller daily injections tended to convert less Test to estrogen as well.

I purchased 2 - 5000 IU viles of Hucog HCG from overseas, but I don't want to start using it until after I see my family doctor on 1/2 as it might screw up any additional blood work he needs done.

What do you guys think ? I have an appointment for a physical with my family doctor on 1/2/13. Should I be discussing any form of TRT with him? Would an HCG protocol be reccomended or benificial to me?

I am only a 2 1/2 hour drive away from Dr. Crisler's "Mancave" in MI. I am considering a drive up there if things are not productive with my primary care physician.

[kelkel]

Hello and welcome to the site!

First, your levels are not bad at all for your age but it is all about how you feel. I'd take those levels in a heartbeat! Your on the right path with the additional tests needed. Take a look at the Finding a Doc sticky thread here for tests and compare those as well. Be sure you get SHBG, DHEA-S and Vit D-25 Hyrdroxy and a full thyroid panel as well.

Free T is important and where we arguably get the "bang for your buck." Are you aware that supplementing with D3 will decrease your SHBG and raise your free T level? Basically everyone is low and if your not already taking it consider maybe 5K IU per day. It's arguably the most important vitamin (hormone actually) that you can take. Also look into supplementing with micronized DHEA and pregnenolone as well. Both are in our hormone pathways and are important to maintain. Micronized is the most effective for absorption purposes. Check lef.com as all are micronized there.

Remember as we get older you have to fight harder to maintain the levels of a younger man. Most everyone eventually will be on TRT at some point if seriously interested in maintaining their health and longevity, but I'd avoid it as long as possible quite honestly. When it comes to HCG I just don't see where you need it right now. Maybe examine lifestyle and diet/nutrition as well as supplementation and I'd bet you can do just fine, IMO. HCG supplementation will eventually suppress your own production due to the negative feedback loop.

Again, welcome! Others will chime in!

kel

[steroid.com 1]

Agree with kel.

Also, get a complete thyroid panel run. Hypothyroidism has many of the same symptoms as hypogonadalism, which you are not, but can cause low testosterone serum levels.

Get tested for:

TSH
FT4
FT3
RT3
Antibodies.

At you age hypothyroidism is not uncommon at all.

[rmarganti]

Hello and welcome to the site!

First, your levels are not bad at all for your age but it is all about how you feel. I'd take those levels in a heartbeat! Your on the right path with the additional tests needed. Take a look at the Finding a Doc sticky thread here for tests and compare those as well. Be sure you get SHBG, DHEA-S and Vit D-25 Hyrdroxy and a full thyroid panel as well.

Free T is important and where we arguably get the "bang for your buck." Are you aware that supplementing with D3 will decrease your SHBG and raise your free T level? Basically everyone is low and if your not already taking it consider maybe 5K IU per day. It's arguably the most important vitamin (hormone actually) that you can take. Also look into supplementing with micronized DHEA and pregnenolone as well. Both are in our hormone pathways and are important to maintain. Micronized is the most effective for absorption purposes. Check lef.com as all are micronized there.

Remember as we get older you have to fight harder to maintain the levels of a younger man. Most everyone eventually will be on TRT at some point if seriously interested in maintaining their health and longevity, but I'd avoid it as long as possible quite honestly. When it comes to HCG I just don't see where you need it right now. Maybe examine lifestyle and diet/nutrition as well as supplementation and I'd bet you can do just fine, IMO. HCG supplementation will eventually suppress your own production due to the negative feedback loop.

Again, welcome! Others will chime in!

kel

Thanks for the D3 tip. I will try supplementing my diet with it. I've tried Stinging Nettles before which is supposed to have the same effect, but it seems to lower my libido and make my urine stream weak and more frequent. What's up with that? I've used a DHEA 1.5% lotion from gentlepharmacy dot com (I'm not allowed to use URLS as a new member). According to research I've done it's the best available, and reasonably priced. Since it is absorbed through the skin, it should buypass the liver. The package insert says it is 10x more absorbable than pill form. Package insert says for males to use 2-10 drops per day with weekends off. However 1 drop every other day seems to be adequate for me. I haven't used it in a while, but when I do my ehaculations seem more intense. However, I think my testicles are not as full when I use it, another wierd side effect. I've used pregnelone in a cream form before as well, but sometimes it will give me a coating on my toungue?

I am anxious to get my free T tested, maybe that wiil provide a clue as to what's going on.

