I guess the hCG is working...

[Rusty11]

Quick personal info:
-51 yrs old, 6', 175, around 13-15%bf (holiday eating has taken it's toll...lol)
-9 months on 2 packets testim/day
-3 weeks 100iu hCG /day

Ok, well I decided it was time to go and get a sensitive e2 test (doc doesn't do this). I was worried that with the addition of the hCG it might be pretty high. No noticeable signs, but with 10 threads a day here about estrogen, I started thinking/worrying about this. While I was at it, I thought i would get my free/total test done, as well. The first set of bw numbers are from my endo's lab. The second are from labcorp, last week. Different labs/different ranges.

11/10/2012-done BEFORE application of testim:

Free Test 87.6 range: 35.0-155.0 pg/mL
Total Test 589 range: 250-1100 ng/dL
estradiol(not sensitive) 24.0 range: 20.0-47 pg/mL


1/3/2013-done 3 hours AFTER application of testim and 100iu hCG:

Free Test(Direct) 37.2 range: 7.2-24.0 pg/mL
Testosterone , Serum 1482 range: 348-1197
Estradiol, Sensitive 35 range: 3-70 pg/mL

First, I was happy to see my sensitive e2 at that level (I don't take an ai).
Second, can you guys give me some advice on the following options:
btw, while I feel good, I need to get things back to normal when I get my doctor ordered bw next month. He'll probably freak and take me off testim (yea, he's like that) if he sees levels like this.

Anyway, should I...

1. Cut out the hCG and continue on with the 2 packets testim a day. I'm not going to stop the hcg, so forget that!
2. Keep the 100iu hCG/day and go down to 1 1/2 or just 1 packet of Testim
3. Do 60-70 hCG/day and keep the testim the same...or...
4. Keep everything the same and stop hCG a few days before doctor's bw and do it pre-application.

Sorry, I know that's a lot of questions. It's a shame that my doc won't prescribe the hCG. But, I feel much better since i started (3 weeks ago). I know my levels are from different labs, so this may just add to confusion. Also adding to the confusion is the fact that one test is pre-application, the other is post application.
So, any advice/suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks,
russ

[steroid.com 1]

Quick personal info:
-51 yrs old, 6', 175, around 13-15%bf (holiday eating has taken it's toll...lol)
-9 months on 2 packets testim/day
-3 weeks 100iu hCG /day

Ok, well I decided it was time to go and get a sensitive e2 test (doc doesn't do this). I was worried that with the addition of the hCG it might be pretty high. No noticeable signs, but with 10 threads a day here about estrogen, I started thinking/worrying about this. While I was at it, I thought i would get my free/total test done, as well. The first set of bw numbers are from my endo's lab. The second are from labcorp, last week. Different labs/different ranges.

11/10/2012-done BEFORE application of testim:

Free Test 87.6 range: 35.0-155.0 pg/mL
Total Test 589 range: 250-1100 ng/dL
estradiol(not sensitive) 24.0 range: 20.0-47 pg/mL


1/3/2013-done 3 hours AFTER application of testim and 100iu hCG:

Free Test(Direct) 37.2 range: 7.2-24.0 pg/mL
Testosterone , Serum 1482 range: 348-1197
Estradiol, Sensitive 35 range: 3-70 pg/mL
Your levels are peaked because you applied your testim 3 hours before you blood pull. Did they draw blood from the same area you apply? Also, most men on a transdermal don't need to be worried about elevated E2 as they apply small doses daily and Test serum levels never really peak and wane like weekly IM injections. This is what you'd expect.


First, I was happy to see my sensitive e2 at that level (I don't take an ai).
Second, can you guys give me some advice on the following options:
btw, while I feel good, I need to get things back to normal when I get my doctor ordered bw next month. He'll probably freak and take me off testim (yea, he's like that) if he sees levels like this.

Anyway, should I...

1. Cut out the hCG and continue on with the 2 packets testim a day. I'm not going to stop the hcg, so forget that!
Stay on the HCG. Dr Crisler prescribes 100 iu's daily for his men on transdermals.
2. Keep the 100iu hCG/day and go down to 1 1/2 or just 1 packet of Testim
100 iu daily.
3. Do 60-70 hCG/day and keep the testim the same...or...
4. Keep everything the same and stop hCG a few days before doctor's bw and do it pre-application.
Don't change anything; your numbers look excellent.

Sorry, I know that's a lot of questions. It's a shame that my doc won't prescribe the hCG. But, I feel much better since i started (3 weeks ago). I know my levels are from different labs, so this may just add to confusion. Also adding to the confusion is the fact that one test is pre-application, the other is post application.
So, any advice/suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks,
russ

Russ, read the sticky on HCG if you didn't.

gd

[Rusty11]

Just popped in and sure enough, gd answers ANOTHER one of my questions. Thanks.
-Oh, the sticky? Yea, been read about a dozen times.
-I realize that Most men on transdermals don't have elevated e, I just wanted to be sure the hCG didn't raise it. And, I've never had the e2 sensitive, so I'm glad i finally did this test.
-Looking back, I should have had blood drawn prior to application, but I guess I just wanted to see my peak, but not good for comparison purposes. Dumb Me.
-So, if I just do my Dr. ordered bloodwork (in three weeks) prior to application, free/total T will be down quite a bit from the peak?? Just don't want to alarm my doctor with abnormally high levels.
-You really don't think I should stop hCG for a couple days prior to bw?

Anyway, thanks for the response.

Edit: I stayed away from draw area. I even swiped the area with alcohol before i left for the lab. Lame??? maybe.

[steroid.com 1]

At 100 iu daily of HCG you won't have E2 issues...too small of a dosage.

Don't apply your testim the day of your draw till after your visit...not that it won't change things much as your serum levels are pretty consistent.

Don't apply the testim to the area they will be drawing the blood.

Don't stop the HCG...

[Rusty11]

Gotcha. As always, thanks for taking the time...

[J DIESEL3]

Rusty If you swab the area before they draw blood that really won't do much.The needle that draws the blood will then be exposed again to the absorbed testim under the skin.

Like gd has said just never apply where they will be drawing your blood.

[Rusty11]

Ok....but I didn't go near that area. I learned that lesson a few months ago when my total t came back at 4400. Although, I'm not 100% sure that was the cause of the high reading
When I redid it the next morning, total t was440. Like maybe an extra zero was added

Anyway...I've always been careful and will continue to be so. Thanks for the reply.
Ps...I'm thinking of getting total t done tomorrow at labcorp prior to applying anything. Its only $40.

[Rusty11]

I knew I hadn't gotten any testim on the draw site. I went back to labcorp and got total t tested prior to application/injection. T came back at 848. Guess I'll cut back on the gel a bit. I know most here don't like gels, but it, along with hCG and d3, is working good for me.

[J DIESEL3]

That's great Rusty

You can probably shave off a half tube of testim now!!

[Rusty11]

Thanks DIESEL. Yea, so far-so good. I know a lot of guys are on gels for a while, then all of a sudden things go downhill. So, keeping my fingers crossed. And, cutting back 1/2 tube is exactly what I was thinking.

[EverettCD]

Good info as usual here, I need to see about getting on HCG on my own since my PCP won't prescribe it to me.

[steroid.com 1]

Good info as usual here, I need to see about getting on HCG on my own since my PCP won't prescribe it to me.

There are a number of reliable "research" sites where you can purchase HCG .

You need it...

Read the sticky on HCG and see peptide man dot com.

[EverettCD]

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[EverettCD]

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Will do ASAP GD. Thank you.

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[HRTstudent]

A peak level that's that much over top range doesn't really startle me that much. Having said that, I would lower the dose by maybe 25% and see if I feel just as good or better.

But all in all, we know the pharmacodynamics of transdermal gels put many people slightly supraphysiologic, but this is transient.

[Rusty11]

A peak level that's that much over top range doesn't really startle me that much. Having said that, I would lower the dose by maybe 25% and see if I feel just as good or better.