Thanks for your thoughtful response and advice Kel. I am glad i found your forum and am looking forward to sharing with you guys.

[rmarganti]

Thanks gdevine. You've given me something else to consider.

After researching the symptoms for hypothyrodism I think you might be on to something. After looking at a list for symptoms of HT I noticed have a lot of the symptoms common with Low T such as lowered libido, overtrain easily and am wiped out by condensed brief resistance training, ringing in ears. However I have some symptoms that are exclusive to HT such as constipation, hard stools (I control with magnesiun supplementation), lactose intolerance, IBS, nodding off easily, requiring afternoon nap, sleep apnea, candida (on tongue), aching muscles and joints, dry hair, forgetfulness, foggy thinking.

I will share my symptoms with my doc on 1/2 and request the tests you reccomended.

Are you familiar with the treatment and side effects for this condition?

Thanks for taking the time to consider my post and the valuable suggestion you made on considering hypothyroidism as a possible cause.

[steroid.com 1]

Make sure to get Cortisol; want to rule out adrenal fatigue as well.

[rmarganti]

Make sure to get Cortisol; want to rule out adrenal fatigue as well.

Yep. I did some reading on that as well while researching the Hypothyroidism. Adrenal fatigue sounds like it would be tricky to treat. From what I'm reading they reccomend licorice root and 1 year of yoga and meditation (no resistance training). I hope my adrenals are ok. Guess I need to have all my hormones checked in ofder to rule out all possibilities. Thanks agin for your support.

[rmarganti]

Hello and welcome to the site!

First, your levels are not bad at all for your age but it is all about how you feel. I'd take those levels in a heartbeat! Your on the right path with the additional tests needed. Take a look at the Finding a Doc sticky thread here for tests and compare those as well. Be sure you get SHBG, DHEA-S and Vit D-25 Hyrdroxy and a full thyroid panel as well.

Free T is important and where we arguably get the "bang for your buck." Are you aware that supplementing with D3 will decrease your SHBG and raise your free T level? Basically everyone is low and if your not already taking it consider maybe 5K IU per day. It's arguably the most important vitamin (hormone actually) that you can take. Also look into supplementing with micronized DHEA and pregnenolone as well. Both are in our hormone pathways and are important to maintain. Micronized is the most effective for absorption purposes. Check lef.com as all are micronized there.

Remember as we get older you have to fight harder to maintain the levels of a younger man. Most everyone eventually will be on TRT at some point if seriously interested in maintaining their health and longevity, but I'd avoid it as long as possible quite honestly. When it comes to HCG I just don't see where you need it right now. Maybe examine lifestyle and diet/nutrition as well as supplementation and I'd bet you can do just fine, IMO. HCG supplementation will eventually suppress your own production due to the negative feedback loop.

Again, welcome! Others will chime in!

kel

I just got my most recent blood test results back. Free T was 10.3 pg/mL - for males aged 39-58 they say the range is 7.2 - 23.0 pg/mL. What do you think?

[rmarganti]

Make sure to get Cortisol; want to rule out adrenal fatigue as well.

I just got the test results back that my doctor ordered:

PSA 0.46 NG/ML - Normal Range 0.00-4.00
TSH 3rd Gen 1.20 UIU/ML - Normal Range 0.50-6.00
Cortisol AM 17.0 ug/dL - Normal Range 6.0-25.0
Free Testo 10.3 pg/mL - Normal Range for male 39-58 yrs 7.2-23.0

Free T and TSH seems to be at the lower end of the scale, while cortisol seems to be at the upper. Maybe this combination is what wipes me out after a workout, and is lowering my libido? I ordered a kelp supplement in order to get more iodine in my diet to assure my thyroid has what it needs to function properly. Maybe I'll start the DHEA drops again too in order to get my coritsol levels down a little. I am considering cycling periods of less intense workouts to try to alleviate some of my symptoms as well. I asked my doc about the HCG . He said he is not familiar enough with it to feel comfortable perscribing it, and would rather refer me to an endo if my test results indicated I needed to do something with my test levels. Any thoughts?

[steroid.com 1]

Free Testosterone is at the lower end of the reference range but probably normal for your age.

I don't see updated E2 on here?

Cortisol is fine here BTW.

TSH is exactly where you want it to be; suggests thyroid is not an issue but you'd need more blood work to make a more definitive assessment.

You look pretty normal to be honest.

Many things could be causing your symptoms besides something physiological.