But all in all, we know the pharmacodynamics of transdermal gels put many people slightly supraphysiologic, but this is transient.

Yes....I put a bit less on this morning.
Ummmm...can you please translate that last sentence into English....lol.

Edit: I assume this means that gels can put you over the top. But, when you say transient, do you mean it fluctuates back down during the day?

[Rusty11]

Yea...I dug this thread up from the dead
Anyway, not that anyone cares, but I do so I'll post this in case any lurkers find it interesting.
So, it's been over a month on hcg and one week of dropping down to 1 1/2 tubes of testim. Holy Crap! This has made all the difference in the world. I've never felt better (maybe T level was a bit too high for me, I don't know). When I say better, I mean that at 51, I can 'get it goin' a couple times a day, along with a general feeling of well-being that Testim alone never gave me. I'm not sure if it was dropping down in Testim or whether the longer you are injecting hCG, the more benefits it gives. Either way, I'm happy. Ok. back to the grave with this thread.

EDIT: How could I forget....THANKS GD!

[EverettCD]

Good to hear its working really well for you Russ. Hopefully I will be saying the same in a month or so since I just started my HCG today.

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[Rusty11]

Glad you took the plunge. Piece of cake, right.
I was surprised to find out that the benefits increased as the month went by. I'm sure it will, or already did, plateau. But, that's ok with me. Good luck and I hope you experience similar or better results.

[EverettCD]

Piece of cake is right. The funny thing about this is, this is the first time I have given myself an injection but I have given hundreds of people injections & started countless IV's on patients at work (Fireman/EMT). Most of the IV's I start are on trauma Pt's so it's usually a 14g or 16g needle (looks more like a gutter nail instead of a needle) not the microscopic 28g I use for the HCG . Still a little weird for a split second injecting myself. But it's all good & I'm looking forward to seeing the benefits of the HCG.

[Rusty11]

Fireman/EMT...didn't know that. Big props for potentially risking your life everyday. Yea, if I was injecting a 14 ga needle, I'd be skipping the hcg . BTW, just in case this happens...once in a while I get a very small lump under the skin. I just rub it out or it goes away in an hour, or so. First time, I was thinking I did something wrong, but read that this is normal.

[junk2222yard]

Most of the IV's I start are on trauma Pt's so it's usually a 14g or 16g needle (looks more like a gutter nail instead of a needle) not the microscopic 28g I use for the HCG.

Kinda seems unfair that you use harpoons on other people, yet only have to use 28g on yourself! :P I know for damn sure I couldn't be doing this HRT if I had to use big needles. Even for Test I am using a 27g and doing it SQ. hCG for me is 29g.

[EverettCD]

Kinda seems unfair that you use harpoons on other people, yet only have to use 28g on yourself! :P I know for damn sure I couldn't be doing this HRT if I had to use big needles. Even for Test I am using a 27g and doing it SQ. hCG for me is 29g.

Lol. When we stick Pt's with the big bore needles they're usually FUBAR so the pain from the IV is covered up by other things or they're unconscious. I wouldn't be injecting my HCG if I had to use the big needles either lol. F that.

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[OLDANDWEAK]

Yea...I dug this thread up from the dead
Anyway, not that anyone cares, but I do so I'll post this in case any lurkers find it interesting.
So, it's been over a month on hcg and one week of dropping down to 1 1/2 tubes of testim. Holy Crap! This has made all the difference in the world. I've never felt better (maybe T level was a bit too high for me, I don't know). When I say better, I mean that at 51, I can 'get it goin' a couple times a day, along with a general feeling of well-being that Testim alone never gave me. I'm not sure if it was dropping down in Testim or whether the longer you are injecting hCG, the more benefits it gives. Either way, I'm happy. Ok. back to the grave with this thread.

EDIT: How could I forget....THANKS GD!

Hope that I can say the same in a couple more weeks. I have been doing the HCG for a week or so now and haven't moticed much difference so far. Hopefully it will kick in soon.

[Rusty11]

^^^I hope so, too. I noticed an "increase in size" after first inject. All the other benefits became noticeable as the weeks went along.